Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[HairyMaclairy]

Without bitcoin there is no crypto, no digital currency and no use case of blockchain technology.

To be fair, I think a few use cases for blockchain technology exist - like cryptographically reliable timestamping of certain transactions. The shipment industry could be an example, or the stock market and the clearinghouses behind the curtains, where strict timing and prioritization of trades could be made transparent. The only important property is that you can't touch a past block without invalidating later ones.

However, such an unwieldy, inefficient, slow thing as a non-permissioned, fully distributed blockchain, with PoW, ...well, then of course there would be no need. Except for bitcoin  

the problem is that the only thing that is unforgeable is the transaction history of the used decentralized token. the only thing that a bitcoin protocol can guarantee AND enforce is the genuineness of the token.  it cannot enforce anything outside of the protocol. they are called token because all they can do is represent.  the tokens can not be attached to any thing in the physical world. supply chains or transport chains cannot be trusted only because some software is used. a bad actor can always just betray the system, the software cannot enforce anything. the bitcoin protocol can enforce the the rules that make a bitcoin a bitcoin. this is a closed system. since it represents money (which is an abstract concept, that is why has so far reaching consequences) we get a money that is not forgeable, cannot be censored, etc, etc.  the bitcoin protocol could not represent a container or an egg to make it a "honest" egg or container.

Exactly this.  Blockchains applications which are not currencies are worthless because any extraneous data added to the blockchain can be fake.  Only currencies do not require anything to be added. 

[sirazimuth]

Dude... that has the word "crypto" in it.

Twice.  

It's gonna piss off JJG!

crypto crypto crypto


Cmon jay... gimme a batslap!   (No homo, I promise...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiMF6IBfcWE

Laurie Juspeczyk:
Hey, you remember that guy? The one who pretended to be a supervillain so he could get beaten up? What was his name..? Captain Carnage.

Dan Dreiberg:
Yeah he was one for the books.

Laurie:
You're telling me! I remember, I caught him coming out of this jeweller's. I didn't know what his racket was. I start hitting him and I think "Jeez! He's breathing funny! Does he have asthma?

Dan:
He tried that with me, only I'd heard about him, so I just walked away. He follows me down the street… broad daylight, right, screaming "Punish me! PUNISH ME!" I'm like "No! Get lost!"

Laurie:
What ever happened to him?

Dan:
Well, he pulled it on Rorschach, and Rorschach dropped him down an elevator shaft.

[Pause. They both start laughing]

Laurie:
Oh, God, I'm sorry, that isn't funny.

Dan:
Maybe a little

Jeezus Christ!! , My younger brother's name is  Rorschach!  And get this.... I used to beat him up for squealing on me!
Next time him and his wife are over for dinner, I'll be extra vigilant and I certainly won't call him an asshole.... because you never know....

[Biodom]

Without bitcoin there is no crypto, no digital currency and no use case of blockchain technology.

To be fair, I think a few use cases for blockchain technology exist - like cryptographically reliable timestamping of certain transactions. The shipment industry could be an example, or the stock market and the clearinghouses behind the curtains, where strict timing and prioritization of trades could be made transparent. The only important property is that you can't touch a past block without invalidating later ones.

However, such an unwieldy, inefficient, slow thing as a non-permissioned, fully distributed blockchain, with PoW, ...well, then of course there would be no need. Except for bitcoin  

the problem is that the only thing that is unforgeable is the transaction history of the used decentralized token. the only thing that a bitcoin protocol can guarantee AND enforce is the genuineness of the token.  it cannot enforce anything outside of the protocol. they are called token because all they can do is represent.  the tokens can not be attached to any thing in the physical world. supply chains or transport chains cannot be trusted only because some software is used. a bad actor can always just betray the system, the software cannot enforce anything. the bitcoin protocol can enforce the the rules that make a bitcoin a bitcoin. this is a closed system. since it represents money (which is an abstract concept, that is why has so far reaching consequences) we get a money that is not forgeable, cannot be censored, etc, etc.  the bitcoin protocol could not represent a container or an egg to make it a "honest" egg or container.

Exactly this.  Blockchains applications which are not currencies are worthless because any extraneous data added to the blockchain can be fake.  Only currencies do not require anything to be added.  

can be fake...maybe...not sure if 100% true due to decentralized oracles.
without going into too much detail, here is some info on the underlying problem and an attempt to find a solution.
https://medium.com/better-programming/what-is-a-blockchain-oracle-f5ccab8dbd72

I am not sufficiently math savvy to ascertain whether it is a real solution or not..js
it seems that bitcoin does not need that, but some sidechains might.

[Torque]

Without bitcoin there is no crypto, no digital currency and no use case of blockchain technology.

To be fair, I think a few use cases for blockchain technology exist - like cryptographically reliable timestamping of certain transactions. The shipment industry could be an example, or the stock market and the clearinghouses behind the curtains, where strict timing and prioritization of trades could be made transparent. The only important property is that you can't touch a past block without invalidating later ones.

However, such an unwieldy, inefficient, slow thing as a non-permissioned, fully distributed blockchain, with PoW, ...well, then of course there would be no need. Except for bitcoin  

the problem is that the only thing that is unforgeable is the transaction history of the used decentralized token. the only thing that a bitcoin protocol can guarantee AND enforce is the genuineness of the token.  it cannot enforce anything outside of the protocol. they are called token because all they can do is represent.  the tokens can not be attached to any thing in the physical world. supply chains or transport chains cannot be trusted only because some software is used. a bad actor can always just betray the system, the software cannot enforce anything. the bitcoin protocol can enforce the the rules that make a bitcoin a bitcoin. this is a closed system. since it represents money (which is an abstract concept, that is why has so far reaching consequences) we get a money that is not forgeable, cannot be censored, etc, etc.  the bitcoin protocol could not represent a container or an egg to make it a "honest" egg or container.

Yep...I think of all the millions of $$$ paid by corporations all over the world to so-called "Blockchain consultants", and after 4-6 months of going round and round internally with them of how said corp could possibly "leverage blockchain", the reality sinks in as they come to this exact conclusion.

And then suddenly they realize all the money they wasted on this crap, as they sunset the Blockchain pilot project.  

[cAPSLOCK]

Dude... that has the word "crypto" in it.

Twice. 

It's gonna piss off JJG!

crypto crypto crypto


Cmon jay... gimme a batslap!   (No homo, I promise...)

Monero is what you thought you were buying when you bought bitcoin!

(I am ready for my batslap)

[sirazimuth]

Damn!..... Harpoon Dunkin Dozen...coffee porter, dunkin pumpkin, boston kreme, jelly donut ipa

These limited edition 12 packs get me every time.
I'm gonna have a headache tomorrow....

GO BITCOIN

[d_eddie]

Exactly this.  Blockchains applications which are not currencies are worthless because any extraneous data added to the blockchain can be fake.  Only currencies do not require anything to be added.  

can be fake...maybe...not sure if 100% true due to decentralized oracles.
without going into too much detail, here is some info on the underlying problem and an attempt to find a solution.
https://medium.com/better-programming/what-is-a-blockchain-oracle-f5ccab8dbd72

I am not sufficiently math savvy to ascertain whether it is a real solution or not..js
it seems that bitcoin does not need that, but some sidechains might.

Assassination markets surely do.

I discovered an article while researching bitcoin, some time before buying my first. When I first read it, bitcoin was very young (I think the article itself predates Satoshi's public work) and believed to be practically anonymous. The fact that it isn't anonymous is not actually relevant as long as other private coins exist, or privacy can be enhanced with add-ons.

There was no Wikipedia article on assassination markets then, but the revolutionary implications of this idea struck a chord. I had a flash of Bitcoin's potential to change the world, finance apart.

Here's the article, still in its original form: Assassination Politics.

[BobLawblaw]

[d_eddie]

Exactly this.  Blockchains applications which are not currencies are worthless because any extraneous data added to the blockchain can be fake.  Only currencies do not require anything to be added. 

Not necessarily worthless. You can add a fake piece of information, but it's timestamped. What matters more, it forces you to fake later info related to the first fake piece. You can't go back and fix the logs after the fact. This can be valuable even if the info itself could be fake.

[Hueristic]

Buy SpiffCoin


https://spiffcoin.net/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKpMEX9Ml2E

[Richy_T]

the tokens can not be attached to any thing in the physical world. supply chains or transport chains cannot be trusted only because some software is used. a bad actor can always just betray the system, the software cannot enforce anything. the bitcoin protocol can enforce the the rules that make a bitcoin a bitcoin.

This is the major problem I have with the hype behind Eth. I think it genuinely has some very interesting use cases but this whole "code as law" thing has the very real issue that there "X as law" deal is already occupied by people and not without good reason.

[Richy_T]

In theory I got some XRP from that airdrop a long time ago. In actuality, I can't remember at all how to access it and in truth, couldn't give a damn.

It did provide some hilarity a while back when I got into an argument with a (different) old friend who was relatively new to crypto where he was saying that it was the next big thing and I was saying it was a pile of crap and not even a crypto. That was shortly before it crashed and he suddenly went very quiet.

[Richy_T]

It seems one of the biggest reasons not to let people know about your stash is because any time it goes up, they start telling you you should sell it all. 

[Richy_T]

All those people who complained how Bitcoin could never become a big thing because it would be "unfair" that some people would be rich from getting in early have now had more than ten years to get in early.

[sirazimuth]

4 posts in a row....
 Dude, use the edit button. Just a friendly reminder. (my posts are always edited btw, otherwise I'd have like 10 posts in a row)

[Richy_T]

That's no fun.

It's a style choice.

I ran out of gas!

I got a flat tire!

I didn’t have change for cab fare!

I lost my tux at the cleaners!

I locked my keys in the car!

An old friend came in from out of town!

Someone stole my car!

There was an earthquake!

A terrible flood!

Locusts!

IT WASN’T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!

[JayJuanGee]

Dude... that has the word "crypto" in it.

Twice.  

It's gonna piss off JJG!

You are right... I overlooked getting pissed.. but I thought it was funny.. even though that is a lame-ass vague word, whatever the fuck "crypto" means of the sense of trying to act as if there were some kind of broader concept that goes beyond bitcoin and bitcoin is just one of the vague things contained therein... o.k... enough from me.. experienced WO should either be staying away from that word or at least pointing out that they got it from the interwebs and that it was somehow good to post here, in spite the use of such term.. twice, as you mentioned, cAPSLOCK

Might have to pour one out, just for funzies.

Dude... that has the word "crypto" in it.

Twice.  

It's gonna piss off JJG!

crypto crypto crypto


Cmon jay... gimme a batslap!   (No homo, I promise...)

Don't make me have to pour one out for you, too, biatch?

The reality that the n00bs do not understand is that they could just 100x their trades in bitcoin to have the same affect they get with altcoins because they're "too late".

The alts will crash 100x when bitcoin crashes and alts can only hope to go up 100x with bitcoin.

If you invested in an alt and you do not acknowledge that you are essentially in a ponzi scheme hoping you are in early and are able to get out before collapse then that's your gamble.

I'm not sure how to 100x your bitcoin trade but if you have n00bs telling you they're too late, just tell them how to 100x trade a few satoshis for the same experience as you.

Even though I appreciate something about your sentiment here Elwar, something just does not come off correctly about the whole point that you seem to be wanting to make.

[heslo]

the tokens can not be attached to any thing in the physical world. supply chains or transport chains cannot be trusted only because some software is used. a bad actor can always just betray the system, the software cannot enforce anything. the bitcoin protocol can enforce the the rules that make a bitcoin a bitcoin.

This is the major problem I have with the hype behind Eth. I think it genuinely has some very interesting use cases but this whole "code as law" thing has the very real issue that there "X as law" deal is already occupied by people and not without good reason.

Yeah, code as law... until we fuck up like the DAO and need to intervene. Then it's what a central authority says is law. Kinda antithetical to the whole crypto thing in general hey?

[bitserve]

ATH Incoming?

[Sayeds56]

All those people who complained how Bitcoin could never become a big thing because it would be "unfair" that some people would be rich from getting in early have now had more than ten years to get in early.

Nobody can stop BTC from flourishing and making Headlines all over the world because it is Digital Gold and potentially it can take over the  current financial system which is highly inflationary and not backed by any Real asset. Bitcoin is the great creation of Satoshi Nakamoto and he had predicted in 2009 what we witness now.