Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[fonzie]

[windjc]

Not true,

FINCEN already announced that they would go after the exchanges that haven´t registered about 2 weeks ago.
Google it.

They can go after any exchange that is based in USA or accept deposits and withdrawals on US soil.

Fonzie's having a hard time with this one. I guess he thinks Obama might issue a military invasion of Slovenia to take over Bitstamp.

Do you mind telling me why it is that non-US online gambling sites don't accept US customers?

Because USA explicitly made illegal that US costumers gamble on online sites and most of them have servers and domain registered with US companies.

USA did not make illegal that US citizens send money to Bitcoin exchanges yet nor have it issued any order for non-us exchanges to register with FINCEN.

If they do it, I'm pretty sure Bitstamp will do it, if they already did not just to be on the safe side as they have same issues as online gambling sites - servers and domain. They have enough money to do it.

Exactly. Blitz is being a knucklehead.

[fonzie]

I heard he´s workin for J.P. Morgan too.
Just like me and Jorge 

[seleme]

Blitz being Blitz 

[N12]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303563304579447020246651110

[KFR]

BTW I feel obliged to remind everyone that, for the most part, Europe continues to welcome Bitcoin and is generally taking a very progressive and open-minded position towards crypto.

It's also nice to see Kraken's growth - by far the best exchange around at the moment IMHO.

[JorgeStolfi]

there can be an infinte number of cryptocoins, any brand of them is just as good for commerce as any other, and there is no reason to believe that bitcoin will be among the ones that will succeed if they do succeed.

This has been refuted again and again. People want a secure, noninflating coin. Not evapourcoin. Not resourcecoin. They dont want coins for dogs or dope or sex. One coin. Not countrycoin, not citycoin. One international coin. They don't want a coin with more frequent blocks. Not premine. Not centralized. They want one coin.

Then why are the altcoins still thriving? Those who buy and use them are not people?

Those kinds of coins could be competitors. Maybe one other, maybe two.  [ ... ] Most probably, altcoins could ever only reach a small part of the total value.

And it is me the one who states mere opinions, without any arguments?

You can have your opinion about the likelihood of bitcoin surviving, but the fact are that there is no justification now to claim that they will die, and bitcoin will not.  The "first players advantage" and "network effect", if they were real, should have prevented the altcoins from starting. That they started and are thriving is proof that those advantages are not that significant.

On the other hand, some altcoins appear to have characteristics that bitcoin does not have; who can tell whether they won't be decisive?

(I hope no one will claim that "bitcoin is now too big to fail".  )

[seleme]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303563304579447020246651110

Not only are they subject to FinCEN civil monetary penalties, but knowing failure to register a money transmitting business with FinCEN—or fail to register with state authorities when required—can be a federal criminal offense."

Mr. Cohen said the Treasury Department is working with other governments and multilateral institutions to seek to draft consistent rules for digital currencies around the world.
He said the international Financial Action Task Force, which sets standards for anti-money-laundering and counterterrorist financing practices, will later this year release a paper that will update common definitions for digital currencies and lay out potential benefits and vulnerabilities for the sector.

Game/set/match Mr. Seleme.  

[JorgeStolfi]

I just wonder why you spend what seems to be HOURS every day here doing what you do.

Your potential story in the year 2020:

"I spent a total of 6 months of my life on a bitcoin forum, not because I owned any, but to tell people I didn't know that it wouldn't work for reasons I would cycle around, that people would point to the well established debunkings of."

Actually I am learning A LOT here (thank you to all who taught me). I even learned how to spell bitcoin in Chinese.

Please note that I do not start speeches against bitcoin here.  As I have written many times, I don't care if people invest or trade in bitcoin knowing well what they are doing.  I do speak out against those who try to "sell" bitcoin as good investment to the unwary,  because I believe that ist is a terrible one.  I have no respect for those who try to sell it as a hedge against inflation, a way to evade taxes and buy drugs safely, and other false things that "salesmen" still say -- when in fact they want the guy to invest (and hold at any cost) only to get the price up so that they can make a profit at his expense.

But I know that this is not the place for such speeches.

However, when people write things that I believe are wrong, why should I keep quiet?  I write my opinion, if it bothers you, there is the ostrich ignore button right there.

[seleme]

Careful guys, we have Robin Hood here 

[oda.krell]

there can be an infinte number of cryptocoins, any brand of them is just as good for commerce as any other, and there is no reason to believe that bitcoin will be among the ones that will succeed if they do succeed.

This has been refuted again and again. People want a secure, noninflating coin. Not evapourcoin. Not resourcecoin. They dont want coins for dogs or dope or sex. One coin. Not countrycoin, not citycoin. One international coin. They don't want a coin with more frequent blocks. Not premine. Not centralized. They want one coin.

Then why are the altcoins still thriving? Those who buy and use them are not people?

Those kinds of coins could be competitors. Maybe one other, maybe two.  [ ... ] Most probably, altcoins could ever only reach a small part of the total value.

And it is me the one who states mere opinions, without any arguments?

You can have your opinion about the likelihood of bitcoin surviving, but the fact are that there is no justification now to claim that they will die, and bitcoin will not.  The "first players advantage" and "network effect", if they were real, should have prevented the altcoins from starting. That they started and are thriving is proof that those advantages are not that significant.

On the other hand, some altcoins appear to have characteristics that bitcoin does not have; who can tell whether they won't be decisive?

(I hope no one will claim that "bitcoin is now too big to fail".  )

Yeah, I've seen better arguments from you, tbh.

The altcoin vs. Bitcoin analogy is probably pretty close to, say, silver vs. gold. In some hypothetical world exactly identical to ours, but in which *only* gold exists but no silver, speculative gold might have a higher market cap than in ours, but the thought is rather shallow anyway: it's simply human nature not to put all eggs into one basket -- cryptocurrencies will be no difference. The (much smaller) valuation of altcoins doesn't take a severe chunk out of Bitcoin's valuation, unless at some point BTC is replaced as the alpha crypto, but that's not the scenario you're talking about.

[fotosonics]

Would you mind telling me why this is important right now? Do you have some relevant info about US blocking wires to Bitstamp that you want to share with us? No? Ok, then f**k off.

I understand the *possibilities that exist, but the US also has online gambling laws that are different than bitcoin laws, especially as bitcoin has few laws.

If Bitstamp one day in the future doesnt accept US money, then some exchange in NY or SF will. Big f**king deal.

See my post above. It's not the US that is directly blocking wires, it's "Due to current US Securities regulations" which also scare away bitcoin ventures from accepting US investment so they can't be held liable.

This is the first direct evidence I've seen that US regulation hurts bitcoin.

Did you receive that email today?

Just yesterday.

[windjc]

Would you mind telling me why this is important right now? Do you have some relevant info about US blocking wires to Bitstamp that you want to share with us? No? Ok, then f**k off.

I understand the *possibilities that exist, but the US also has online gambling laws that are different than bitcoin laws, especially as bitcoin has few laws.

If Bitstamp one day in the future doesnt accept US money, then some exchange in NY or SF will. Big f**king deal.

See my post above. It's not the US that is directly blocking wires, it's "Due to current US Securities regulations" which also scare away bitcoin ventures from accepting US investment so they can't be held liable.

This is the first direct evidence I've seen that US regulation hurts bitcoin.

Did you receive that email today?

Just yesterday.

When did you register and/or invest with them?

[Hen0xyd]

Pretty sticky to 500 with a classic weekend drop (and retesting 470 as I'm writing).

Some movement next week would end new triangles and make everyone reacts like snowball and it would need relativly few bitcoins to move the price 50$ either way.

So current deal is we are going to see :
500 -> 400 going back to "MtGox is dead, Bitcoin is dead" bottom, serios
or
500 -> 800 going back to intermediate uptrend and previous bubbles patterns

For long-term bulls like me I think "HOLD and BUY more when price drops" is a decent and rational Leitmotif.

[KFR]

I just wonder why you spend what seems to be HOURS every day here doing what you do.

Your potential story in the year 2020:

"I spent a total of 6 months of my life on a bitcoin forum, not because I owned any, but to tell people I didn't know that it wouldn't work for reasons I would cycle around, that people would point to the well established debunkings of."

Actually I am learning A LOT here (thank you to all who taught me). I even learned how to spell bitcoin in Chinese.

Please note that I do not start speeches against bitcoin here.  As I have written many times, I don't care if people invest or trade in bitcoin knowing well what they are doing.  I do speak out against those who try to "sell" bitcoin as good investment to the unwary,  because I believe that ist is a terrible one.  I have no respect for those who try to sell it as a hedge against inflation, a way to evade taxes and buy drugs safely, and other false things that "salesmen" still say -- when in fact they want the guy to invest (and hold at any cost) only to get the price up so that they can make a profit at his expense.

But I know that this is not the place for such speeches.

However, when people write things that I believe are wrong, why should I keep quiet?  I write my opinion, if it bothers you, there is the ostrich ignore button right there.

More straw manning.  Who/where are all these salesman preying on your precious poor victims?  And why are all these poor people somehow prepared to take high risk speculative investments?

Pics or it didn't happen.

You can say what the hell you like of course but if you expect people to believe it, particularly given your track record, you're going to need to cite references.

[N12]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303563304579447020246651110

Not only are they subject to FinCEN civil monetary penalties, but knowing failure to register a money transmitting business with FinCEN—or fail to register with state authorities when required—can be a federal criminal offense."

Mr. Cohen said the Treasury Department is working with other governments and multilateral institutions to seek to draft consistent rules for digital currencies around the world.
He said the international Financial Action Task Force, which sets standards for anti-money-laundering and counterterrorist financing practices, will later this year release a paper that will update common definitions for digital currencies and lay out potential benefits and vulnerabilities for the sector.

Game/set/match Mr. Seleme.  

Where are they excluding non-US businesses from this regulation? It's the same thing as with the Bitcoin stock exchanges. As long as US customers are served, it is regulated by the US. But enough of this. None of us are lawyers I presume.

It is funny though how people here shout everything down that makes them feel uncomfortable. I also like how wind feels the need to insult me for it.

[seleme]

there can be an infinte number of cryptocoins, any brand of them is just as good for commerce as any other, and there is no reason to believe that bitcoin will be among the ones that will succeed if they do succeed.

This has been refuted again and again. People want a secure, noninflating coin. Not evapourcoin. Not resourcecoin. They dont want coins for dogs or dope or sex. One coin. Not countrycoin, not citycoin. One international coin. They don't want a coin with more frequent blocks. Not premine. Not centralized. They want one coin.

Then why are the altcoins still thriving? Those who buy and use them are not people?

Those kinds of coins could be competitors. Maybe one other, maybe two.  [ ... ] Most probably, altcoins could ever only reach a small part of the total value.

And it is me the one who states mere opinions, without any arguments?

You can have your opinion about the likelihood of bitcoin surviving, but the fact are that there is no justification now to claim that they will die, and bitcoin will not.  The "first players advantage" and "network effect", if they were real, should have prevented the altcoins from starting. That they started and are thriving is proof that those advantages are not that significant.

On the other hand, some altcoins appear to have characteristics that bitcoin does not have; who can tell whether they won't be decisive?

(I hope no one will claim that "bitcoin is now too big to fail".  )

Yeah, I've seen better arguments from you, tbh.

The altcoin vs. Bitcoin analogy is probably pretty close to, say, silver vs. gold. In some hypothetical world exactly identical to ours, but in which *only* gold exists but no silver, speculative gold might have a higher market cap than in ours, but the thought is rather shallow anyway: it's simply human nature not to put all eggs into one basket -- cryptocurrencies will be no difference. The (much smaller) valuation of altcoins doesn't take a severe chunk out of Bitcoin's valuation, unless at some point BTC is replaced as the alpha crypto, but that's not the scenario you're talking about.

The alt analogy is so stupid is almost not worth to answer on it.

If anything alts are making Bitcoin more scarce than it would usually be. More alts = less bitcoins on btc vs usd market = higher price than it would be otherwise.

There are thousands and thousands of bitcoins tied to alts trading as you can not buy most of them without buying Bitcoin first.

[JorgeStolfi]

Nah, I think you guys are going over the line. He is not paid nor he will be awarded for his posts from anyone, there's nobody who would pay him to do it, tbh.
He is just intellectual troll who find this as some kind of perverse challenge for himself, he's probably licking his lips now how he is doing us here.
I've never seen anyone spending so much time on the subject he thinks it's a failure though, sad state of mind really.

If so, he does it in a very unreasonable way, unprofessional, not in a way expected from a guy supposedly educated in the scientific method and discussion with peers. [... ] This way of working is exactly what is to be expected from a paid shill, a false grassroot which is called astroturfing [ ... ] or you are ignorant, nonlogical, without common sense. It is also possible. Locked into a tunnel view, due to defect working of your left or right brain, broken, stupid, willfully ignorant, afraid, traumatized in your childhood. Something.

Now, you and the other guys who keep writing this sort of stuff, do you do it because

  (A) you are frustrated with bitcoin price or something else, and need to vent your frustration on someone; or
  (B) you really meant to write that sort of stuff; or
  (C) you don't believe I can teach you a lesson you won't forget, and are calling my bluff?

If (A), fine, I am glad to be of service.

If (C), know that a man who knows his strength does not use it just to prove he has it.

[fotosonics]

See my post above. It's not the US that is directly blocking wires, it's "Due to current US Securities regulations" which also scare away bitcoin ventures from accepting US investment so they can't be held liable.

This is the first direct evidence I've seen that US regulation hurts bitcoin.

Did you receive that email today?

Just yesterday.

When did you register and/or invest with them?

About 3 weeks ago. Lots of reasons to move these days. But I'm not a fan of cold weather.

[seleme]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303563304579447020246651110

Not only are they subject to FinCEN civil monetary penalties, but knowing failure to register a money transmitting business with FinCEN—or fail to register with state authorities when required—can be a federal criminal offense."

Mr. Cohen said the Treasury Department is working with other governments and multilateral institutions to seek to draft consistent rules for digital currencies around the world.
He said the international Financial Action Task Force, which sets standards for anti-money-laundering and counterterrorist financing practices, will later this year release a paper that will update common definitions for digital currencies and lay out potential benefits and vulnerabilities for the sector.

Game/set/match Mr. Seleme.  

Where are they excluding non-US businesses from this regulation? It's the same thing as with the Bitcoin stock exchanges. As long as US customers are served, it is regulated by the US. But enough of this. None of us are lawyers I presume.

It is funny though how people here shout everything down that makes them feel uncomfortable. I also like how wind feels the need to insult me for it.

Well, when you want to see only what you like to see than it's not easy to see the obvious that is not in the line of what you want to see.

I am not insulting you, I used to say lot of times though that despite you doing good job as moderator it's laughing that you are moderator on a main Bitcoin forum as you don't miss a single chance to spread FUD and degrade Bitcoin, specially in downtrends. You've been manipulating people's minds to think Bitcoin is going in to oblivion at 60$ this summer, you're doing same now, pathetic but what could we do . I stopped doing that one though, just said Blitz is Blitz. Move on