Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JorgeStolfi]

By the way, the MtGOX heist must have been the largest single digital theft of all time, not just of bitcoin. Is that true?

Was it a single theft? Have you heard more about it than the rest of us? It seems to me that there's a lot of information still to come out and Karpeles is a compulsive serial liar.

Indeed, perhaps it is a case of mismanagement or embezzlement (coins transferred out of the company address by someone who had legitimate acces to the keys) rather than theft proper (by someone who was not supposed to have them).   MtGOX would not be the largest example of embezzlement, of course.

However, since in this case it may be impossible to know whether it was embezzlement or theft, perhaps it sould be counted as the latter.  The boundary is somewhat blurry anyway; simulated or arranged theft seems to be common also for cash and other valuables.

As for knowing more, I just saw an MIT study showing that the malleability bug exploit cannot have stolen more than 386 coins.  Therefore it is much more likely that it was either embezzlement or external hacking.  In the latter case, it seems a bit unlikely that the hacker managed to repeat the attack several times, stealing part of the coins at each time.  But with sufficiently messy administration, that cannot be ruled out.
[/quote]

We need to know the date of the theft to be able to put a dollar value on it ? Only then can it be considered the largest digital theft...

Good point.  But shall we evaluate them at the time of the theft, or at the time when the thief sold (or will sell) them?  

In absolute terms, [ MtGOX was ]not great, in relative terms high but in terms of actual events, probably pretty low.

Well, there is a long list of bitcoin heists (that has not been udated since November).  And that shows only major heists, generally from companies, that have made the news.  I wonder how many cases there have been of bitcoins stolen from individuals.  

[KFR]

Shall we do another list of fiat "heists" while we're at it?

You're giving hackers way too much credit.  Guinness, Madoff, Enron, Savings & Loan, Boesky, Kerviel, Minkow, Barings, Worldcom, Wall Street, Parmalat, QE, Amaranth, Long Term Capital, Brink's MAT, Breitwiser, Graff Diamonds, Dar es Salaam bank, SMBC...

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[chessnut]

Huobi is eating walls. 130BTC sell wall gone in a flash.

[JorgeStolfi]

Shall we do another list of fiat "heists" while we're at it?

There is a list of physical heists and robberies in Wikipedia, that someone posted already.

I suppose that few if an of those bank heists resulted in losses to the bank clients (unlike the bitcoin exchange heists, where the customers invariably take the loss.)

Even so, I wonder how much money the banks lose per year in physical heists, as a percentage of their total holdings.

You're giving hackers way too much credit.  Guinness, Madoff, Enron, Savings & Loan, Boesky, Kerviel, Minkow, Barings, Worldcom, Wall Street, Parmalat, QE, Amaranth, Long Term Capital, Brink's MAT, Breitwiser, Graff Diamonds, Dar es Salaam bank, SMBC...

The list above includes many cases of embezzlements and incompetent/reckless management.  Obviously, for these crimes it makes little difference whether it was bitcoin transfers, credit cards, or bank wires.  In the case of  Neo & Bee, for example, both may have occurred. 

My question about MtGOX is more curiosity than a bitcoin issue. What is the largest amount of money stolen from a single person or company by a cybercrime attack (unauthorized login, malicious software, phishing,  etc.) Anyone knows?

Also, do we know how much money was actually stolen/wasted as a consequence of a massive creditcard-data heist (such as Target's), and who took the losses?  (Yes, I know that it was not the card company.)

[BitChick]

Huobi is eating walls. 130BTC sell wall gone in a flash.

Do we dare post pictures of trains yet?  They haven't seemed to work as of late.

I did have a dream we were at $1350 last night.  I was yelling at my husband for not selling any at $1350.  But then he said, "The price is $5500."  I said, "that is half of what it was!"  I guess I can't do math while sleeping.  But of course, even in my dreams it is better to hold.  

[chessnut]

Huobi is eating walls. 130BTC sell wall gone in a flash.

Do we dare post pictures of trains yet?  They haven't seemed to work as of late.

I did have a dream we were at $1350 last night.  I was yelling at my husband for not selling any at $1350.  But then he said, "The price is $5500."  I said, "that is half of what it was!"  I guess I can't do math while sleeping.  But of course, even in my dreams it is better to hold.  

 
yup just when everyone thought they had learned their lesson about posting train pics, here comes the train.
you go first. 
may your dreams come true.

[JayJuanGee]

Huobi is eating walls. 130BTC sell wall gone in a flash.

Do we dare post pictures of trains yet?  They haven't seemed to work as of late.

I did have a dream we were at $1350 last night.  I was yelling at my husband for not selling any at $1350.  But then he said, "The price is $5500."  I said, "that is half of what it was!"  I guess I can't do math while sleeping.  But of course, even in my dreams it is better to hold.  

 
yup just when everyone thought they had learned their lesson about posting train pics, here comes the train.
you go first. 
may your dreams come true.

What we really need is a new poll. 

And, yep, a train would be nice, too... CCMF!!!

[silverfuture]

[xulescu]

image of train breaking wall

Once you see goatse you cannot unsee goatse...

[lynn_402]

What we really need is a new poll.  

And, yep, a train would be nice, too... CCMF!!!

Enjoy this chinese bullet train!

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[keithers]

That was a short lived little rally we just had. I would like us to be able to sustain at least $515 levels and then slowly grow upwards from there. Any rapid rises can never be sustained because there are always people waiting to take some profits off of the table.

[chessnut]

more is coming. lotsa support.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[QuestionAuthority]

Explanation

You wore me out last night ChartBuddy. I was seeing red and green stars this morning. 

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JorgeStolfi]

All seems to be quiet on the China front.

Huobi has only one option for deposit on their homepage, that "recharge card".  Withdrawal by bank still OK (24h)  Could not find that info for OKCoin.

The announcement on Huobi's page has not changed since the 17th, about reactivation of the recharge card pathway.  That on OKCoin is from the 19th, about an Android app.  There are several post on their internal forum from today with various client questions.

[windjc]

Huobi is eating walls. 130BTC sell wall gone in a flash.

Do we dare post pictures of trains yet?  They haven't seemed to work as of late.

I did have a dream we were at $1350 last night.  I was yelling at my husband for not selling any at $1350.  But then he said, "The price is $5500."  I said, "that is half of what it was!"  I guess I can't do math while sleeping.  But of course, even in my dreams it is better to hold.  

 
yup just when everyone thought they had learned their lesson about posting train pics, here comes the train.
you go first.  
may your dreams come true.

Why is it so hard to see that the market doesn't know whether is bear or bull?  We are inching up today on LESS volume than the move up yesterday.

At this rate we will fail to make a higher high this week, because buy volume will dry up at this rate. If we do not make a higher high, then we will confirm that we are still in a bear market.

At this point, basically people are just seeing what they WANT to see, because its completely unclear. But the trend for 5 months has been down, so the trend is my friend until confirmation of its death.