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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26384453 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
KeyserSoze
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April 22, 2014, 01:10:09 AM

My superstitious guess on Bitcoin price...


Figure 1


Figure 2

Before I start, if you haven't noticed, I know nothing about trading. I just thought it was fair to share my own superstitious guesses. I use terms like "wave" and "fractal" but I subscribe to no school of thought when it comes to trading, so take these terms at face value.

And I hope I'm wrong cuz I am mostly in BTC! DOH!

We all know "past performance is no guarantee of future results" however that's exactly what my erroneous guesses are based on. Why? Because of my frail human psyche. I am superstitious even though I know I shouldn't be. I'd like to think I am special and know something about the market that you don't. I like to look to the past to predict the future even when I know it is impossible. My momma just didn't love me enough.

Figure 1 is a 6-month view starting at the bubble which ran from ~$150 to ~@1100. Green arrows show dramatic rises; red shows severe dips.

Period A is the overarching rise and fall of that first monumental "pseudo-fractal". Period B shows the smaller rise/fall, and so on. I refer to a Period as "pseudo fractal" because I like to think there is some partially fractal essence to the way price reacts. This is a part of my superstition.

Period B is a more stretched out and flattened fractal of A. Period C is a shorter and flatter fractal of B. Which makes me wonder if Period D, which is 80% fantasy created by me and my friend Photoshop, will be another, flatter fractal of C.

The arrow coming off of D points to exactly where I began my fantasy price line. The addition is simply a trimmed copy of Period C pasted back in and flattened a bit more. I wasn't sure whether I should lengthen it or shorten it but I would assume it would be one or the other; either shorter because the market is reacting to each Period faster, or maybe longer because the market is so unsure whether it should buy or sell.

Anyway, from this guess concerning Period D, I would further reckon we'll see a slow downtrend until we get the sharper sell off ~May-June. I would think the extremes might be in the neighborhood of $300. I just hope it doesn't hit $266 cuz that could freak some old timers out enough to sell even further.

I would say it is then we would begin to see an extended flat period (my hand drawn Period E) because many speculators will be worn out. Folks who wanted to turn a quick buck will be gone. Folks who were new to Bitcoin and bought at $600-$1200 will be gone, unfortunately. Some businesses will have given up.

I would guess it'll be painfully slow during this time (as if it hasn't been low volume enough recently). Lots of doom and gloom, etc. People will no longer be screaming about losing money. Instead the laments will be "is it dead?" "How could it recover, there's no one using it."

I think there will be a "Period E" because of Figure 2. This shot is a 2-year period showing the long periods in between the $32 bubble to the $266 bubble to the $1100 bubble. The $32 bubble is off screen to the left a bit.

F2A (Figure 2, Period A) was about 15-16 months or so (you can't see all of it on the chart). F2B was about 6 months long.

How long will the flatline doldrums of F1E be (if it even occurs)?  One could argue it will be longer or shorter. It could be shorter because if we're talking fractals, each bubble has a shorter depression after it, therefore this next one could be 3 months or maybe 2. We could see ~$350-$450 until ~September.

...or one could argue it will be longer. The $32 crash suffered a long malaise period afterward because there just weren't very many people involved. Infrastructure was nearly non-existent with maybe 1 half decent exchange to even be able to buy them. The $266 crash got a LOT of exposure so we had more buy-in. The gloom after $266 was quickly washed away with all the incoming cash.

But this one, this $1100 crash, with Gox going under, has cost a lot of people a lot of money and faith. There are only so many adventurous types in the world. I wonder how many we brought in and lost in this last crash. The next influx will need to capture non-adventurous types. And that ain't easy.

I hope there is a short F1E Period which sets the stage for next rise which, if it comes, wouldn't be before July.

Programmable money is here to stay. I hope it's Bitcoin. We're constantly seeing good news, new apps, more ATMs and other infrastructure. I am truly stoked about it. Can Bitcoin create another wave that does not subside? Here's hoping my bearish guess is way off base and we see the moon next week!  Smiley
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April 22, 2014, 02:00:19 AM


Explanation
JayJuanGee
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April 22, 2014, 02:06:48 AM

My superstitious guess on Bitcoin price...
 

I thought that you were more bullish.. then you are seeming to evolve into something more bearish...

What's up like that?


I am glad that you proclaimed to have few technical analysis skills, so we may as well throw that part out.

In essence, we know that there have been a couple of negative news events this year.. and surely bitcoin had suffered other negative news before past bubbles...   ... but the fundamentals have NOT really changed.   Solutions for various problems are being worked out, and more and more of the public is becoming aware of bitcoin, yet the infrastructure may NOT be ready for the next bubble... accordingly we are dabbling in $500 and maybe we will dabble at prices below $500, such as $300s. 

Nonetheless, bitcoin is NOT dead and it is NOT dying.  There is NO reason to conclude that another bubble will NOT come - merely b/c the bubble may be delayed by a few months.

I think that you know the various uses of bitcoin that potentially give it value, so I should NOT have to go over any of those uses.... so the only question should be when and how much will be the next bubble rather than concluding that bitcoin has lost its momentum and accordingly is on a downward trajectory.  That's just NOT a very complete picture about what is going on with bitcoin and the bitcoin space.
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April 22, 2014, 02:25:43 AM

article was just mentioned on tradingview:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2609971/Disturbing-new-internet-child-abuse-sees-toddlers-raped-burned-live-webcam-paedophiles-use-Bitcoin-stop-traced-warns-police-chief.html

really disturbing stuff, but i have to think of this at the same time:



let's see how much the media will cannibalise it...
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April 22, 2014, 02:44:01 AM


As always, media prefer to report sick things done by 0.0000001% of the population, rather than the good done by a ridiculously bigger number. For every article like this one, there should be thousands about the potential contributions of cryptocurrencies to a global economy, about the millions of dollars given to charity by communities related to cryptos, and about how cryptocurrencies are currently teaching so much about economy to all those who take the time to read about them, and making a whole generation rethink what was almost unquestionned about fiat currencies.

How perverted they are.
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April 22, 2014, 02:55:39 AM


As always, media prefer to report sick things done by 0.0000001% of the population, rather than the good done by a ridiculously bigger number. For every article like this one, there should be thousands about the potential contributions of cryptocurrencies to a global economy, about the millions of dollars given to charity by communities related to cryptos, and about how cryptocurrencies are currently teaching so much about economy to all those who take the time to read about them, and making a whole generation rethink what was almost unquestionned about fiat currencies.

How perverted they are.

I guess they are implying that Bitcoin is the only form of currency that can be "untraceable," somehow I think they should re-think the whole prepaid Visa and American Express cards that are also untraceable. 
ChartBuddy
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April 22, 2014, 03:00:19 AM


Explanation
lynn_402
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April 22, 2014, 03:01:08 AM

I guess they are implying that Bitcoin is the only form of currency that can be "untraceable," somehow I think they should re-think the whole prepaid Visa and American Express cards that are also untraceable. 

Yep, and there are ways to make untracable paypal accounts, which are not really harder than anonymously buying bitcoins.
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April 22, 2014, 03:02:23 AM

we're going down
Raystonn
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April 22, 2014, 03:02:54 AM

article was just mentioned on tradingview:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2609971/Disturbing-new-internet-child-abuse-sees-toddlers-raped-burned-live-webcam-paedophiles-use-Bitcoin-stop-traced-warns-police-chief.html

really disturbing stuff, but i have to think of this at the same time:



let's see how much the media will cannibalise it...

From the article:
Quote
Paedophiles pay for sick online 'shows' using untraceable Bitcoin

The blockchain, a ledger of every Bitcoin transaction since Bitcoin was created, is completely public.  This is hardly untraceable.  We can't trace the final receiving address until it spends some of its money.  But you can trace anyone who gave Bitcoin to the perps by following the chain back to an exchange where fiat turned to Bitcoin.  Then you find that person and track where they sent Bitcoin.  Detectives should be able to locate where the person got the BTC address they sent to and locate the owner of the address that way.  For example, someone posted the address on a forum.  Now you check the forum's records and get an IP address and you have a person.  Repeat the process and follow the chain until you get to those who paid for the show.  The actual perps may be well hidden.  But those paying for the show can't guarantee the Bitcoin they received and spent to be untraceable from exchange to them.
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April 22, 2014, 03:03:47 AM

lol, it's been a while!
hlynur
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April 22, 2014, 03:05:55 AM


As always, media prefer to report sick things done by 0.0000001% of the population, rather than the good done by a ridiculously bigger number. For every article like this one, there should be thousands about the potential contributions of cryptocurrencies to a global economy, about the millions of dollars given to charity by communities related to cryptos, and about how cryptocurrencies are currently teaching so much about economy to all those who take the time to read about them, and making a whole generation rethink what was almost unquestionned about fiat currencies.

How perverted they are.

well said.
sadly i expect more and more of this stuff to show up the bigger the threat of bitcoin grows for existing structures.
populism has always been the best instrument to move the masses.
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April 22, 2014, 03:06:29 AM

Does anyone know where trollboxarchive.com went?  Is it offline?  It is showing a "registered at namecheap" default page.
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April 22, 2014, 03:06:35 AM

we're going down

is that so??
lynn_402
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April 22, 2014, 03:12:04 AM

well said.
sadly i expect more and more of this stuff to show up the bigger the threat of bitcoin grows for existing structures.
populism has always been the best instrument to move the masses.

Thankfully, the decentralised nature of internet and cryptocurrencies offer a great medium of resistance against the existing structures. I'm sure more and more people will get tired of their shit and start to use rationality.
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April 22, 2014, 03:12:23 AM


dump failure!
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April 22, 2014, 03:15:42 AM

If you bought Bitcoin a year ago would you have made a profit or not? How about a year before that? I guess the thing to do is buy as much as you can afford right now and come back next year to tell the story of your great success.

You would have made only a paper profit. You have to SELL to have a real profit.

Are you calling Bitcoin paper?  You want him to sell his BTC for paper U.S. dollars to avoid his profit being paper?


a bitcoin or any other monetary unit is only worth what you can trade for it, whatever a willing buyer and seller agree on. valuations change. Value is determined at the point of exchange.
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April 22, 2014, 03:18:16 AM

is NOT realized until the asset is cashed out.
Bitcoin *IS* cash.
So much of this. Bitcoin is better cash than fiat even.
Come on folks, each one has his Ultimate Object of Desire, and "realizes the gains" when he gets hold of that.

If your goal is dollars, you have "realized" when you converted to dollars.  If your goal is gold, you "realized" whe you exchanged the dollars for gold.  If your goal is marriage, you "realized" when you exchanged the gold for marriage.  Cheesy

The ad said 4 oz gold for my new Hungarian wife


Wink


I think the idea is to buy when the price is going down and to sell when the price is going up..
Actually, the idea is to buy when the price is about to go up and to sell when it is about to go down.  Wink  

(But, admittedly, there are practical difficulties in the implementation of that theoretical principle.   Grin)

YES... the practicality of real world prediction gets in the way.    Cheesy

In this regard, NO one really wants to sell at $500, for example, and then in the next few days the price goes up 50% (to $750) or some other large amount.  Also, NO one really wants to buy at $500 and then the price goes down to $250 in the next few days.. Therefore, a lot of people end up staggering their buys and their sells in order to approximate some kind of systematic skill in their best guesses... some guess better than others and some have more money than others to throw at the situation.

 Financial market prices have momentum, quite like physical objects affected by the natural Laws governing motion, velocity, etc. The momentum is caused by the fact that the market isn't a perfectly balanced equilibrium, where sellers share an exact consensus with buyers about when & at which prices to transact, change trends, etc. If it was so, it would be because there is no greed, no fear, no psychology involved in the market's trades - as soon as asset prices reached the 'agreed-upon' level, there would be a massive sell-off, propelling prices down to agreed-upon lows where everyone would buy back at in freakish harmonious sync.

 But as we all know, that's not how markets work. So thanks to human psychology, price movements exhibit what appears as 'inertia', 'momentum', causing a successful trader to require judicious patience & balance when trying to time when to exit & enter positions - you can't just press SELL the minute it's reached a decent high price. It won't stop there. Chances are it'll keep going back & forth in a small range, as people who get scared (of missing out on locking-in their nice profit then & there) get off the bus, yet are balanced by other, late-comers who suddenly wake up to the scent of "OMFG the price moved so much I wanna get on the bus too WAIT FOR ME". Then, after a variable length of time, it will finally retrace, where you would expect to make your profit (having sold high). When buying, same concept, it'll take some time to 'slow down' after having dropped for a while, as more & more people panic and/or get in on some greedy shortsell positions, in a price-fall-accelerating effect before it can finally run out of bear steam & retrace up.

 What this means is you don't actually, in fact, want to buy when 'it's going down' & sell when 'it's going up'. You can have more trust in the self-evident price discovery mechanism of traded markets than that. Rather, you'd want to buy after it's mostly done going down as can reasonably be expected from market conditions, and sell after it's mostly done going up. One should not need to stagger trade entries & exits THAT much, which I find to be more of a hindrance on important 'clarity' (to be able to make the most clear, effective decisions) of acct / trading management than anything. Ideally one could stagger 1-3 buy entries  & 1-3 sell exits, seperated by relatively large price %'s, given that price movement momentum will cause them to get hit more often than not. In investment management, it is more valuable to spread out your diversification & risk losing on 'price opportunity' & 'focus of investment opportunity' both in terms of the variety of assets invested into, and of the price of entries/exits taken on them, than it is to try to unrealistically maximize one's profit potential by being too greedy/too hasty in the spread of staggered price points which dramatically raises risk.

 It's also essential to make the distinction between market price fundamentals and bitcoin infrastructure/technology fundamentals. All those great news about ever-expanding merchant services & integration don't really affect the exchange price. It's announcements about legal/tax/developments regarding the exchanges themselves that have been near-singlehandedly affecting the exchange prices, as well as news in general from china ; and not all the 'Crypto is the Future of Money' headlines.
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April 22, 2014, 03:24:56 AM


banksters control the media, I expected to see that kind of reporting long ago.. funny thing is there tends to be a disproportionate number of pedophiles in positions of power too.
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April 22, 2014, 03:27:35 AM


banksters control the media, I expected to see that kind of reporting long ago.. funny thing is there tends to be a disproportionate number of pedophiles in positions of power too.


So they are beginning to fear us, that means we're on the right track Wink
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