Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JorgeStolfi]

Saw many years ago in some nature documentary: two mosquitoes feeding side by side on someone's arm.  Then the guy squashes one of them.  The other one keeps feeding, does not even blink twitch an antenna.

That scene comes to my mind every time I think of Chinese bitcoin traders... 

(Did I post this already? If so, sorry, old age is, well, you know...)

[JayJuanGee]

saying that religion causes wars is like saying chemicals cause cancer.  i have yet to see any living thing that did without chemicals, or any conscious mind that did without beliefs which cannot be concluded by evidence and logic alone.

it is difficult to take seriously anyone who attempts to preclude argument by declaring that disagreement is in itself disqualifying evidence  - and probably not worth the effort to do so.

I think this is highly dependent on what you consider a "belief." If belief strictly means religion, I couldn't disagree more, agnostics being the clearest example. Or are we talking about beliefs like "I believe my wife isn't cheating on me." Even then, one could argue that you logically think that because you have a good relationship, or she is a very loyal person in general, or maybe you're just good at laying the pipe. I honestly have a hard time agreeing that  no person can only have beliefs backed in evidence and logic.

I believe that Aminorex's point is valid, and there is NO person who does NOT make leaps of faith in his/her daily activities.  Whether those leaps of faith rise to the level of a religion may be another story.  Sometimes our leaps of faith are about matters that are so trivial no one would call those particular believes as part of a religion b/c they may NOT be part of any regular routine practice or deeply held.  An atheist may deny that some of his/her practices are religious, yet many atheists, if interviewed (or interrogated) would end up disclosing that his/her logic only carries so much of the burden.  Even within belief systems, some individuals are highly reflective and introspective, and others could NOT be bothered with such, unless you catch them on a "good" day in which they have been well fed, well rested and generally NOT preoccupied by real concerns, such as the volatility of BTC prices.

[JayJuanGee]

I think these markets are close to dying in China. The volume is now anemic. It's drying up.

New fiat can't get in, so we can't rally. And there is not a lot of motivation to sell as people watch and wait.

But how can this not end badly?  The exchanges have little to no way to make money now. So, the only "news" coming down the pipeline can be bad news. And when that hits, people will have a reason to sell.

It looks like we might be flat and then - boom - large capitulation event.

Could be days, weeks or months away though.

could be years away.

[octaft]

saying that religion causes wars is like saying chemicals cause cancer.  i have yet to see any living thing that did without chemicals, or any conscious mind that did without beliefs which cannot be concluded by evidence and logic alone.

it is difficult to take seriously anyone who attempts to preclude argument by declaring that disagreement is in itself disqualifying evidence  - and probably not worth the effort to do so.

I think this is highly dependent on what you consider a "belief." If belief strictly means religion, I couldn't disagree more, agnostics being the clearest example. Or are we talking about beliefs like "I believe my wife isn't cheating on me." Even then, one could argue that you logically think that because you have a good relationship, or she is a very loyal person in general, or maybe you're just good at laying the pipe. I honestly have a hard time agreeing that  no person can only have beliefs backed in evidence and logic.

I believe that Aminorex's point is valid, and there is NO person who does NOT make leaps of faith in his/her daily activities.  Whether those leaps of faith rise to the level of a religion may be another story.  Sometimes our leaps of faith are about matters that are so trivial no one would call those particular believes as part of a religion b/c they may NOT be part of any regular routine practice or deeply held.  An atheist may deny that some of his/her practices are religious, yet many atheists, if interviewed (or interrogated) would end up disclosing that his/her logic only carries so much of the burden.  Even within belief systems, some individuals are highly reflective and introspective, and others could NOT be bothered with such, unless you catch them on a "good" day in which they have been well fed, well rested and generally NOT preoccupied by real concerns, such as the volatility of BTC prices.

Atheism and agnosticism are not the same thing.

[JayJuanGee]

saying that religion causes wars is like saying chemicals cause cancer.  i have yet to see any living thing that did without chemicals, or any conscious mind that did without beliefs which cannot be concluded by evidence and logic alone.

it is difficult to take seriously anyone who attempts to preclude argument by declaring that disagreement is in itself disqualifying evidence  - and probably not worth the effort to do so.

I think this is highly dependent on what you consider a "belief." If belief strictly means religion, I couldn't disagree more, agnostics being the clearest example. Or are we talking about beliefs like "I believe my wife isn't cheating on me." Even then, one could argue that you logically think that because you have a good relationship, or she is a very loyal person in general, or maybe you're just good at laying the pipe. I honestly have a hard time agreeing that  no person can only have beliefs backed in evidence and logic.

I believe that Aminorex's point is valid, and there is NO person who does NOT make leaps of faith in his/her daily activities.  Whether those leaps of faith rise to the level of a religion may be another story.  Sometimes our leaps of faith are about matters that are so trivial no one would call those particular believes as part of a religion b/c they may NOT be part of any regular routine practice or deeply held.  An atheist may deny that some of his/her practices are religious, yet many atheists, if interviewed (or interrogated) would end up disclosing that his/her logic only carries so much of the burden.  Even within belief systems, some individuals are highly reflective and introspective, and others could NOT be bothered with such, unless you catch them on a "good" day in which they have been well fed, well rested and generally NOT preoccupied by real concerns, such as the volatility of BTC prices.

Atheism and agnosticism are not the same thing.

I never meant to imply that they were.  I should have clarified... since u mentioned agnosticism and I mentioned atheism... In the end, my comment was intended as non-denominational.   

[octaft]

saying that religion causes wars is like saying chemicals cause cancer.  i have yet to see any living thing that did without chemicals, or any conscious mind that did without beliefs which cannot be concluded by evidence and logic alone.

it is difficult to take seriously anyone who attempts to preclude argument by declaring that disagreement is in itself disqualifying evidence  - and probably not worth the effort to do so.

I think this is highly dependent on what you consider a "belief." If belief strictly means religion, I couldn't disagree more, agnostics being the clearest example. Or are we talking about beliefs like "I believe my wife isn't cheating on me." Even then, one could argue that you logically think that because you have a good relationship, or she is a very loyal person in general, or maybe you're just good at laying the pipe. I honestly have a hard time agreeing that  no person can only have beliefs backed in evidence and logic.

I believe that Aminorex's point is valid, and there is NO person who does NOT make leaps of faith in his/her daily activities.  Whether those leaps of faith rise to the level of a religion may be another story.  Sometimes our leaps of faith are about matters that are so trivial no one would call those particular believes as part of a religion b/c they may NOT be part of any regular routine practice or deeply held.  An atheist may deny that some of his/her practices are religious, yet many atheists, if interviewed (or interrogated) would end up disclosing that his/her logic only carries so much of the burden.  Even within belief systems, some individuals are highly reflective and introspective, and others could NOT be bothered with such, unless you catch them on a "good" day in which they have been well fed, well rested and generally NOT preoccupied by real concerns, such as the volatility of BTC prices.

Atheism and agnosticism are not the same thing.

I never meant to imply that they were.  I should have clarified... since u mentioned agnosticism and I mentioned atheism... In the end, my comment was intended as non-denominational.  

Agnosticism doesn't really fit in with that, though. "I dunno" is hardly a leap of faith. It's actually 100% evidence based, since you know what you know, and you know that you don't know.

[hdbuck]

It looks like we might be flat and then - boom - David wants to start up the space ship.

Any excuse will do to get access to peoples money. Get the foot in the door then we move one.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10819885/David-Cameron-Taxes-will-rise-unless-we-can-raid-bank-accounts.html
Cypres on a slightly larger scale

ah! finally!

[rpietila]

Exchanges are not needed for Bitcoin. Physical gold and silver don't have exchanges (yes they do, in theory, the COMEX and the like, but they are scammy places that do more harm than good to the ecosystem and no ordinary investor uses them).

PM 's have dealers. You want to buy/sell? Contact dealer. The dealers balance their positions between them, you only need one contact. Nobody gets scammed as you walk away with the product.

When the dealer network feels pressure that the price should be higher, make no mistake it will rise, as high as necessary.

Crying about Bitcoin's demise if the exchanges are choked is uninformed at best. I would rather do away with the exchanges in one fell swoop, if that would hasten the appearing of trustable dealers.

I used to be one. Don't have time currently but the matter may change.

[Blue]

as far as I can see the chinese exchanges huobi, okcoin etc.

will easily outlive human civilisation;

so we should get used to their influences and strategize accordingly

[the same goes for Gox, of course]

[mah87]

Exchanges are not needed for Bitcoin. Physical gold and silver don't have exchanges (yes they do, in theory, the COMEX and the like, but they are scammy places that do more harm than good to the ecosystem and no ordinary investor uses them).

PM 's have dealers. You want to buy/sell? Contact dealer. The dealers balance their positions between them, you only need one contact. Nobody gets scammed as you walk away with the product.

When the dealer network feels pressure that the price should be higher, make no mistake it will rise, as high as necessary.

Crying about Bitcoin's demise if the exchanges are choked is uninformed at best. I would rather do away with the exchanges in one fell swoop, if that would hasten the appearing of trustable dealers.

I used to be one. Don't have time currently but the matter may change.

what about ripple ?

[N12]

what about ripple ?

Look at this, this is BTC/XRP, so it's displaying the strength of Bitcoin vs. Ripple, and you can see that it's really been in a multi-year uptrend.

Cripple is COLLAPSING while Ripple Labs are disseminating their 100 billion XRP mah87, why on earth are you holding this shitty asset? I remember selling my cripples for values like 5k, 6k, 7k and now it's 80k per BTC. And still nowhere where I would consider buying it.



And just look at this shit, Ripple Labs have only even distributed 7 billion XRP yet (how many do they want to keep for themselves again, 30 billion?) and look what it's done to the price. How long are they going to be distributing, 20 years? It doesn't even seem that there is a road map, they're just doing it willy nilly. https://www.ripplelabs.com/xrp-distribution/

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[greenlion]

I think he really means the use case of Ripple as a platform for BTC trades, and not specifically XRP as an asset.

[mah87]

I think he really means the use case of Ripple as a platform for BTC trades, and not specifically XRP as an asset.

Yes, absolutely, more and more bitcoin exchanges are becoming gateways on the ripple network, the next one will be kraken and probably Itbit.

I think Ripple will be a major improvement for bitcoin because it will allow nice arbitrage and faster way to send and receive bitcoin.

[wachtwoord]

I think he really means the use case of Ripple as a platform for BTC trades, and not specifically XRP as an asset.

Yes, absolutely, more and more bitcoin exchanges are becoming gateways on the ripple network, the next one will be kraken and probably Itbit.

I think Ripple will be a major improvement for bitcoin because it will allow nice arbitrage and faster way to send and receive bitcoin.

Dude, can you also make a post without Ripple? If people didn't hate Ripple already (due to the centralized get rich fast screen by the corporation behind XRP and the Ripple network) you're constant nagging would make them hate it.

[aminorex]

I honestly have a hard time agreeing that  no person can only have beliefs backed in evidence and logic.

So do I.  However, "backed" being a non-technical term, subject to the ambiguities of ordinary language, I would not include all religious beliefs in the class of beliefs not backed in evidence and logic, nor would I consider being backed in evidence and logic to be a very strong endorsement of a nominated belief.

[mah87]

I think he really means the use case of Ripple as a platform for BTC trades, and not specifically XRP as an asset.

Yes, absolutely, more and more bitcoin exchanges are becoming gateways on the ripple network, the next one will be kraken and probably Itbit.

I think Ripple will be a major improvement for bitcoin because it will allow nice arbitrage and faster way to send and receive bitcoin.

Dude, can you also make a post without Ripple? If people didn't hate Ripple already (due to the centralized get rich fast screen by the corporation behind XRP and the Ripple network) you're constant nagging would make them hate it.

I'm putting what will be the future. Bitstamp adopted it, Fidor Bank adopted it, soon Kraken and Itbit and people are still doubting there is something interesting behind ripple ?

It is not a "get rich conspiracy blabla" and this is not centralized. It will take time for people to admit it but this is the truth.

[JorgeStolfi]

what about ripple ?

Say @mah87, does your sponsor pay you for each post? (Mine will pay only if and when all the bitcoiners are kneeling in front of their Central Banks, wearing sackcloth and ashes in their hair, wailing and begging for mercy and forgiveness.  Looks like it will take a bit longer than I thought.  )

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Ultros]

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Are you actually a real ripple believer a bit unused to basic seduction techniques or just someone acting as a contrarian-troll to make people hate ripple?

I seriously wonder.