Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[hdbuck]

RIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLER IPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERI PPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIP PLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPP LERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPL ERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLE RIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLER IPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLE

Are you actually a real ripple believer a bit unused to basic seduction techniques or just someone acting as a contrarian-troll to make people hate ripple?

I seriously wonder.

he just dont care. just enjoying trolling before that final "told you so"

[frienemy]

RIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLER IPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERI PPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIP PLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPP LERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPL ERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLE RIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLER IPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLE

Are you actually a real ripple believer a bit unused to basic seduction techniques or just someone acting as a contrarian-troll to make people hate ripple?

I seriously wonder.

he just dont care. just enjoying trolling before that final "told you so"

OMG, call Batman, I think he might be the RIPPLER!

[octaft]

I honestly have a hard time agreeing that  no person can only have beliefs backed in evidence and logic.

So do I.  However, "backed" being a non-technical term, subject to the ambiguities of ordinary language

Semantics.

I would not include all religious beliefs in the class of beliefs not backed in evidence and logic, nor would I consider being backed in evidence and logic to be a very strong endorsement of a nominated belief.

I never made an argument to the contrary.

[mah87]

RIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLER IPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERI PPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIP PLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPP LERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPL ERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLE RIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLER IPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLE

Are you actually a real ripple believer a bit unused to basic seduction techniques or just someone acting as a contrarian-troll to make people hate ripple?

I seriously wonder.

I'm unused to basic seduction techniques and I totally disrespect bitcoin fanboys =D Not bitcoin supporter just bitcoin fanboys saying CCMF and not able to see that Ripple is the next step for crypto =D

But yeah I think in 6-12months I'll switch to "I told you so" troll =D

[hdbuck]

RIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLER IPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERI PPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIP PLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPP LERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPL ERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLE RIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLER IPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLERIPPLE

Are you actually a real ripple believer a bit unused to basic seduction techniques or just someone acting as a contrarian-troll to make people hate ripple?

I seriously wonder.

he just dont care. just enjoying trolling before that final "told you so"

OMG, call Batman, I think he might be the RIPPLER!

I must confess i now have a little stake at ripple.. just in case!

[EuroTrash]

[ElectricMucus]

[Miz4r]

saying that religion causes wars is like saying chemicals cause cancer.  i have yet to see any living thing that did without chemicals, or any conscious mind that did without beliefs which cannot be concluded by evidence and logic alone.

it is difficult to take seriously anyone who attempts to preclude argument by declaring that disagreement is in itself disqualifying evidence  - and probably not worth the effort to do so.

I think this is highly dependent on what you consider a "belief." If belief strictly means religion, I couldn't disagree more, agnostics being the clearest example. Or are we talking about beliefs like "I believe my wife isn't cheating on me." Even then, one could argue that you logically think that because you have a good relationship, or she is a very loyal person in general, or maybe you're just good at laying the pipe. I honestly have a hard time agreeing that  no person can only have beliefs backed in evidence and logic.

I believe that Aminorex's point is valid, and there is NO person who does NOT make leaps of faith in his/her daily activities.  Whether those leaps of faith rise to the level of a religion may be another story.  Sometimes our leaps of faith are about matters that are so trivial no one would call those particular believes as part of a religion b/c they may NOT be part of any regular routine practice or deeply held.  An atheist may deny that some of his/her practices are religious, yet many atheists, if interviewed (or interrogated) would end up disclosing that his/her logic only carries so much of the burden.  Even within belief systems, some individuals are highly reflective and introspective, and others could NOT be bothered with such, unless you catch them on a "good" day in which they have been well fed, well rested and generally NOT preoccupied by real concerns, such as the volatility of BTC prices.

Atheism and agnosticism are not the same thing.

I never meant to imply that they were.  I should have clarified... since u mentioned agnosticism and I mentioned atheism... In the end, my comment was intended as non-denominational.  

Agnosticism doesn't really fit in with that, though. "I dunno" is hardly a leap of faith. It's actually 100% evidence based, since you know what you know, and you know that you don't know.

Atheism doesn't fit in with that either. Actually I don't even see much difference between agnosticism and atheism at all, since atheism doesn't claim to *know* that God doesn't exist either, they just don't believe it until they see some evidence. To give an example, I can tell you some story right now and you can decide to believe me on my word or not. If you don't believe me because you don't trust me or the story just sounds unlikely that's a perfectly fine reason, but that doesn't mean that you claim to *know* that it isn't true what I'm saying. You actually have no idea whether I speak the truth or not, maybe it's true but you simply have no reason to believe me at this point. If I came to you with some actual evidence you may be swayed and say yeah good point now I believe you. So the standpoint of an atheist is basically the same as an agnostic (both are open to evidence to convince them), except for some reason people like to make a distinction between the two. Probably because saying you don't believe something sounds too strong for people who prefer to call themselves agnostic, although it's basically the same thing if you break it down semantically. Both the atheist and agnostic don't know whether a God exists and would like to see some evidence first.

They may make leaps of faith in other areas though. I believe in reincarnation and ghosts for example even though I don't believe in God. I believe we are all infinite beings and have created our own universe to experience, learn and live in. I have no proof of this either, but I do feel it's more likely than a creator outside of ourselves. You'd get into more bizarre questions then like who created the creator, and if the answer is that the creator is infinite then my next question would be is why can't we be infinite ourselves then? Occam's Razor and all. But who knows, my beliefs are definitely not fixed in stone and maybe I'm completely wrong. That's where I think the main difference lies between me and religious people, they usually don't accept the possibility they could be wrong about their own beliefs. Because doing so might upset their God who requires absolute trust and devotion.

[edwardspitz]

Boring day, but right now is a bit exciting. It seems that someone is trying their best to encourage a breakout. Here is Kraken with an unusual bid wall:



...and there was just a large-ish buy at Bitstamp. But the resistance is strong, so I think we will need some totally amazing news for a breakout to happen.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[dreamspark]

Boring day, but right now is a bit exciting. It seems that someone is trying their best to encourage a breakout. Here is Kraken with an unusual bid wall:



...and there was just a large-ish buy at Bitstamp. But the resistance is strong, so I think we will need some totally amazing news for a breakout to happen.

Whats the volume like at kraken? Is it not big enough to play that spread ?

[edwardspitz]

Boring day, but right now is a bit exciting. It seems that someone is trying their best to encourage a breakout. Here is Kraken with an unusual bid wall:



...and there was just a large-ish buy at Bitstamp. But the resistance is strong, so I think we will need some totally amazing news for a breakout to happen.

Whats the volume like at kraken? Is it not big enough to play that spread ?

The volume at Kraken is pretty low (but increasing over the past month). The 6 EUR drop was caused by dump of only 74 coins! A fairy dumper To me it feels like someone is putting themselves a bit on the line by putting up that bid wall (and it was just put there recently). Or maybe that trader knows something I don't which is very likely 

[Erdogan]

Here is the hawala system in a nutshell:

A -> B -> C -> D

A is the person sending money, D is the person receiving money.
B and C are the hawalists, residing in different countries.

Trust relationships: A must trust that his hawalist does what he expects, make sure that D receives money. B must trust that C releases money to the customer in the other end. C must trust that B later physically sends the money with the help of a friend that travels, or that the transaction can be cleared by another transaction in the opposite direction.

What can bitcoin do? For the hawalists, they can use bitcoin, thus the transaction can be cleared immediately, and physical transport of money is not necessary.

What can ripple do?

[cbeast]

Here is the hawala system in a nutshell:

A -> B -> C -> D

A is the person sending money, D is the person receiving money.
B and C are the hawalists, residing in different countries.

Trust relationships: A must trust that his hawalist does what he expects, make sure that D receives money. B must trust that C releases money to the customer in the other end. C must trust that B later physically sends the money with the help of a friend that travels, or that the transaction can be cleared by another transaction in the opposite direction.

What can bitcoin do? For the hawalists, they can use bitcoin, thus the transaction can be cleared immediately, and physical transport of money is not necessary.

What can ripple do?

Ripple can do much the same thing if you are willing to risk your gateway to support hawalists. Watch for low flyin***BOOOM***

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

What can ripple do?

Enrich the pre-miners.

[greenlion]

I think Ripple is at best a stepping stone toward a more crypto centric mainstream and not in any way an improvement on the satoshi concept. Ripple doesn't allow for use cases without counterparty risk unless you're strictly in XRP, and their distribution of XRP basically guarantees that will never happen. Ripple is attractive in the short term if you believe that regulators will succeed in not letting us have nice things, but otherwise I don't see any advantages over truly-decentralized solutions.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[hdbuck]

urgh 

[mah87]

I think Ripple is at best a stepping stone toward a more crypto centric mainstream and not in any way an improvement on the satoshi concept. Ripple doesn't allow for use cases without counterparty risk unless you're strictly in XRP, and their distribution of XRP basically guarantees that will never happen. Ripple is attractive in the short term if you believe that regulators will succeed in not letting us have nice things, but otherwise I don't see any advantages over truly-decentralized solutions.

Imagine that btc-e become a gateway too. Then you could immediatly transfer some USD from bitstamp to btce to do some arbitrage. You could also send your bitcoin in instant (instead of waiting +/- 45min) to btce, trade it then withdraw it.


I never let my bitcoins too long on an exchange, I keep them on exchange just the time I need to trade.

This is not different with the Ripple Network. So you can use it as a way to transfer your crypto or anything. If it's a decentralized trustless token like bitcoin then you can (and you should) withdraw it to your wallet as soon as your transfer/trade is done.

So this has the same problems, you need to trust an exchange platform/gateway the time it takes for you to trade/transfer your coins.

Otherwise there are only advantages using such system.

[greenlion]

I think Ripple is at best a stepping stone toward a more crypto centric mainstream and not in any way an improvement on the satoshi concept. Ripple doesn't allow for use cases without counterparty risk unless you're strictly in XRP, and their distribution of XRP basically guarantees that will never happen. Ripple is attractive in the short term if you believe that regulators will succeed in not letting us have nice things, but otherwise I don't see any advantages over truly-decentralized solutions.

Imagine that btc-e become a gateway too. Then you could immediatly transfer some USD from bitstamp to btce to do some arbitrage. You could also send your bitcoin in instant (instead of waiting +/- 45min) to btce, trade it then withdraw it.


I never let my bitcoins too long on an exchange, I keep them on exchange just the time I need to trade.

This is not different with the Ripple Network. So you can use it as a way to transfer your crypto or anything. If it's a decentralized trustless token like bitcoin then you can (and you should) withdraw it to your wallet as soon as your transfer/trade is done.

So this has the same problems, you need to trust an exchange platform/gateway the time it takes for you to trade/transfer your coins.

Otherwise there are only advantages using such system.

I think there's merit to that opinion, in the sense that Ripple is not necessarily directly competing with what a Satoshi-style system is purporting to do, but it has a strong use-case in improving the legacy counterparty-laden interface between crypto and the status quo.