Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[empowering]

whao pretty crap start to my day here.... anyway...

anyone notice the price of gas today? unbelievable, they have been running out of gas since 1970, and then they killed the electric car, only to bring the price of gass up Up UP, because they can. "they" are true asholes. I will buy all the bitcoins that will show them HA!

Have the prices been going up? Or...

omfg we are so fucked.

damn it!

nominal gas price graph looks a bit like the  hype cycle bubble graph.... (dare I mention it)

you're right, on second thought, the inflation adjusted graph is nearly at a 100 year high, price of gas should come down, like maybe under 1$ / L ( all i know is the metric system )

wow, i did maths and i found out that

price of gas here is 3.78541 * 1.48 =  5.6 / Gallon   or 5.15USD / Gallon  

ha in the UK it is £5.86 a gallon and so =$9.56

and i thought i was getting ripped off...

Canada being america's bitch has its adv. i guess.

Pretty much everyday you spend in the UK is like bending over to pick up the soap in the showers in a prison full of lifers...  you get royal screwed in the ass over and over and over   in a financial sense I mean... in many ways this little island totally rocks.. the weather well.... this summer has been amazing... but we did not have one for the two previous years... just drizzle and rain.... it rains a lot... oh what is that ? you want to drive a car to stay dry ? well better pick up that soap.

[Richy_T]

Pretty much everyday you spend in the UK is like bending over to pick up the soap in the showers in a prison full of lifers...  you get royal screwed in the ass over and over and over   in a financial sense I mean... in many ways this little island totally rocks.. the weather well.... this summer as been amazing... but we did not have one for the two previous years... just drizzle and rain.... it rains a lot... oh what is that ? you want to drive a car to stay dry ? well better pick up that soap.

Yup. Something like 80% of the price of petrol in the UK is tax. Glad I got out. Though I mostly left because of the weather. Three years of overcast summers failed completely vs a warm sunny day in November in Florida.

[empowering]

omfg we are so fucked.

No. We have Bitcoin. There will still be fluctuations of course and we'll probably all be driving flying electric cars but it probably means that a gallon of gas in 2020 will cost about the same mBTC as in 2070

Come on BTC... by 2018 I want one of these badboys... 

http://youtu.be/bpko3CPHonQ

http://youtu.be/ivB6VsjBpZU

[empowering]

Pretty much everyday you spend in the UK is like bending over to pick up the soap in the showers in a prison full of lifers...  you get royal screwed in the ass over and over and over   in a financial sense I mean... in many ways this little island totally rocks.. the weather well.... this summer as been amazing... but we did not have one for the two previous years... just drizzle and rain.... it rains a lot... oh what is that ? you want to drive a car to stay dry ? well better pick up that soap.

Yup. Something like 80% of the price of petrol in the UK is tax. Glad I got out. Though I mostly left because of the weather. Three years of overcast summers failed completely vs a warm sunny day in November in Florida.

True that is....  and worse luck winter is coming  

Hope sunny Florida is treating you well

[Richy_T]

Pretty much everyday you spend in the UK is like bending over to pick up the soap in the showers in a prison full of lifers...  you get royal screwed in the ass over and over and over   in a financial sense I mean... in many ways this little island totally rocks.. the weather well.... this summer as been amazing... but we did not have one for the two previous years... just drizzle and rain.... it rains a lot... oh what is that ? you want to drive a car to stay dry ? well better pick up that soap.

Yup. Something like 80% of the price of petrol in the UK is tax. Glad I got out. Though I mostly left because of the weather. Three years of overcast summers failed completely vs a warm sunny day in November in Florida.

True that is....  and worse luck winter is coming  

Hope sunny Florida is treating you well

Tennessee actually Florida was just a vacation. Florida is a little too aggressively hot and sandy and full of old people for my taste.

[X7]

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[empowering]

ha made me laugh..

[NotLambchop]

...
The Bitcoin applications and their security can (and will eventually) exhibit the same amount of security (or lack thereof) as those tied in with the banking system. That part is obvious, because the Bitcoin protocol doesn't address the security of this layer in any way.
...

I'm wondering if that's the only way of seeing the problem.  I agree with the above, but...

...the security of conventional banking applications is not the only security layer for the end users of those applications.
Case in point:
If my bank's ATM or webportal gets hax0rd, I don't lose a cent.  If that happens with my Bitcoin wallet/app, I do.

True. But this falls (imo) under my 2nd point then: security through central authority.

In other words: if the ATM is hacked, you don't lose funds because you are not the de facto only owner of your funds (in the way that you are with extremely high likelihood the only owner of your funds if you are holding the private keys to you bitcoins).

The same mechanism that prevents you from losing funds if the ATM is hacked (or a bank is robbed) however also enables an even higher authority to take (parts of) your funds during a banking crisis bail-in or through inflation.

Which is why I said in my post: we will eventually come back to first principles. Do we believe that a central authority protects us from harm more often than it causes harm to us. I am okay with agreeing to disagree on this point.

I'm not disagreeing with you.  My slant on this is the question is not what we believe, but how we act on those beliefs.
Bitcoin, at the outset, rejected centralization.  Individual miners using their spare CPU cycles to mine etc., etc.
That's history.
The real mining is done by megafarms, the remaining small miners point their rigs at megapools.  Some don't even buy gear, just "invest" in "cloud mining."
You gotta admit, already not much of the original decentralisation left.  Miners don't care about the voice that they have, my guess is most wouldn't know how to go about using it.  Empty concept.  They distribute the risks--paying a central entity (pool) to increase the odds of having a steady paycheck.
Bitcoiners invest in "Bitcoin banks" (NeoBee), no matter how absurd such a thing is.
Bitcoiners ape *everything that we once wanted to leave behind*, including centralization.

Christianity, and other utopias like Communism, are also all wonderful blueprints to live by--at the conceptual level.  The problem is, just like Bitcoin, they tend to get corrupted, rot on exposure to IRL, and, eventually, become irrelevant.  Tell me you can't already see this happening with Bitcoin
[/grumbling]

TL;DR:  All the signs are pointing to Bitcoin becoming progressively more centralized and, therefore, irrelevant.  Sad but true.

[adamstgBit]

ha made me laugh..

ya i lol'd too. thank you for this X7 i needed a good lol.

unfortunately theres nothing left to say, poeple are getting screwed left and right. the end.

[grappa_barricata]

[oda.krell]

...
The Bitcoin applications and their security can (and will eventually) exhibit the same amount of security (or lack thereof) as those tied in with the banking system. That part is obvious, because the Bitcoin protocol doesn't address the security of this layer in any way.
...

I'm wondering if that's the only way of seeing the problem.  I agree with the above, but...

...the security of conventional banking applications is not the only security layer for the end users of those applications.
Case in point:
If my bank's ATM or webportal gets hax0rd, I don't lose a cent.  If that happens with my Bitcoin wallet/app, I do.

True. But this falls (imo) under my 2nd point then: security through central authority.

In other words: if the ATM is hacked, you don't lose funds because you are not the de facto only owner of your funds (in the way that you are with extremely high likelihood the only owner of your funds if you are holding the private keys to you bitcoins).

The same mechanism that prevents you from losing funds if the ATM is hacked (or a bank is robbed) however also enables an even higher authority to take (parts of) your funds during a banking crisis bail-in or through inflation.

Which is why I said in my post: we will eventually come back to first principles. Do we believe that a central authority protects us from harm more often than it causes harm to us. I am okay with agreeing to disagree on this point.

I'm not disagreeing with you.  My slant on this is the question is not what we believe, but how we act on those beliefs.
Bitcoin, at the outset, rejected centralization.  Individual miners using their spare CPU cycles to mine etc., etc.
That's history.
The real mining is done by megafarms, the remaining small miners point their rigs at megapools.  Some don't even buy gear, just "invest" in "cloud mining."
You gotta admit, already not much of the original decentralisation left.  Miners don't care about the voice that they have, my guess is most wouldn't know how to go about using it.  Empty concept.  They distribute the risks--paying a central entity (pool) to increase the odds of having a steady paycheck.
Bitcoiners invest in "Bitcoin banks" (NeoBee), no matter how absurd such a thing is.
Bitcoiners ape *everything that we once wanted to leave behind*, including centralization.

Christianity, and other utopias like Communism, are also all wonderful blueprints to live by--at the conceptual level.  The problem is, just like Bitcoin, they tend to get corrupted, rot on exposure to IRL, and, eventually, become irrelevant.  Tell me you can't already see this happening with Bitcoin
[/grumbling]

TL;DR:  All the signs are pointing to Bitcoin becoming progressively more centralized and, therefore, irrelevant.  Sad but true.

And we agree again, it seems

Yes, of all the problems I see in the near to mid term future, I consider unchecked centralization (of mining, of fiat interfaces i.e. exchanges, of Bitcoin development) to be the single biggest risk.

That said, I still think we are comparably decentralized, considering the alternatives, and I also don't want to completely ignore that incentives exist that prevent most obvious attacks resulting from over-centralization (e.g. both long term holding miners and short term selling miners have no economical interest to attack the network, as any gains by double spending would almost certainly be outclassed by the loss of potential profit by mining at post-attack prices).

[X7]

lol np.. was lurking.. felt like we needed a giggle 

[macsga]

For anyone that has not seen the video posted by Jorge, of Jorge playing with his balls please view here
http://youtu.be/rFEGFEGMDBc  

I also posted a lesson on how to double your money without leaving your desk; but that does not translate well into English, unfortunately (and it was done well before I heard of bitcoin, which has made it obsolete):    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9i6XwhH_jo

Really really splendid stuff....   I can see how this fits with the other highlights of your career.

"Jorge was a tireless worker and would spend long hours at the lab. Rumor
had it that he lived on a clock that had 26-hour days, so he would precess and
shift his sleeping time from day to day. As far as I know he spent ten years in
California without ever learning how to drive, and his wife Rumiko would come
to pick him up. I have many memories of coming to the office in the morning to
find Rumiko waiting for Jorge to come down and go home.
Jorge combines deep mathematical intuition with remarkable programming
skills – many people have one or the other of these capabilities, but the combina-
tion is rare. Even more rare is another aspect of Jorge’s intellect. Jorge is able,
better than anyone I have ever known, to put clean mathematical structure on an
amorphous set of vague ideas and produce elegant and informative mathematical
abstractions that allow insightful formal reasoning on a problem. I cannot count
the number of times that I walked away from a technical conversation with Jorge
thinking that now, finally, I understand the essence of the problem we’ve been
discussing. Jorge likes both his ideas and his programs (and yes, not to forget,
his LATEX macros) to be clean, well organized, and surgically appropriate to the
task at hand. In this respect, and in balance overall, I think Jorge was more of a
teacher to me rather than the other way around.
I want to close by mentioning another characteristic of Jorge, his remarkable
diversity and versatility, as demonstrated over a long and distinguished scientific
career. Jorge’s curiosity is not limited to any one special topic. Besides computer
graphics and computational geometry, he has made many other contributions to
interval arithmetic, splines, image search, the reconstruction or archaeological
artifacts, elasticity, and even the Voynich manuscript analysis.
So happy birthday, Jorge, and my best wishes for many more productive years
to come. Even after all these years, I still miss having you around – and in that
vein let me publically remind you that you promised to come spend a sabbatical
at Stanford "

are you tenured prof?  

It seems bating Bitcoin followers and folding notes and playing with balls seem ... a little.....  well.... pointless.

Like I said.. moments ago.. it seems to me you could put yourself to much greater use... to humanity as a whole ... by maybe fixing problems that you see
rather than wasting time here... unless you simply enojoy wasting time nowadays... or feel that you are not able.

Anyways...  as you were

The way I see it, he's contradicting a solid and undoubted argument by presenting a burning straw man paradigm all the time. By no means (if what I just read is true) he doesn't understand bitcoin. I could bet he owns some and he probably has messed with it's code and principles quite a lot. He surely adds noise but also adds value to this forum and -when not trolling- presents quite solid thoughts that give food for thought...

Pity he doesn't do this more often. Maybe he's on a payroll to troll here... such waste.

[empowering]

...
The Bitcoin applications and their security can (and will eventually) exhibit the same amount of security (or lack thereof) as those tied in with the banking system. That part is obvious, because the Bitcoin protocol doesn't address the security of this layer in any way.
...

I'm wondering if that's the only way of seeing the problem.  I agree with the above, but...

...the security of conventional banking applications is not the only security layer for the end users of those applications.
Case in point:
If my bank's ATM or webportal gets hax0rd, I don't lose a cent.  If that happens with my Bitcoin wallet/app, I do.

True. But this falls (imo) under my 2nd point then: security through central authority.

In other words: if the ATM is hacked, you don't lose funds because you are not the de facto only owner of your funds (in the way that you are with extremely high likelihood the only owner of your funds if you are holding the private keys to you bitcoins).

The same mechanism that prevents you from losing funds if the ATM is hacked (or a bank is robbed) however also enables an even higher authority to take (parts of) your funds during a banking crisis bail-in or through inflation.

Which is why I said in my post: we will eventually come back to first principles. Do we believe that a central authority protects us from harm more often than it causes harm to us. I am okay with agreeing to disagree on this point.

I'm not disagreeing with you.  My slant on this is the question is not what we believe, but how we act on those beliefs.
Bitcoin, at the outset, rejected centralization.  Individual miners using their spare CPU cycles to mine etc., etc.
That's history.
The real mining is done by megafarms, the remaining small miners point their rigs at megapools.  Some don't even buy gear, just "invest" in "cloud mining."
You gotta admit, already not much of the original decentralisation left.  Miners don't care about the voice that they have, my guess is most wouldn't know how to go about using it.  Empty concept.  They distribute the risks--paying a central entity (pool) to increase the odds of having a steady paycheck.
Bitcoiners invest in "Bitcoin banks" (NeoBee), no matter how absurd such a thing is.
Bitcoiners ape *everything that we once wanted to leave behind*, including centralization.

Christianity, and other utopias like Communism, are also all wonderful blueprints to live by--at the conceptual level.  The problem is, just like Bitcoin, they tend to get corrupted, rot on exposure to IRL, and, eventually, become irrelevant.  Tell me you can't already see this happening with Bitcoin
[/grumbling]

TL;DR:  All the signs are pointing to Bitcoin becoming progressively more centralized and, therefore, irrelevant.  Sad but true.

Important word=  Competition , in this case between miners/new hardware operating on the network....

but also from .......

Other Cryptocurrency....

If Bitcoin for whatever reason falls out of favour, then the market can decide if it is now irrelevant, or not... if it is, and the free market is allowed to operate, then users and maybe miners, are free to decide and move on.... as long as the free market is allowed to make the decision, and there is no enforcement then either centralisation, or maybe more accurate specialisation can do its worse... OR Bitcoin, and the network will solve the problem (free miners dished out with  aount of BTC, dual use technologies, or even a hardfork to render farms useless idk but not the point)

Point is if the free market is allowed to operate, then consumers/users get to decide, and then the market will do , what the market wil do.. and with it the Bitcoin price.

[JayJuanGee]

Very creative, Notlambchop, but some of us do NOT give a flying fuck whether he is a professor or NOT.... I mean, unless he is putting it to good use and even really attempting to help with various bitcoin problems.   Otherwise, why the fuck does he need to hang out here, and supposedly save us from ourselves and to save us from the various flaws of bitcoin (his latest hang-up seems to be coins getting stolen), but I am sure even if various resolutions are developing in the bitcoin space, some other major bitcoin issue will keep him focused in his attempts to "help" us out.

well, at least he showed you his real identity and his credentials.

other trolls are hiding behind their pseudonymity and their secret agendas and goals.

That is on him whether he chooses to share his personal information..... That can play both ways whether his FUD is less offensive.. I do NOT really believe sharing personal information is that relevant.. when the purpose remains to spread FUD.. by use of misinformation and deception and part truths...  and being purposefully selective in one's presentation while projecting objectivity is a kind of bullshit... whether anonymous or tied to a purportedly real person..   

[JayJuanGee]

Very creative, Notlambchop, but some of us do NOT give a flying fuck whether he is a professor or NOT.... I mean, unless he is putting it to good use and even really attempting to help with various bitcoin problems.   Otherwise, why the fuck does he need to hang out here, and supposedly save us from ourselves and to save us from the various flaws of bitcoin (his latest hang-up seems to be coins getting stolen), but I am sure even if various resolutions are developing in the bitcoin space, some other major bitcoin issue will keep him focused in his attempts to "help" us out.

It's important what he is a professor *of*. Though to be fair, in economic matters, I don't think most professors of economics have much more of a clue than Jorge.

Don't get me wrong.. it is important if people have knowledge and skills, which will lend credibility; however, frequently Jorge is NOT using his knowledge and skills except to manipulate and to deceive.  You should know that by now, Richy_T.

[adamstgBit]

ok no more talking about Jorge, seriously its been going on for days! Jorge is a troll that we love to hate. that is all.

[adamstgBit]

484. JorgeThisAndJorgeThat

[X7]