Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[billyjoeallen]

The owner of a properly positioned portfolio shouldn't much care where the price goes, especially in the short term. Only the best or luckiest day traders can use this market as a reliable source of income. For most of us, it is a form of investment or savings.  Leverage really takes away from your ability to wait out the fluctuations, so it should be used mostly in those rare circumstances where price have moved very far and rapidly out of the trading range and a partial snap-back is almost inevitable.

If you have an outside source of income and a positive cash flow, then almost anytime is a good time to buy. It's just a question of how much. Everyone wants to maximize our return on investment, but being too greedy or stingy can cause you to miss out on opportunities. This downward momentum we are currently experiencing shouldn't bother long term holders much because it is an opportunity to distribute coins to either more people (which will widen the user base) or smarter people (which will reduce volatility and make bitcoin more useful for transactions). In either case, it's good for the long term growth of the Bitcoin economy.

[macsga]

Always wondered why hodlers hang out in speculation.. makes no sense. What do they care, they will never participate in price discovery.

Truly remarkable question! Why would one who owns Apple or Microsoft stocks for 20 years would hang out in a speculation forum of WallSt. regulars... Makes no sense! What do they care, they will never participate in price discovery.


It's been fun meeting you esse83. Time to get some sleep though... not that there would be any difference from being awake with my IQ rating...

[wachtwoord]

Always wondered why hodlers hang out in speculation.. makes no sense. What do they care, they will never participate in price discovery.

Truly remarkable question! Why would one who owns Apple or Microsoft stocks for 20 years would hang out in a speculation forum of WallSt. regulars... Makes no sense! What do they care, they will never participate in price discovery.


It's been fun meeting you esse83. Time to get some sleep though... not that there would be any difference from being awake with my IQ rating...

Because the wealth increase of Bitcoin thus far makes it at least possible for the investment to be life changing in the short term. People like to keep an eye on that, even if they themselves don't trade.

[Davyd05]

I'd be more worried if it was android and visa.

Well perhaps, but happy to be all fiat atm. This decline will continue and might accelerate with news about Apple working with Visa, Mastercard and American express to create a mobile wallet.

http://www.zdnet.com/apple-patches-find-my-iphone-exploit-7000033171/ why I wasn't worried..Apple isn't adding the security that bitcoin does to my money.

[Tzupy]

This time Bistamp leads the dumps and China follows, interesting.

[Chuckee]

2014! Year of bitcoin!

So who's first to admit that they were completely, utterly wrong? Risto, any of the bulltards... waiting...

[mmitech]

2014! Year of bitcoin!

So who's first to admit that they were completely, utterly wrong? Risto, any of the bulltards... waiting...

I was wrong as well

[wachtwoord]

2014! Year of bitcoin!

So who's first to admit that they were completely, utterly wrong? Risto, any of the bulltards... waiting...

I was wrong as well

2014 is far from over.

[Davyd05]

TROLL QUOTE DENIED

However wanted to address his comment...not quite sure how you equate price to being the defining factor of bitcoin's growth

[NotLambchop]

Always wondered why hodlers hang out in speculation.. makes no sense. What do they care, they will never participate in price discovery.

Truly remarkable question! Why would one who owns Apple or Microsoft stocks for 20 years would hang out in a speculation forum of WallSt. regulars... Makes no sense! What do they care, they will never participate in price discovery.
...

Unlike Bitcoin hodlers, they plan to *sell* their shares if the market's right.  If they have no plans to sell in your hypothetical, then you have a valid question--what the hell are they doing?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[cbeast]

All you bears and trolls might not believe on Santa Bitcoin, but he believes in you. He rewards the good little bitcoiners with whales that buy us lots of presents and punishes the bad ones with lumps of litecoin.

[i dig bitcoins]

I don't know anyone who owns a single satoshi anymore.  All 5 of my friends have sold and won't be back when they saw they were down $60-120/coin, somewhere around $50k in investors.  The 2 guys who used to talk to me about btc think I am trying to scam them.  My neighbor used btc to get a discount on a new laptop; he bought them literally at the last possible second so that they price would not drop during the time that they were in his address.

There are 3 main classes of btc owners, IMO:
- the majority with less than 5 coins
- the middle with 5-300 coins
- the bigger guys

These drops are not about btc value.  They are not about price discovery.  It has nothing to do with TA.  It is just the big guys taking money from the smaller guys.  I have spent 7 months staring at the charts and watching buy/sells scroll buy.  Every drop is started by 200, 250, 300, 350 coins market sells, followed by more large sells, then the rest with 1-10 coins trying frantically not to lose money (which of course the always do).  The big guys have their buy orders a few percent off the top, buy back in.  Rinse and repeat day after day, as the price drops day after day, so the big guys can make their easy profits.  And then defend the 7k dump on Bitfinex as natural market movement.  And defend the big dump on BTC-e a few days later as a natural market movement.  And complain that people refuse to buy the price up for your next dump.

We are not in a bear market.  We are in a market where the big guys make more money on dumps than price increases.  And dumps are SO much easier.

The smug big guys in this thread like to say we are in accumulation phase.  No, we aren't.  We are in the "take the newbies' money" stage.  They are also the guys who encourage trading, instead of holding.  See, they don't make money from you when you only hold your coins, they need you on an exchange.  Goldman, etc., are replaced by anyone who holds 1 or 2k coins and can initiate dumps or walls.

Some of the big guys here are talking about $300 coins.  Good luck with that, I hope you achieve it.  Everyone except you will have sold and left btc.  Everyone else will have lost half their money and left the technology for good.  You will likely get $50, $25, $10, $1 coins, too.  A Pyrrhic victory.

This short term thinking drives the price down, hinders new adoption, and drives out anyone who has adopted recently.  Remember that when you see the charts that say btc adoption has stagnated: why would the average person hold coins that have dropped over 20% in the last 2 months and 60% in 9 months, for exactly no reason?  Why would a newbie even CONSIDER buying btc when he is guaranteed to lose money?

I am thinking about dropping out of trading myself.  I will keep a percentage of my coins in a cold wallet, sell the rest.  This crap happening in the market is unbearable.  I would rather deal with wallet street than bitcoin markets.

And no, I haven't lost coins trading.  That is only because my trades rarely last over an hour.

This is also what I have been noticing. The invisible "bullying" is occurring and has been for at least a few weeks now. Smaller guys are being bent over on trades and then double fucked by the FUD on the forums. Its like knocking a guy down but instead of allowing his head to hit the floor blast him with a massive uppercut so that his head goes back up and then come down on him with a tremendous hammer fist to knock him back down and repeat. In the end what you have is a comatosed rag doll being ping ponged up and down. If you are a hodler, you will be psychologically attacked to shake the coins loose, if you are on the fence, the price and the FUD will most likely do you in. In this environment, what you have is a trapped bunch of rats who don't know whether to burn in a sinking ship or drown in the freezing water. As I've said before keep your wits about you. This is a game of destabililzation and you should choose wisely what your moves are going to be. Amateur traders...don't play this game, hodlers...hodl, the rest...sell and cry doomsday. Free country free choice.

[spooderman]

2014! Year of bitcoin!

So who's first to admit that they were completely, utterly wrong? Risto, any of the bulltards... waiting...

I'm sorry is it xmas already?

[empowering]

All you bears and trolls might not believe on Santa Bitcoin, but he believes in you. He rewards the good little bitcoiners with whales that buy us lots of presents and punishes the bad ones with lumps of litecoin.

talking of litecoin.....

[JimboToronto]

TROLL QUOTE DENIED

However wanted to address his comment...not quite sure how you equate price to being the defining factor of bitcoin's growth

I think it has to do with thinking of Bitcoin primarily as some kind of investment.

That's a trap into which many noobs and ill-informed people fall.

[X7]

While everyone is busy being right and fighting trivial points, we know the code has flaws, we know it needs to be fixed and worked on, we know it is in it's infancy and this will take time and dedication...

So how about we all just take a step back - Ignore all the FUD, realize that we finally have a way to legally circumvent the domination the banking world has had over us for a long.. long time... fucking +1 in my book. 

[JayJuanGee]

No hardware is profitable now in mining, unless you can get it for FREE.  Not even Gen 3 hardware can ROI 35-40% back of hardware cost when they come out.   Or you have no cost for electricity and can get hardware at big discount because the capital investment for the equipment will never mine it back.

Descriptions like this seem to lend support to the inclination that many of these miners are continuing to invest in mining equipment and in mining operations that are going to cause pressures for BTC prices to go up - and the miners are likely banking upon BTC prices going up.  Maybe they are going to gamble wrong, but the rising difficulties is going to continue to put upward BTC price pressures because they are going to want to get their money back and they are going to want to make a hefty profit, too.

[Adrian-x]

ripple is the future, not bitcoin, you're all fools !!!

Glad to see you're well.
I'll never forget the crash after your last recommendation.
What do you say to the total inflation in ripple (fixed supply untill it's not)

[NotLambchop]

... going to continue to put upward BTC price pressures because they are going to want to get their money back and they are going to want to make a hefty profit, too.

The miners want the most they could get for their coin, regardless of how badly they need the money or what they paid for their gear.  The buyers want to pay the least for their coin, again regardless of all that stuff.  Absolutely no more pressure if the miners are mining at a loss.
A pawn shop won't pay you more for your wedding ring just because you *really* need the money.  It's likely to pay you less.