Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[empowering]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

I think that PayPal BTC acceptance will have more influence then merchant selling pressure.

maybe 2 years ago.

now I simply dont care because they are so late to the party.

2 years ago? really?

The party has not even started yet..... 

[prophetx]

cut your looses before its too latex !!

you should have sold at 450, too late now buddy

[JayJuanGee]

PayPal acceptance is a game changer

that will add even more selling pressure.

remember, every time new merchant jumps in - just sell.

I think that PayPal BTC acceptance will have more influence then merchant selling pressure.

maybe 2 years ago.

now I simply dont care because they are so late to the party.  

That's because you, Tarmi, seem to have a fairly robust predilection to take any news, good, bad or other, and to translate it into "BTC bear logic"  

really?  

sorry for asking, but why would I ever want to spend my BTC and pay all the fees to paypal? isn't the whole point of BTC to avoid charges? add to that the fees for USD/BTC conversion.

all I see in paypal accepting btc is selling/redistribution of old cheap coins.

It will happen you are right, there will be selling pressure, but also what will happen is more people coming into out small community of BTC users at much faster pace, which will have more influence than selling pressure. More people without BTC who will buy BTC just because PayPay said they should not fear of BTC. PayPal is something like internet religion, I think that there is a huge army of people who only watch PayPal moves and plan their strategy according to that. When PayPal adds new option there is a huge number of people who just want to try the new option, now when BTC is a new PayPal option, get ready for the revolution.

Just as AmazonStuff asserted, there are considerable advantages to have more BTC liquidation opportunities.     Not only does it provide the immediate liquidation route, it also provides for BTC publicity and BTC credibility.

Individuals can choose the extent to which it is practical for them to spend their BTC through a service or to refrain from such or to exercise a different method of payment or even to refrain from purchasing.  The fact that potentially paypal is skimming additional profits should NOT detract from the usefulness of having such liquidation avenue available to BTC holders.  In the beginning of the adoption of any new technology, we should expect a premium price paid for such... however,  over time, likely competition evolves and enters the space.. accordingly, the more profits being made, the more competition that will enter the space... These are basic free market concepts.. and sometimes it takes time for them to evolve, and we should NOT jump to too many conclusions merely based on the direction of early development, and accordingly, we need NOT view the situation with "bear logic" unless we are trying to skew reality, spread FUD and/or failing to see the whole picture.

[JorgeStolfi]

Paypal is bigger than that, if they offer bitcoin as a payment method to their customers, unless they're only one way (which I doubt) they'd need to keep them on hand for their customers to both pay with and receive.

It wouldn't be like dell dumping it all on bitpay, paypal would need a certain amount of btc in their reserve

I understood that PayPal is merely accepting dollars from BitPay/Coinbase/Coinsetter and delivering them to merchants who subscribe to PayPal.  And for "digital goods" only. And only in North America. Isn't that so?

In other words, it is just like Dell: people who buy BTC now (on the exchanges or over the counter, in bulk or retail) are paying the shopping bills of owners of old cheap coins who choose to "pay with bitcoin".  Only that there is one more intermediary (PayPal) taking their fee.

[MrPiggles]

^ i don't know where all the hate for MMI comes from.  Back in the day he mined and was hugely bullish.  He reads the charts and now calls a bear market = everyone pours vitriol and hate.

This sort of behaviour simply reinforces the cultist profile of BTC users -- tow the party line or be ridiculed.  Sad but I guess a symptom of the interweb these days.

I think doge is stoopid but I don't spend all day on a doge forum gloating about the price of dogecoin and insisting people recognise that I was right all along.

That's why people dislike him, because only an asshole would spend so much time and energy on something they dislike.

[tarmi]

there are 0 benefits for users with 0 btc to use paypal with btc.

like I said, only early adopters who bought really cheap coins could benefit from it for some micropayment, if the fees are reasonable.

[MrPiggles]

Paypal is bigger than that, if they offer bitcoin as a payment method to their customers, unless they're only one way (which I doubt) they'd need to keep them on hand for their customers to both pay with and receive.

It wouldn't be like dell dumping it all on bitpay, paypal would need a certain amount of btc in their reserve

I understood that PayPal is merely accepting dollars from BitPay/Coinbase/Coinsetter and delivering them to merchants who subscribe to PayPal.  And for "digital goods" only. And only in North America. Isn't that so?

In other words, it is just like Dell: people who buy BTC now (on the exchanges or over the counter, in bulk or retail) are paying the shopping bills of owners of old cheap coins who choose to "pay with bitcoin".  Only that there is one more intermediary (PayPal) taking their fee.

Yeah, so far. No one expected paypal to turn around and say "fuck dollars we're now a bitcoin only business" at one fell swoop

[JayJuanGee]

....
Seems to be a topic beyond the scope of this thread (though this thread seems to be fairly tolerant of a variety of topics so long as they are anywhere remotely connected to BTC walls - and even then... ooofffffta...).  

Agreed. To stick to speculation, I speculate the main problem at the mo is the same one that allowed the dominance of the Roman empire, a small but coordinated force can defeat a much larger uncoordinated force and that looks like a problem on all markets, btc is small fry in comparison.
The decaying oscillations are interesting there. Its a means by which a small force can have big effects and the principle is used in all kinds of things, its also very easy to detect and influence. A distributed bot would easily overwhelm it, basically folks running the bot would pick a bull or bear role with their holdings and the bot would push in one direction or the other, it would amplify rather than decay but overall it would add weight and thus stability to the market. It would mean trusting exchanges though and imho that's a bad idea until distributed exchanges come into common use (or exchanges that keep your holdings in multisig wallets under shared control).
EDIT: There's no need for communication between bots, the oscillations are the signal and the bot take an action on detection.

I would NOT give the smaller force as being more coordinated, they just seem to have more opportunities to dump BTC, which creates the appearance of coordination.  So, the easier it is to get in fiat and to flood the markets with fiat (at the whims of the people interested in BTC), then the more difficult it will become for the bears to manipulate the price down with their ability to easily move their BTC around.... Fiat is NOT so easy to move and there are quite a few financial barriers to move around fiat... but if that moving around of fiat (just getting it onto an exchange quickly, easily and inexpensively) is made easier, then watch out BEARS!!!!

[JayJuanGee]

^ i don't know where all the hate for MMI comes from.  Back in the day he mined and was hugely bullish.  He reads the charts and now calls a bear market = everyone pours vitriol and hate.

This sort of behaviour simply reinforces the cultist profile of BTC users -- tow the party line or be ridiculed.  Sad but I guess a symptom of the interweb these days.

I think doge is stoopid but I don't spend all day on a doge forum gloating about the price of dogecoin and insisting people recognise that I was right all along.

That's why people dislike him, because only an asshole would spend so much time and energy on something they dislike.

+1     

[Blue]

cut your looses before its too latex !!

you should have sold at 450, too late now buddy

i am shotr since late Aug and will be for another month

but for you hodlers, you may find comfort here : http://chartfactory.com/

Bitstamp / Bitfinex        nice / nice

[oda.krell]

there are 0 benefits for users with 0 btc to use paypal with btc.

like I said, only early adopters who bought really cheap coins could benefit from it for some micropayment, if the fees are reasonable.

One word: moving the goalposts.

(Okay, more like three words.)

[tarmi]

there are 0 benefits for users with 0 btc to use paypal with btc.

like I said, only early adopters who bought really cheap coins could benefit from it for some micropayment, if the fees are reasonable.

One word: moving the goalposts.

(Okay, more like three words.)

even if paypal takes 0 fees for transactions (why would they do that?) you still have to transfer your money from bank to btc exchanges and pay fees for their services.

too much of a hassle for 1 micropayment for a new user.

[Malin Keshar]

Why the weekend trap in the middle of the week?

We are supposed to go moon, not to fall again:(

Where is the bubble we were supposed to see in september ?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[magicmexican]

bitcoinwisdom down?

[600watt]

bitcoinwisdom down?

not here...

[Malin Keshar]

And btc-e almost breakind down the 400's

Weekend dump, except by the fact we are not in the weekend

[fonzie]

gnu bash vulnerability fear mongering going on /r/bitcoin, be safe do your research.

what does it mean?

It means that exchanges can be hacked (if they weren't already) using this exploit, until they patch the affected systems.
http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/09/bug-in-bash-shell-creates-big-security-hole-on-anything-with-nix-in-it/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796289.0

Huobi already gave away 920 free Bitcoins and ~8000 LTC ..
Don´t know if that has something to do with it.
They claim that they already received 800BTC back from the users....

[fonzie]

I´m, going to place some orders on BTC-E ~80-150$ for the coming days.  
400$ doesn´t seem to be sustainable much longer.

[NotLambchop]

there are 0 benefits for users with 0 btc to use paypal with btc.

like I said, only early adopters who bought really cheap coins could benefit from it for some micropayment, if the fees are reasonable.

One word: moving the goalposts.

(Okay, more like three words.)

even if paypal takes 0 fees for transactions (why would they do that?) you still have to transfer your money to btc exchanges and pay the fees for their services.

too much of a hassle for 1 micropayment for a new user.

Gentlemen!  The issue at hand is much simpler than it appears.  Allow me to illustrate:



*The night crew can't be trusted with Bitcoin.  Exchanges should remain open only between 9am and 5pm, EST