Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[vipgelsi]

bitcoinwisdom down?

not here...

Just was on it working fine also.

[MrPiggles]

I have some business issues in the US of A that I am trying to get in order - otherwise I am considering various ways to become location independent.  Currently, I am attracted to south east asia, more than europe - and part of my thinking is that I can live a lot better on a lot less (accordingly, live well within my means, and continue to accumulate wealth with a mostly passive income).  Potentially, later in life, I will be able to travel and live in more expensive areas...... Well, anyhow, this is more of a work of progress than anything set in stone...

Further, I am anticipating that there are going to be a lot of ongoing wishy-washy developments and adjustments when it comes to various tax treatments of BTC... from what I understand, Americans traveling abroad would NOT be required to count the gains of their spent BTC, so long as those BTC are spent overseas.

Regarding number of merchants, the more the better, and regarding spending, there are a lot of mixed blessings about that, and the USA, as most of us already realize, has one of the worst spending records - and some of the american consumerism habits are spreading to other areas around the world... NO simple solutions there when it comes to inequality and wasteful spending while some people are barely able to scratch by meager livings others are living wastefully high on the hog.  Seems to be a topic beyond the scope of this thread (though this thread seems to be fairly tolerant of a variety of topics so long as they are anywhere remotely connected to BTC walls - and even then... ooofffffta...).   

I think we have a lot in common, I became "location independent" about 2 years ago now.

I live in South East Asia, I live on around $2000 a month. That's in a nice villa, with a nice car, and I eat out at least 2x a day (in western restaurants not local food)

in Europe my lifestyle would eat 90% of my income, over here I save >75% of my income.

[spooderman]

I have some business issues in the US of A that I am trying to get in order - otherwise I am considering various ways to become location independent.  Currently, I am attracted to south east asia, more than europe - and part of my thinking is that I can live a lot better on a lot less (accordingly, live well within my means, and continue to accumulate wealth with a mostly passive income).  Potentially, later in life, I will be able to travel and live in more expensive areas...... Well, anyhow, this is more of a work of progress than anything set in stone...

Further, I am anticipating that there are going to be a lot of ongoing wishy-washy developments and adjustments when it comes to various tax treatments of BTC... from what I understand, Americans traveling abroad would NOT be required to count the gains of their spent BTC, so long as those BTC are spent overseas.

Regarding number of merchants, the more the better, and regarding spending, there are a lot of mixed blessings about that, and the USA, as most of us already realize, has one of the worst spending records - and some of the american consumerism habits are spreading to other areas around the world... NO simple solutions there when it comes to inequality and wasteful spending while some people are barely able to scratch by meager livings others are living wastefully high on the hog.  Seems to be a topic beyond the scope of this thread (though this thread seems to be fairly tolerant of a variety of topics so long as they are anywhere remotely connected to BTC walls - and even then... ooofffffta...).   

I think we have a lot in common, I became "location independent" about 2 years ago now.

I live in South East Asia, I live on around $2000 a month. That's in a nice villa, with a nice car, and I eat out at least 2x a day (in western restaurants not local food)

in Europe my lifestyle would eat 90% of my income, over here I save >75% of my income.

[NotLambchop]

...
I live in South East Asia, I live on around $2000 a month. That's in a nice villa, with a nice car, and I eat out at least 2x a day (in western restaurants not local food)

in Europe my lifestyle would eat 90% of my income, over here I save >75% of my income.

In most of US, you wouldn't be able to afford your lifestyle, period.  I lived on $2k a month (NYC) and trust me, there was no talk of "villas" or saving

[oda.krell]

there are 0 benefits for users with 0 btc to use paypal with btc.

like I said, only early adopters who bought really cheap coins could benefit from it for some micropayment, if the fees are reasonable.

One word: moving the goalposts.

(Okay, more like three words.)

even if paypal takes 0 fees for transactions (why would they do that?) you still have to transfer your money from bank to btc exchanges and pay fees for their services.

too much of a hassle for 1 micropayment for a new user.

Not the point. Maybe users will adopt Bitcoin, maybe they won't.

I'm simply pointing out the 'moving goalposts' type responses: A year ago, it was more or less considered a fact by the skeptics that merchants and payment processors (like Paypal) would never adopt Bitcoin. If I have a bit more time, I'll go dig out the posts.

Turns out, that wasn't the case. Merchant adoption is actually picking up quite nicely. Paypal getting on board (cautiously, but still) is pretty big. So now the new argument is: "Okay, so maybe *merchants* are interested, but consumers simply don't care."

Right now, I tend to agree  - user adoption is lagging behind.

What I don't agree with however is the notion that it needs to stay like that, for some rock solid logical reason ("fees will always be higher" etc.).

To me it simply looks like we took one major step in the right direction (merchant adoption, payment options), which means one major risk factor is removed (that you can't spend bitcoins). The future will tell if and how user adoption will kick. Might take some additional incentives, or improved security for users, or maybe just better exchanges, but there's no coherent reason why user adoption cannot happen, imo.

[MrPiggles]

...
I live in South East Asia, I live on around $2000 a month. That's in a nice villa, with a nice car, and I eat out at least 2x a day (in western restaurants not local food)

in Europe my lifestyle would eat 90% of my income, over here I save >75% of my income.

In most of US, you wouldn't be able to afford your lifestyle, period.  I lived on $2k a month (NYC) and trust me, there was no talk of "villas" or saving

Yeah, I lived in NYC, my friend's gym membership in manhattan was $300 a month.

[JayJuanGee]

I have some business issues in the US of A that I am trying to get in order - otherwise I am considering various ways to become location independent.  Currently, I am attracted to south east asia, more than europe - and part of my thinking is that I can live a lot better on a lot less (accordingly, live well within my means, and continue to accumulate wealth with a mostly passive income).  Potentially, later in life, I will be able to travel and live in more expensive areas...... Well, anyhow, this is more of a work of progress than anything set in stone...

Further, I am anticipating that there are going to be a lot of ongoing wishy-washy developments and adjustments when it comes to various tax treatments of BTC... from what I understand, Americans traveling abroad would NOT be required to count the gains of their spent BTC, so long as those BTC are spent overseas.

Regarding number of merchants, the more the better, and regarding spending, there are a lot of mixed blessings about that, and the USA, as most of us already realize, has one of the worst spending records - and some of the american consumerism habits are spreading to other areas around the world... NO simple solutions there when it comes to inequality and wasteful spending while some people are barely able to scratch by meager livings others are living wastefully high on the hog.  Seems to be a topic beyond the scope of this thread (though this thread seems to be fairly tolerant of a variety of topics so long as they are anywhere remotely connected to BTC walls - and even then... ooofffffta...).   

I think we have a lot in common, I became "location independent" about 2 years ago now.

I live in South East Asia, I live on around $2000 a month. That's in a nice villa, with a nice car, and I eat out at least 2x a day (in western restaurants not local food)

in Europe my lifestyle would eat 90% of my income, over here I save >75% of my income.

Currently, I have a pretty steady $2500 to $3000 per month of mostly passive income (investment related so does NOT take too much time to manage); however, I have an ongoing business that I am having some troubles with keeping it completely operating on its own (thus takes way too much of my time, without any additional payoff for the time i spend, except perhaps to lessen various potential liabilities), and I am considering that it could be better to figure out a way to completely sever from the business... because I am ready to move to the next stage.... and to spend my time in more leisure activities.. accordingly, your response makes me a little anxious about moving on...

Well, in any event, I have to think practically and I cannot just cut my business issues... so I gotta work them out... hopefully, sooner rather than later... 

[MrPiggles]

Currently, I have a pretty steady $2500 to $3000 per month of mostly passive income (investment related so does NOT take too much time to manage); however, I have an ongoing business that I am having some troubles with keeping it completely operating on its own (thus takes way too much of my time, without any additional payoff for the time i spend, except perhaps to lessen various potential liabilities), and I am considering that it could be better to figure out a way to completely sever from the business... because I am ready to move to the next stage.... and to spend my time in more leisure activities.. accordingly, your response makes me a little anxious about moving on...

Well, in any event, I have to think practically and I cannot just cut my business issues... so I gotta work them out... hopefully, sooner rather than later... 

I have a wife, if you're single you could half that or more easily.

Honestly I could live off $500-750 a month by myself, she's the one who insists on the villa + car. I'd be happy with a condo and a motorbike.

[bananaControl]

...
I live in South East Asia, I live on around $2000 a month. That's in a nice villa, with a nice car, and I eat out at least 2x a day (in western restaurants not local food)

in Europe my lifestyle would eat 90% of my income, over here I save >75% of my income.

In most of US, you wouldn't be able to afford your lifestyle, period.  I lived on $2k a month (NYC) and trust me, there was no talk of "villas" or saving

Theres a big difference between the east and west in Europe. I live in Western Europe, and here 2000 USD is what you would get from the government if you don't have a job, so that would put you right in the absolute bottom of the society. You would not be able to have a car or eat out at all, all your money would go to pay the rent of your tiny 2 room apartment and the essentials for living.

Hey MrPiggles, what country in South East Asia are you talking about and what are the downsides that you didn't mention?

[boumalo]

...
I live in South East Asia, I live on around $2000 a month. That's in a nice villa, with a nice car, and I eat out at least 2x a day (in western restaurants not local food)

in Europe my lifestyle would eat 90% of my income, over here I save >75% of my income.

In most of US, you wouldn't be able to afford your lifestyle, period.  I lived on $2k a month (NYC) and trust me, there was no talk of "villas" or saving

Yeah, I lived in NYC, my friend's gym membership in manhattan was $300 a month.

2k$/month even after tax sets you for a very poor and stressing life in a big rich western city

2k$/month + 2k$/month for your girlfriend all after tax may start paying you a kind of confortable life

[JayJuanGee]

Currently, I have a pretty steady $2500 to $3000 per month of mostly passive income (investment related so does NOT take too much time to manage); however, I have an ongoing business that I am having some troubles with keeping it completely operating on its own (thus takes way too much of my time, without any additional payoff for the time i spend, except perhaps to lessen various potential liabilities), and I am considering that it could be better to figure out a way to completely sever from the business... because I am ready to move to the next stage.... and to spend my time in more leisure activities.. accordingly, your response makes me a little anxious about moving on...

Well, in any event, I have to think practically and I cannot just cut my business issues... so I gotta work them out... hopefully, sooner rather than later...  

I have a wife, if you're single you could half that or more easily.

Honestly I could live off $500-750 a month by myself, she's the one who insists on the villa + car. I'd be happy with a condo and a motorbike.

My thought have been that I would use some of the extra cash flow for frequent traveling.. but it never hurts to have a little extra cash flow (even for savings purposes).. and I anticipate needing to return to the states about two times a year which is NOT cheap... . at least maybe until I make sure most of my matters/affairs in the states are settled...  and the reality may be that it will NOT be completely feasible to sever from the USA business.. .. still contemplating options in that regard.. I am actually in my late 40s, so NOT a spring chicken, but pretty decent energy and health.. Knock on wood.

[MrPiggles]

...
I live in South East Asia, I live on around $2000 a month. That's in a nice villa, with a nice car, and I eat out at least 2x a day (in western restaurants not local food)

in Europe my lifestyle would eat 90% of my income, over here I save >75% of my income.

In most of US, you wouldn't be able to afford your lifestyle, period.  I lived on $2k a month (NYC) and trust me, there was no talk of "villas" or saving

Yeah, I lived in NYC, my friend's gym membership in manhattan was $300 a month.

2k$/month even after tax sets you for a very poor and stressing life in a big rich western city

2k$/month + 2k$/month for your girlfriend all after tax may start paying you a kind of confortable life

I never said I make 2k a month, i said I live off 2k a month and I save more than 75% of my income.

[MrPiggles]

My thought have been that I would use some of the extra cash flow for frequent traveling.. but it never hurts to have a little extra cash flow (even for savings purposes).. and I anticipate needing to return to the states about two times a year which is NOT cheap... . at least maybe until I make sure most of my matters/affairs in the states are settled...  and the reality may be that it will NOT be completely feasible to sever from the USA business.. .. still contemplating options in that regard.. I am actually in my late 40s, so NOT a spring chicken, but pretty decent energy and health.. Knock on wood.

I still travel a little, but to be honest I was in the forces and I lived in 4 countries before I turned 18. I've seen a lot of the world, there aren't too many places I fancy going left.

You got 20 years on me old man, haha, I must be wise beyond my years 

[prophetx]

cut your looses before its too latex !!

you should have sold at 450, too late now buddy

i am shotr since late Aug and will be for another month

but for you hodlers, you may find comfort here : http://chartfactory.com/

Bitstamp / Bitfinex        nice / nice

i actually dumped before you at a higher price... haha



neener neener

[ShroomsKit]

For all the bears who think that 2013 was an unrecoverable bubble, please identify another bubble where 9 months after the pop the underlying fundamentals are better than it was during the bubble.

Our situation is simply that a lot of miners and short/medium-term speculative investment have coins that need to be moved to strong hands.  There is simply a reservoir of coins (which is increasing by 3600 per day) that need to be moved before we can make significant moves upwards.  Bitcoin is so useful that someday this reservoir is gonna run dry.

I seem to remember there was a strong argument on this forum that hoarding coins (nice euphemism "strong hands") is bad for BTC in the long run.  What you are essentially advocating is the same thing Shroomskit constantly proposes: nobody sells until the price reaches a level which enables laggard early-adopters to become super-rich.

Why would everyone do this?

I don't. Don't be an idiot and make things up like that.
I think it's best if people keep some coins and use the rest to stimulate a healthy Bitcoin community.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[NotLambchop]

...I was in the forces and I lived in 4 countries before I turned 18. I've seen a lot of the world, there aren't too many places I fancy going left.

You got 20 years on me old man, haha, I must be wise beyond my years 

[mooncake]

Not the point. Maybe users will adopt Bitcoin, maybe they won't.

I'm simply pointing out the 'moving goalposts' type responses: A year ago, it was more or less considered a fact by the skeptics that merchants and payment processors (like Paypal) would never adopt Bitcoin. If I have a bit more time, I'll go dig out the posts.

Turns out, that wasn't the case. Merchant adoption is actually picking up quite nicely. Paypal getting on board (cautiously, but still) is pretty big. So now the new argument is: "Okay, so maybe *merchants* are interested, but consumers simply don't care."

Right now, I tend to agree  - user adoption is lagging behind.

What I don't agree with however is the notion that it needs to stay like that, for some rock solid logical reason ("fees will always be higher" etc.).

To me it simply looks like we took one major step in the right direction (merchant adoption, payment options), which means one major risk factor is removed (that you can't spend bitcoins). The future will tell if and how user adoption will kick. Might take some additional incentives, or improved security for users, or maybe just better exchanges, but there's no coherent reason why user adoption cannot happen, imo.

Good post. You look at the past and predict the future.

Bitcoin ecosystem is growing. The price now may be low to some (I say "some" because a number got in during single digit) but all the events had pointed that it is going to get larger. Some in this forum advise to get away from bitcoin and come back a year later. That is good advice especially to those who can't handle emotionally.

[fonzie]

Explanation

TOTAL ZEN MODE ACTIVATED

[MrPiggles]

...I was in the forces and I lived in 4 countries before I turned 18. I've seen a lot of the world, there aren't too many places I fancy going left.

You got 20 years on me old man, haha, I must be wise beyond my years 

lol google image search resulted in "child smoking photography"

I'm not sure what you mean hah