Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

NotLambChop called it. That ShroomKit too. Too much cash to be made on the way down. If this thing doesn't seep back down to 270ish I'll be amazed

[1715463917]

1715463917

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Omikifuse]

We were supposed to be testing the 400's again, and now we are back to 350

Why is reality so stubborn?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Are we the greater fools that Muppet was on about then? *sigh* 

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[adamstgBit]

Are we the greater fools that Muppet was on about then? *sigh* 

magic 8 ball never fails to deliver.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Newbie1022]

When I trade, I trade using the Moon / Doom Wall observer post technique.   Divide the number of doom posts by the number of moon posts and if the ratio is grater than 1.6, it's going to pump.  Vise versa for the period after a nice uptrend.  

We have had about 3 doom posts to every moon posts the last 2-3 days so I make that a ratio of 3 for a while = moon soon(ish)  

I use that indicator too, but not in quite such a refined way - I have not defined parameters yet 

Have you thought about squaring this explanatory variable? Flipping it around and dividing 1 by it? Plotting it on an Excel spreadsheet to test for statistical significance. You've been around here long enough... you might as well create a working trading model.

[prophetx]

i think at this point in time bitcoin is a solution looking for a problem.

almost 24 months ago people though that bitcoin would revolutionize the business of international money transfers, people started working on designing ATMs, and fiat to bitcoin exchanges popped up in many jurisdictions. a solution to an old problem.

today we have some ATMs and a healthy number of exchanges, however both of these have very high regulatory costs.  as it turns out much of that "problem" is mostly the creation of various regulatory regimes, since we no longer generally ship around tons of gold on ships, that let us say are in place to allow incumbents to make money along with providing protocols that allow for reporting to governments primarily for reasons related to tax collection, but also the enforcement of embargoes, sanctions and the never ending hunt for organized crime (terror, drugs, etc).

frankly this is not what bitcoin, as one can plainly see, excels at.

one has to go back to the Satoshi Nakamoto white paper and re-read it occasionally to pull out new nuggets of insight based on what has transpired.

While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.
Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes.  The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible
services.

A few things to note here:

1. "the system works well enough for most transactions" means that Satoshi thought that "most transactions" concerning online commerce are handled well by the current system. therefor it is not likely that bitcoin applies to say the purchase of books on amazon.com.  Bitpay, circle and coinbase are sadly barking up the wrong tree.

2. so what is bitcoin perhaps good for?  there answer is right there in the first paragraph: "small casual transactions" and " non-reversible payments for nonreversible services".

What are interactions that may constitute say "small casual transactions"?

1. tipping - this has been relatively successful for reddit and doge it seems
2. online gambling - we can see that the dice sites appear to do decent business
3. ?
4. ??
5.

What are "nonreversible services"?

1. the time stamping of a digital document
2. the use of processing power
3. the use of data storage
4. the escrowing of something of value
5. the execution of a contract between some parties
6. the delivery of data
7.
8.
9.

Now ask yourselves, how many bitcoin services and business do you know which fall into some of these categories?

And then you, I think, shall understand why we are not yet at $10000/btc.

When folks on here can start naming popular services in a majority of these categories, and perhaps others, then we will see not only the foundation for more wide spread adoption but also price.

Most of the investments in the current space by VC are really throwing money into a fire. But I have full confidence that in time (say 2-3 years) other groups that are more nimble and not necessarily driven by rigid business plans will begin to execute on these.  Of course that is the reason why I really like projects like Ethereum, Counterparty and Storj.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[billyjoeallen]

We were supposed to be testing the 400's again, and now we are back to 350

Why is reality so stubborn?

Because some heavy hitter has perfected a brilliant four punch combination. It has nothing to do with fundamentals at all. It exploits the psychological phenomenon of loss aversion. People refuse to admit to themselves they made the wrong bet. The enormity of their mistake doesn't soak in until it's too late for them to cut their losses.

There is a way to counter this combination. Run in front of it. I'm either in cash or margin short until the double bottom or resistance BELOW $270.

[lyth0s]

We were supposed to be testing the 400's again, and now we are back to 350

Why is reality so stubborn?

Because some heavy hitter has perfected a brilliant four punch combination. It has nothing to do with fundamentals at all. It's

What four punch combination? and can you finish the sentence "its" heh

[JorgeStolfi]

one has to go back to the Satoshi Nakamoto white paper and re-read it occasionally to pull out new nuggets of insight based on what has transpired.

While the [ traditional ] system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.
Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes.  The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible
services.

Well, the bitcoin network currently costs ~3600 BTC/day = ~1.2 million USD/day, or over 10 USD/transaction.  Something went wrong there?

[macsga]

one has to go back to the Satoshi Nakamoto white paper and re-read it occasionally to pull out new nuggets of insight based on what has transpired.

While the [ traditional ] system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.
Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes.  The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible
services.

Well, the bitcoin network currently costs ~3600 BTC/day = ~1.2 million USD/day, or over 10 USD/transaction.  Something went wrong there?

Source?

[samsonn25]

i think at this point in time bitcoin is a solution looking for a problem.

almost 24 months ago people though that bitcoin would revolutionize the business of international money transfers, people started working on designing ATMs, and fiat to bitcoin exchanges popped up in many jurisdictions. a solution to an old problem.

today we have some ATMs and a healthy number of exchanges, however both of these have very high regulatory costs.  as it turns out much of that "problem" is mostly the creation of various regulatory regimes, since we no longer generally ship around tons of gold on ships, that let us say are in place to allow incumbents to make money along with providing protocols that allow for reporting to governments primarily for reasons related to tax collection, but also the enforcement of embargoes, sanctions and the never ending hunt for organized crime (terror, drugs, etc).

frankly this is not what bitcoin, as one can plainly see, excels at.

one has to go back to the Satoshi Nakamoto white paper and re-read it occasionally to pull out new nuggets of insight based on what has transpired.

While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.
Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes.  The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible
services.

A few things to note here:

1. "the system works well enough for most transactions" means that Satoshi thought that "most transactions" concerning online commerce are handled well by the current system. therefor it is not likely that bitcoin applies to say the purchase of books on amazon.com.  Bitpay, circle and coinbase are sadly barking up the wrong tree.

2. so what is bitcoin perhaps good for?  there answer is right there in the first paragraph: "small casual transactions" and " non-reversible payments for nonreversible services".

What are interactions that may constitute say "small casual transactions"?

1. tipping - this has been relatively successful for reddit and doge it seems
2. online gambling - we can see that the dice sites appear to do decent business
3. ?
4. ??
5.

What are "nonreversible services"?

1. the time stamping of a digital document
2. the use of processing power
3. the use of data storage
4. the escrowing of something of value
5. the execution of a contract between some parties
6. the delivery of data
7.
8.
9.

Now ask yourselves, how many bitcoin services and business do you know which fall into some of these categories?

And then you, I think, shall understand why we are not yet at $10000/btc.

When folks on here can start naming popular services in a majority of these categories, and perhaps others, then we will see not only the foundation for more wide spread adoption but also price.

Most of the investments in the current space by VC are really throwing money into a fire. But I have full confidence that in time (say 2-3 years) other groups that are more nimble and not necessarily driven by rigid business plans will begin to execute on these.  Of course that is the reason why I really like projects like Ethereum, Counterparty and Storj.

Fraud prevention and liability for accounts are a big problem also and will hamper its adoption.

Unlike credit card companies and banks who can get the money back from the merchant or store and take the hit for their customers, who will do this for btc?  There is a reason why the interchange fees ( transaction fee and % rate) are so high in addition to the transaction charges per transaction

Where btc reduces these transaction fees, risks for users losing btc because of theft or hack  and never getting a refund are very high.

[billyjoeallen]

We were supposed to be testing the 400's again, and now we are back to 350

Why is reality so stubborn?

Because some heavy hitter has perfected a brilliant four punch combination. It has nothing to do with fundamentals at all. It's

What four punch combination? and can you finish the sentence "its" heh

fixed. Sorry, phone call.

[l3mmy]

i think at this point in time bitcoin is a solution looking for a problem.

almost 24 months ago people though that bitcoin would revolutionize the business of international money transfers, people started working on designing ATMs, and fiat to bitcoin exchanges popped up in many jurisdictions. a solution to an old problem.

today we have some ATMs and a healthy number of exchanges, however both of these have very high regulatory costs.  as it turns out much of that "problem" is mostly the creation of various regulatory regimes, since we no longer generally ship around tons of gold on ships, that let us say are in place to allow incumbents to make money along with providing protocols that allow for reporting to governments primarily for reasons related to tax collection, but also the enforcement of embargoes, sanctions and the never ending hunt for organized crime (terror, drugs, etc).

frankly this is not what bitcoin, as one can plainly see, excels at.

one has to go back to the Satoshi Nakamoto white paper and re-read it occasionally to pull out new nuggets of insight based on what has transpired.

While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.
Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes.  The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible
services.

A few things to note here:

1. "the system works well enough for most transactions" means that Satoshi thought that "most transactions" concerning online commerce are handled well by the current system. therefor it is not likely that bitcoin applies to say the purchase of books on amazon.com.  Bitpay, circle and coinbase are sadly barking up the wrong tree.

2. so what is bitcoin perhaps good for?  there answer is right there in the first paragraph: "small casual transactions" and " non-reversible payments for nonreversible services".

What are interactions that may constitute say "small casual transactions"?

1. tipping - this has been relatively successful for reddit and doge it seems
2. online gambling - we can see that the dice sites appear to do decent business
3. ?
4. ??
5.

What are "nonreversible services"?

1. the time stamping of a digital document
2. the use of processing power
3. the use of data storage
4. the escrowing of something of value
5. the execution of a contract between some parties
6. the delivery of data
7.
8.
9.

Now ask yourselves, how many bitcoin services and business do you know which fall into some of these categories?

And then you, I think, shall understand why we are not yet at $10000/btc.

When folks on here can start naming popular services in a majority of these categories, and perhaps others, then we will see not only the foundation for more wide spread adoption but also price.

Most of the investments in the current space by VC are really throwing money into a fire. But I have full confidence that in time (say 2-3 years) other groups that are more nimble and not necessarily driven by rigid business plans will begin to execute on these.  Of course that is the reason why I really like projects like Ethereum, Counterparty and Storj.

This is probably one of the most level headed honest posts I have read in a long time

[JorgeStolfi]

the bitcoin network currently costs ~3600 BTC/day = ~1.2 million USD/day, or over 10 USD/transaction.

Source?

Miners get paid 25 BTC per block mined.

At 1 block every 10 minutes, that is 144 blocks/day, hence 3600 BTC/day.

At 350 USD/BTC, that is 1.26 million dollars per day.

Last time I looked there were about 100'000 transactions per day.  Hence 12.6 dollars per transaction.

Transactions seem free now because the network is paid with newly issued coins (there is an ugly word for that, but let's not rub that in).

Who pays that cost are the people who buy those 3600 new coins per day; whether small investors at the exchanges, or bigger investors over-the counter or by contracts with miners.  Those people give 1.26 million dollars per day, that they earned elsewhere, to the miners of the world; that goes into equipment, buildings, personel, electricity bills, and miners' profits.

[brekyrself]

i think at this point in time bitcoin is a solution looking for a problem.

almost 24 months ago people though that bitcoin would revolutionize the business of international money transfers, people started working on designing ATMs, and fiat to bitcoin exchanges popped up in many jurisdictions. a solution to an old problem.

today we have some ATMs and a healthy number of exchanges, however both of these have very high regulatory costs.  as it turns out much of that "problem" is mostly the creation of various regulatory regimes, since we no longer generally ship around tons of gold on ships, that let us say are in place to allow incumbents to make money along with providing protocols that allow for reporting to governments primarily for reasons related to tax collection, but also the enforcement of embargoes, sanctions and the never ending hunt for organized crime (terror, drugs, etc).

frankly this is not what bitcoin, as one can plainly see, excels at.

one has to go back to the Satoshi Nakamoto white paper and re-read it occasionally to pull out new nuggets of insight based on what has transpired.

While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.
Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes.  The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible
services.

A few things to note here:

1. "the system works well enough for most transactions" means that Satoshi thought that "most transactions" concerning online commerce are handled well by the current system. therefor it is not likely that bitcoin applies to say the purchase of books on amazon.com.  Bitpay, circle and coinbase are sadly barking up the wrong tree.

2. so what is bitcoin perhaps good for?  there answer is right there in the first paragraph: "small casual transactions" and " non-reversible payments for nonreversible services".

What are interactions that may constitute say "small casual transactions"?

1. tipping - this has been relatively successful for reddit and doge it seems
2. online gambling - we can see that the dice sites appear to do decent business
3. ?
4. ??
5.

What are "nonreversible services"?

1. the time stamping of a digital document
2. the use of processing power
3. the use of data storage
4. the escrowing of something of value
5. the execution of a contract between some parties
6. the delivery of data
7.
8.
9.

Now ask yourselves, how many bitcoin services and business do you know which fall into some of these categories?

And then you, I think, shall understand why we are not yet at $10000/btc.

When folks on here can start naming popular services in a majority of these categories, and perhaps others, then we will see not only the foundation for more wide spread adoption but also price.

Most of the investments in the current space by VC are really throwing money into a fire. But I have full confidence that in time (say 2-3 years) other groups that are more nimble and not necessarily driven by rigid business plans will begin to execute on these.  Of course that is the reason why I really like projects like Ethereum, Counterparty and Storj.

This could be the single best post in the entire thread.  Bitcoin has shown us the power of the blockchain however some of the alt's are taking this ideology and targeting specific issues around the world.  BTC has the first mover advantage however after thoroughly investigating such alt's as BitShares is hard to imagine one of these projects NOT overtaking btc in short order unless a specific niche is filled by btc alone.

BTC as strictly a currency may not be enough for mass adoption where as the blockchain itself is set to change the financial world.

[l3mmy]

i think at this point in time bitcoin is a solution looking for a problem.

almost 24 months ago people though that bitcoin would revolutionize the business of international money transfers, people started working on designing ATMs, and fiat to bitcoin exchanges popped up in many jurisdictions. a solution to an old problem.

today we have some ATMs and a healthy number of exchanges, however both of these have very high regulatory costs.  as it turns out much of that "problem" is mostly the creation of various regulatory regimes, since we no longer generally ship around tons of gold on ships, that let us say are in place to allow incumbents to make money along with providing protocols that allow for reporting to governments primarily for reasons related to tax collection, but also the enforcement of embargoes, sanctions and the never ending hunt for organized crime (terror, drugs, etc).

frankly this is not what bitcoin, as one can plainly see, excels at.

one has to go back to the Satoshi Nakamoto white paper and re-read it occasionally to pull out new nuggets of insight based on what has transpired.

While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model.
Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes.  The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible
services.

A few things to note here:

1. "the system works well enough for most transactions" means that Satoshi thought that "most transactions" concerning online commerce are handled well by the current system. therefor it is not likely that bitcoin applies to say the purchase of books on amazon.com.  Bitpay, circle and coinbase are sadly barking up the wrong tree.

2. so what is bitcoin perhaps good for?  there answer is right there in the first paragraph: "small casual transactions" and " non-reversible payments for nonreversible services".

What are interactions that may constitute say "small casual transactions"?

1. tipping - this has been relatively successful for reddit and doge it seems
2. online gambling - we can see that the dice sites appear to do decent business
3. ?
4. ??
5.

What are "nonreversible services"?

1. the time stamping of a digital document
2. the use of processing power
3. the use of data storage
4. the escrowing of something of value
5. the execution of a contract between some parties
6. the delivery of data
7.
8.
9.

Now ask yourselves, how many bitcoin services and business do you know which fall into some of these categories?

And then you, I think, shall understand why we are not yet at $10000/btc.

When folks on here can start naming popular services in a majority of these categories, and perhaps others, then we will see not only the foundation for more wide spread adoption but also price.

Most of the investments in the current space by VC are really throwing money into a fire. But I have full confidence that in time (say 2-3 years) other groups that are more nimble and not necessarily driven by rigid business plans will begin to execute on these.  Of course that is the reason why I really like projects like Ethereum, Counterparty and Storj.

This could be the single best post in the entire thread.  Bitcoin has shown us the power of the blockchain however some of the alt's are taking this ideology and targeting specific issues around the world.  BTC has the first mover advantage however after thoroughly investigating such alt's as BitShares is hard to imagine one of these projects NOT overtaking btc in short order unless a specific niche is filled by btc alone.

BTC as strictly a currency may not be enough for mass adoption where as the blockchain itself is set to change the financial world.

Bitcoin as first mover gets the news the blockchain can change the world. 

Prophets I have been reading everything bitcoin and al for a while and nobody has put these feelings into a statement so concisely as this post... Bookmark this, tweet it blog it but this is one of the best written posts in the entire bitcoin landscape