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Question: The result of our STATIC nodes poll was 500,000 coins on deposit for Level 1 STATIC nodes.
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Author Topic: [NEW XBY ANN] XTRABYTES - BECAUSE THE BLOCKCHAIN CAN BE BETTER  (Read 370387 times)
realistic1
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June 06, 2017, 04:13:22 PM
 #2001

I asked in this question in the slack however it was difficult to clarify with a lot of conversation going on at the time.  As had been mentioned at times and pointed out in the most recent video there will at some later date be L2 nodes released - I am interested in the purpose of this as from what I was told there would not be technical differences, merely less upfront cost and less receivable income.

In terms of the quality of the network there is straightforward benefit:  more nodes = among other things further decentralization = better network.  However the purpose behind 'mininodes' I still find somewhat puzzling.  We can consider that by offering a lower price point more nodes will be adopted, this a good thing, however this would come with economic impact to the original, or L1 nodes, eventually deterring investor interest.

At this time the number of nodes is to be fixed to 512.  Under this circumstance we have a limited supply 512 nodes that have the right to receive income from the network - or in other words 500k XBY in a node is of greater value than 500k 'loose' XBY as it is effectively working harder.  The market determines that value by determining that interest rate, accounting for the associated risk, weighing alternate opportunities and eventually offering a flat price.  There is of course opportunity cost associated as the money can't be used for anything else over the duration it is tied up in the node.  To draw a comparison we could say a truck costing $500k being worked to near capacity should have greater economic value than $500k stashed under the mattress, but as long as the money is tied up in the truck it cannot be used to invest elsewhere.

By introducing a secondary tier at, for the sake of simplicity, half the price, it would then be possible to buy two smaller trucks capable of earning half the level of income each.  Like trucks computers or their connections somewhere along the line can and do fail for periods of time, we love decentralization as it addresses this issue.  If we have two then if one truck, or computer were to break down the other is still capable of earning for us.  As we never see an uptime of 100% with trucks or computers alike we can expect if we only have one it will from time to time leave us completely out of pocket, this is something that could be reasonably accurately calculated.  In addition to this a node cannot be partially sold, and like a truck it must be sold whole if it is to serve an identical purpose.  For these reasons I would argue the logical approach from an investment standpoint would be to own two smaller nodes - not only do you have some redundancy in terms of the revenue stream, but also the ability to partially sell off that revenue stream if or when required - greater liquidity.

With what I would consider more attractive nodes introduced at later dates I would suggest this devalues the big 'one piece' L1 nodes, and if we were to introduce L3 down to L20 nodes down the line the L1 begins to look like a significantly riskier behemoth, not only in terms of consistency of revenue but perhaps more importantly liquidity - it would be more difficult to find a buyer and cannot be sold partially vs being able to sell off for example 1/20th of that revenue stream.  In my opinion the more liquid alternative would be the far more desirable option.  We could consider offering some amount of fees to the higher level options which would offset this, but in terms of the quality of the network I do not find logic in offering more money for the same work.

So, I look to challenge my thinking and seek an argument as to why this system would work better than say, just splitting all existing nodes across one level? And why L1 node holders should not have concerns that their investment would economically speaking devalue over time?



I wont.be kind cause you spent the whole spreading bland fud on the slack. If you had actually rewx though the ANN or just not been so pompous you would know the first round already happened at community decided price of 500.000. Now you cant go back and ask people fo.completely change their pricing.to.keep.ypu happy. Clearly its just a way to give oportunity for more people to buy a node at a lower price due to the price increase. What a lot of hot air over nothing. You must be fun at parties.
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karlkennedy3000
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June 06, 2017, 04:39:02 PM
 #2002

I wont.be kind cause you spent the whole spreading bland fud on the slack. If you had actually rewx though the ANN or just not been so pompous you would know the first round already happened at community decided price of 500.000. Now you cant go back and ask people fo.completely change their pricing.to.keep.ypu happy. Clearly its just a way to give oportunity for more people to buy a node at a lower price due to the price increase. What a lot of hot air over nothing. You must be fun at parties.

OK here - early big nodes will be worth less than later small nodes
Sanchoni25
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June 06, 2017, 05:51:36 PM
 #2003

Why isn't XBY on a major exchange like Bitt or Polo?

XBY will be listed on all big exchanges when the tech is ready and when no more bugs will occur. No need to rush Smiley It is still experimental and that's why we call it a high risk high reward coin hence the price could (or better will) go 10x/100x/1000x in the future..

OK here - early big nodes will be worth less than later small nodes

No, early big nodes will always be worth more than the smaller nodes because they keep the system running and earn more profits plus they will contain the double amount of XBY's and because XBY is a deflationary currency where all 650 Million coins already exist that means smaller nodes mathematically cannot be worth more than the original level 1 nodes. If you want to buy more XBY grab more BTC instead of trying to spread bad FUD around here  Wink

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June 06, 2017, 08:41:37 PM
 #2004

Why isn't XBY on a major exchange like Bitt or Polo?

XBY will be listed on all big exchanges when the tech is ready and when no more bugs will occur. No need to rush Smiley It is still experimental and that's why we call it a high risk high reward coin hence the price could (or better will) go 10x/100x/1000x in the future..

OK here - early big nodes will be worth less than later small nodes

No, early big nodes will always be worth more than the smaller nodes because they keep the system running and earn more profits plus they will contain the double amount of XBY's and because XBY is a deflationary currency where all 650 Million coins already exist that means smaller nodes mathematically cannot be worth more than the original level 1 nodes. If you want to buy more XBY grab more BTC instead of trying to spread bad FUD around here  Wink

5 USD a coin would suit me just fine Smiley
kronos123
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June 06, 2017, 10:18:10 PM
 #2005

Please someone can explain to me how many XBY I need to have for a full node? And for smaller nodes?

What is the reward per day to keep a full node or small node?

Thank you
karlkennedy3000
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June 07, 2017, 01:12:42 AM
 #2006

No, early big nodes will always be worth more than the smaller nodes because they keep the system running and earn more profits plus they will contain the double amount of XBY's and because XBY is a deflationary currency where all 650 Million coins already exist that means smaller nodes mathematically cannot be worth more than the original level 1 nodes. If you want to buy more XBY grab more BTC instead of trying to spread bad FUD around here  Wink

Yeah obviously relative to one another and I just demonstrated why.  """"Deflationary"""" or the number of coins are entirely irrelevant.
Zitzenfuzler
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June 07, 2017, 01:54:29 AM
 #2007

Why isn't XBY on a major exchange like Bitt or Polo?

XBY will be listed on all big exchanges when the tech is ready and when no more bugs will occur. No need to rush Smiley It is still experimental and that's why we call it a high risk high reward coin hence the price could (or better will) go 10x/100x/1000x in the future..

OK here - early big nodes will be worth less than later small nodes

No, early big nodes will always be worth more than the smaller nodes because they keep the system running and earn more profits plus they will contain the double amount of XBY's and because XBY is a deflationary currency where all 650 Million coins already exist that means smaller nodes mathematically cannot be worth more than the original level 1 nodes. If you want to buy more XBY grab more BTC instead of trying to spread bad FUD around here  Wink

5 USD a coin would suit me just fine Smiley

But there is as total supply of 650mio! Maidsafe has 452mio and its worth 0,53$ right now, market cap: 240mio USD.
I do not know why you all are so convinced about attracting big whales, but I think we can be happy if this coin reaches more than 25 Cents.
smokim87
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June 07, 2017, 02:25:54 AM
 #2008

Why isn't XBY on a major exchange like Bitt or Polo?

XBY will be listed on all big exchanges when the tech is ready and when no more bugs will occur. No need to rush Smiley It is still experimental and that's why we call it a high risk high reward coin hence the price could (or better will) go 10x/100x/1000x in the future..

OK here - early big nodes will be worth less than later small nodes

No, early big nodes will always be worth more than the smaller nodes because they keep the system running and earn more profits plus they will contain the double amount of XBY's and because XBY is a deflationary currency where all 650 Million coins already exist that means smaller nodes mathematically cannot be worth more than the original level 1 nodes. If you want to buy more XBY grab more BTC instead of trying to spread bad FUD around here  Wink

5 USD a coin would suit me just fine Smiley

But there is as total supply of 650mio! Maidsafe has 452mio and its worth 0,53$ right now, market cap: 240mio USD.
I do not know why you all are so convinced about attracting big whales, but I think we can be happy if this coin reaches more than 25 Cents.

The biggest mistake new comers do is comparing supplies of other coins and their respective prices...it doesn't work like that.

Price of a coin depends on many factors, supply is probably the last on the list (unless inflation is a million % a year).

You can't compare XBY with maidsafe based on their supply, their 2 different projects and are their prices depend on factors that are common and alot others that are different.

Try not to think of supply as the thing that determines the price of a coin only...
realistic1
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June 07, 2017, 02:50:38 AM
Last edit: June 07, 2017, 03:23:37 AM by realistic1
 #2009

Why isn't XBY on a major exchange like Bitt or Polo?

XBY will be listed on all big exchanges when the tech is ready and when no more bugs will occur. No need to rush Smiley It is still experimental and that's why we call it a high risk high reward coin hence the price could (or better will) go 10x/100x/1000x in the future..

OK here - early big nodes will be worth less than later small nodes

No, early big nodes will always be worth more than the smaller nodes because they keep the system running and earn more profits plus they will contain the double amount of XBY's and because XBY is a deflationary currency where all 650 Million coins already exist that means smaller nodes mathematically cannot be worth more than the original level 1 nodes. If you want to buy more XBY grab more BTC instead of trying to spread bad FUD around here  Wink

5 USD a coin would suit me just fine Smiley

But there is as total supply of 650mio! Maidsafe has 452mio and its worth 0,53$ right now, market cap: 240mio USD.
I do not know why you all are so convinced about attracting big whales, but I think we can be happy if this coin reaches more than 25 Cents.

The biggest mistake new comers do is comparing supplies of other coins and their respective prices...it doesn't work like that.

Price of a coin depends on many factors, supply is probably the last on the list (unless inflation is a million % a year).

You can't compare XBY with maidsafe based on their supply, their 2 different projects and are their prices depend on factors that are common and alot others that are different.

Try not to think of supply as the thing that determines the price of a coin only...


The only thing? Supply doesnt determine price at all. The only important thing about supply is if its hardcapped or not. XBY is hardcapped. Price means zero absolutely nothing. Its like saying a pizza is cheap cause one slice is only a dollar but the pizza is sliced into 100 slices...its moronic. Marketcap is the only thing to look at. The actual price only has any value when coupled with supply and then only cause you can work out marketcap. Attacking supply is what scum bag fudders  do.  Thats all.


This coin is literally in the hands of morons who dont appreciate the significance of the technology. Sad i see very few legendary or hero members posting here cause its hidden in the depth of Yobit pump and dump hell at the moment. Hopefully that will change soon.
22justin
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June 07, 2017, 07:09:04 AM
 #2010

I'm pretty well stocked up in XBY, Maidsafe and Shift. Like the future for all 3.... 10x gains in their futures I think.

Looking for the next 10x Small Cap for Q2 2018? $XBY (dApp Platform, New PoSign Algorithm), $SHIFT (dPoS Decentralized Web 3.0 on IFPS) & $BLOCK (Blockchain Agnostic DeX, atomic swaps)
Twitter: @Vancitycrypto
karlkennedy3000
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June 07, 2017, 09:01:24 AM
 #2011

The only thing? Supply doesnt determine price at all. The only important thing about supply is if its hardcapped or not. XBY is hardcapped. Price means zero absolutely nothing. Its like saying a pizza is cheap cause one slice is only a dollar but the pizza is sliced into 100 slices...its moronic. Marketcap is the only thing to look at. The actual price only has any value when coupled with supply and then only cause you can work out marketcap. Attacking supply is what scum bag fudders  do.  Thats all.


This coin is literally in the hands of morons who dont appreciate the significance of the technology. Sad i see very few legendary or hero members posting here cause its hidden in the depth of Yobit pump and dump hell at the moment. Hopefully that will change soon.

Actually supply does determine price
realistic1
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June 07, 2017, 09:16:32 AM
 #2012

Didnt i say that. Price has value coupled with supply. My point maybe i didnt make crystal clear is price in isolation is meaningless. This is all very obvious.
Sanchoni25
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June 07, 2017, 09:34:52 AM
 #2013

Actually supply does determine price

No, market cap determines the price.

At least inform yourself about the basics of trading, please  Huh

karlkennedy3000
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June 07, 2017, 10:10:12 AM
 #2014

Actually supply does determine price

No, market cap determines the price.

At least inform yourself about the basics of trading, please  Huh

You will find that you are wrong
yabbadabba
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June 07, 2017, 10:20:12 AM
 #2015

I don't want this to be perceived as FUD but I really wanna address the transaction fee of 100 xtrabytes.


I already contacted two companies which are willing to start using XBY as a payment method for freelance/contracting services but they have an issue with the transaction fee.

This will be fixed in the future. For now this is just to fund the developers/people helping the project. So it's temprorary from what I've understood. And it's not in anyway profitting anyone except for the people who are putting a lot of time into making this project work. So, dont worry about this.

how will you fund the developers/people if you don't withdraw, they have a wallet to deposit if you want to fund them.
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June 07, 2017, 10:39:01 AM
 #2016

Actually supply does determine price

No, market cap determines the price.

At least inform yourself about the basics of trading, please  Huh

You will find that you are wrong

Actually, supply & demand determine the price, marketcap is just an overall project value based on latest known price.
Sanchoni25
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June 07, 2017, 10:55:30 AM
 #2017

Actually, supply & demand determine the price, marketcap is just an overall project value based on latest known price.

What is 'Market Capitalization'
Market capitalization refers the total dollar market value of a company's outstanding shares. Commonly referred to as "market cap," it is calculated by multiplying a company's shares outstanding by the current market price of one share. The investment community uses this figure to determine a company's size, as opposed to using sales or total asset figures.

BREAKING DOWN 'Market Capitalization'
Using market capitalization to show the size of a company is important because company size is a basic determinant of various characteristics in which investors are interested, including risk. It is also easy to calculate. A company with 20 million shares selling at $100 a share would have a market cap of $2 billion.

karlkennedy3000
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June 07, 2017, 10:59:56 AM
 #2018

Actually, supply & demand determine the price, marketcap is just an overall project value based on latest known price.

What is 'Market Capitalization'
Market capitalization refers the total dollar market value of a company's outstanding shares. Commonly referred to as "market cap," it is calculated by multiplying a company's shares outstanding by the current market price of one share. The investment community uses this figure to determine a company's size, as opposed to using sales or total asset figures.

BREAKING DOWN 'Market Capitalization'
Using market capitalization to show the size of a company is important because company size is a basic determinant of various characteristics in which investors are interested, including risk. It is also easy to calculate. A company with 20 million shares selling at $100 a share would have a market cap of $2 billion.

ahaha
Fourwinds117
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June 07, 2017, 11:02:33 AM
 #2019

I asked in this question in the slack however it was difficult to clarify with a lot of conversation going on at the time.  As had been mentioned at times and pointed out in the most recent video there will at some later date be L2 nodes released - I am interested in the purpose of this as from what I was told there would not be technical differences, merely less upfront cost and less receivable income.

In terms of the quality of the network there is straightforward benefit:  more nodes = among other things further decentralization = better network.  However the purpose behind 'mininodes' I still find somewhat puzzling.  We can consider that by offering a lower price point more nodes will be adopted, this a good thing, however this would come with economic impact to the original, or L1 nodes, eventually deterring investor interest.

At this time the number of nodes is to be fixed to 512.  Under this circumstance we have a limited supply 512 nodes that have the right to receive income from the network - or in other words 500k XBY in a node is of greater value than 500k 'loose' XBY as it is effectively working harder.  The market determines that value by determining that interest rate, accounting for the associated risk, weighing alternate opportunities and eventually offering a flat price.  There is of course opportunity cost associated as the money can't be used for anything else over the duration it is tied up in the node.  To draw a comparison we could say a truck costing $500k being worked to near capacity should have greater economic value than $500k stashed under the mattress, but as long as the money is tied up in the truck it cannot be used to invest elsewhere.

By introducing a secondary tier at, for the sake of simplicity, half the price, it would then be possible to buy two smaller trucks capable of earning half the level of income each.  Like trucks computers or their connections somewhere along the line can and do fail for periods of time, we love decentralization as it addresses this issue.  If we have two then if one truck, or computer were to break down the other is still capable of earning for us.  As we never see an uptime of 100% with trucks or computers alike we can expect if we only have one it will from time to time leave us completely out of pocket, this is something that could be reasonably accurately calculated.  In addition to this a node cannot be partially sold, and like a truck it must be sold whole if it is to serve an identical purpose.  For these reasons I would argue the logical approach from an investment standpoint would be to own two smaller nodes - not only do you have some redundancy in terms of the revenue stream, but also the ability to partially sell off that revenue stream if or when required - greater liquidity.

With what I would consider more attractive nodes introduced at later dates I would suggest this devalues the big 'one piece' L1 nodes, and if we were to introduce L3 down to L20 nodes down the line the L1 begins to look like a significantly riskier behemoth, not only in terms of consistency of revenue but perhaps more importantly liquidity - it would be more difficult to find a buyer and cannot be sold partially vs being able to sell off for example 1/20th of that revenue stream.  In my opinion the more liquid alternative would be the far more desirable option.  We could consider offering some amount of fees to the higher level options which would offset this, but in terms of the quality of the network I do not find logic in offering more money for the same work.

So, I look to challenge my thinking and seek an argument as to why this system would work better than say, just splitting all existing nodes across one level? And why L1 node holders should not have concerns that their investment would economically speaking devalue over time?

You are deep Karl. Maybe Borz can read and reply when he has time. He probably won't fear this topic and call you a fudder lol. Good luck!
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June 07, 2017, 11:21:02 AM
 #2020

Actually, supply & demand determine the price, marketcap is just an overall project value based on latest known price.

What is 'Market Capitalization'
Market capitalization refers the total dollar market value of a company's outstanding shares. Commonly referred to as "market cap," it is calculated by multiplying a company's shares outstanding by the current market price of one share. The investment community uses this figure to determine a company's size, as opposed to using sales or total asset figures.

BREAKING DOWN 'Market Capitalization'
Using market capitalization to show the size of a company is important because company size is a basic determinant of various characteristics in which investors are interested, including risk. It is also easy to calculate. A company with 20 million shares selling at $100 a share would have a market cap of $2 billion.

To keep it simple it is all about supply and demand. At the beginning of a project like XBY for example the investors (the early adopters) invest by the information they are getting, like what is the purpose of the project. You try to get these investors by explaining them what you are trying to accomplish and hope to create demand this way. As the project progress you get another type of investors, these will use market capitalization to determine if it is worth investing in the project. So in the end if the early adopters have invested enough and the project is progressing nicely you will create demand for the other type of investors. So it's just about supply and demand but you have different types of investors that will only invest when they have certain information.

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