[Group Buy] Avalon ASIC Chips (SebastianJu) Batch 6 ordered (Closed)

[SebastianJu]

Today i practically wasnt in the forum/thread. The reason was that i travelled through half of germany to bavaria and only now came back. I there visited the company that will import the chips, i checked everything there and made a contract to ensure everything. Before doing this i got the permission from avalon support to change the addresses for the batch-orders afterwards. The support will change this now fast too i hope.

Now the import will go faster and without problems. Furthermore i made a deal with the company that, in case the vat is appropriate high, the company will make bills about the payable vat for the single groupbuyers. This case only applies in case the vat is appropriate high.

In case the bills will be needed for vat i would collect billing addresses and an emailaddress to send the bill to from all parttakers in the groupbuy. At the moment 268 members. For now it wont be necessary because i have a ticket with avalon where i ask for more detailed infos about this. In case avalon isnt answering soon i will call Yifu again. In case this wont help i will collect addresses preventive. Its better to be prepared then having to wait later.

So it looks like its slowly moving forward...

[a2offrb]

Today i practically wasnt in the forum/thread. The reason was that i travelled through half of germany to bavaria and only now came back. I there visited the company that will import the chips, i checked everything there and made a contract to ensure everything. Before doing this i got the permission from avalon support to change the addresses for the batch-orders afterwards. The support will change this now fast too i hope.

Now the import will go faster and without problems. Furthermore i made a deal with the company that, in case the vat is appropriate high, the company will make bills about the payable vat for the single groupbuyers. This case only applies in case the vat is appropriate high.

In case the bills will be needed for vat i would collect billing addresses and an emailaddress to send the bill to from all parttakers in the groupbuy. At the moment 268 members. For now it wont be necessary because i have a ticket with avalon where i ask for more detailed infos about this. In case avalon isnt answering soon i will call Yifu again. In case this wont help i will collect addresses preventive. Its better to be prepared then having to wait later.

So it looks like its slowly moving forward...

As we pay in bitcoins and bitcoins officially worth nothing, should we pay VAT?

[m5]

As we pay in bitcoins and bitcoins officially worth nothing, should we pay VAT?

If the price you paid is unknown or unreasonably low, the customs can calculate the "market value" and use that for VAT. And the chips are worth more than nothing, but who know how much...
I think it depends on what value will Avalon declare. It should be less than what we paid, but not too low for customs to be suspicious (although the majority of standard SMT chips and components are less than $1).
Also the customs sometimes tend to "guess" the price from the size of the package, so small box full of expensive chips declared as $10 won't be suspicious, but big big box with something really cheap would be

[a2offrb]

As we pay in bitcoins and bitcoins officially worth nothing, should we pay VAT?

If the price you paid is unknown or unreasonably low, the customs can calculate the "market value" and use that for VAT. And the chips are worth more than nothing, but who know how much...
I think it depends on what value will Avalon declare. It should be less than what we paid, but not too low for customs to be suspicious (although the majority of standard SMT chips and components are less than $1).
Also the customs sometimes tend to "guess" the price from the size of the package, so small box full of expensive chips declared as $10 won't be suspicious, but big big box with something really cheap would be

In Finland Vat is 24%. Dunno how it is in Germany.
So i think that about 800*100=80000$*1.24=99200$.
 19200$ is too much. If there is any chance not to pay taxes, i think it must be used.
Sebastian have to have different explaines aboit possible very low,amost nothing, price or good explanation that resale value is almost nothing becouse of production method and these asics processors could not be used in any other project so no one need them....

And i personally hate to pay taxes. If there is chance to not to pay to government i prefer to keep my money

[Josue]

<Josue>; <200>; <17.2>; <1EvaWzQGmyBLdjVVohf3z8MTAEXEMWLKwT>

[Schrankwand]

Today i practically wasnt in the forum/thread. The reason was that i travelled through half of germany to bavaria and only now came back. I there visited the company that will import the chips, i checked everything there and made a contract to ensure everything. Before doing this i got the permission from avalon support to change the addresses for the batch-orders afterwards. The support will change this now fast too i hope.

Now the import will go faster and without problems. Furthermore i made a deal with the company that, in case the vat is appropriate high, the company will make bills about the payable vat for the single groupbuyers. This case only applies in case the vat is appropriate high.

In case the bills will be needed for vat i would collect billing addresses and an emailaddress to send the bill to from all parttakers in the groupbuy. At the moment 268 members. For now it wont be necessary because i have a ticket with avalon where i ask for more detailed infos about this. In case avalon isnt answering soon i will call Yifu again. In case this wont help i will collect addresses preventive. Its better to be prepared then having to wait later.

So it looks like its slowly moving forward...

As we pay in bitcoins and bitcoins officially worth nothing, should we pay VAT?

Germany does not give a damn how you pay something.

Basically, if you import, there will be a question "How much is this worth" and if you paid in rupees, they are going daily course.

So, for this one, if they are progressive at customs, the best thing happening would be if they ask for a bill, to see the most ridiculous price drop in history, just to return the day after chip arrival

Sebastian have to have different explaines aboit possible very low,amost nothing, price or good explanation that resale value is almost nothing becouse of production method and these asics processors could not be used in any other project so no one need them....

Don't argue with german customs. If you want your money back and not pay taxes, you need to pay up first and then sue then. Making trouble with them can have a package laying at their facility for MONTHS or YEARS (Which you pay storage fees for) while the lawsuit is under way.

What you use things for, is completely irrelevant to them. Sales price is what counts. Type of good is only important for import customs fee, which is ZERO for semi-conductor electronics in the EU. So only VAT applies.

Here is my personal advice to german group buyers: Check with lawyer and Steuerberater first if you want to deduct the Einfuhrumsatzsteuer (Import VAT) at the end of the year. The moment you argue that you get the taxes back, you are a business. A business selling bitcoin might fall under regulation. And the moment you want your money back, you just admitted that you in fact, ARE a business selling bitcoin.
With §32 of the KWG, that might, from an ignorant and hardcore court (Are you in Munich or Hamburg? Have fun with these. Or in Nürnberg? Rosenheim? Get ready for this), become a federal felony offense worth jailtime.

[tiros]

Avalon for sure put some kind of Invoice with package, so that Invoice should be relevant.
Other thing is insurance of package in case something unpredictable happen.
Those are two variables should be taken into account to determine cost of customs.
Any lying about value of the goods (in case to go that way) and we have to be ready to never see those chips.
In case Avalon didn't send Invoice, we should ask them to provide it but I am sure that either of two mentioned is present (Invoice or insured value).

No argue with customs should be my advice and all disputes should be settled once and only after we do like we are told.

[FTWbitcoinFTW]

Again, talking about custom here is not the best idea...

[SebastianJu]

Today i practically wasnt in the forum/thread. The reason was that i travelled through half of germany to bavaria and only now came back. I there visited the company that will import the chips, i checked everything there and made a contract to ensure everything. Before doing this i got the permission from avalon support to change the addresses for the batch-orders afterwards. The support will change this now fast too i hope.

Now the import will go faster and without problems. Furthermore i made a deal with the company that, in case the vat is appropriate high, the company will make bills about the payable vat for the single groupbuyers. This case only applies in case the vat is appropriate high.

In case the bills will be needed for vat i would collect billing addresses and an emailaddress to send the bill to from all parttakers in the groupbuy. At the moment 268 members. For now it wont be necessary because i have a ticket with avalon where i ask for more detailed infos about this. In case avalon isnt answering soon i will call Yifu again. In case this wont help i will collect addresses preventive. Its better to be prepared then having to wait later.

So it looks like its slowly moving forward...

As we pay in bitcoins and bitcoins officially worth nothing, should we pay VAT?

Its not a question if we can avoid it. The chance that it goes through custom without anything is slim, though i know of smartphones that go through without. But the chips will be a bigger packet.

German vat is 19%. Thats around the vat all countries in the eu are paying. Only swiss has 9% vat but its not eu... when importing into swiss and then into eu we had the chance to pay vat twice. So its not an option.

The company that imports the chips is good news because this company has an EORI-Number. Its speeding up things. And its not a problem when a business imports a big number of chips.

Avalon IS providing a bill. Thats not the question.

[excalibur]

excalibur; 150; 12.90; 1wiwngJfZNsExRkGtiMfMjrn5okWo6Qcy

signature of username:
message: excalibur
address: 1wiwngJfZNsExRkGtiMfMjrn5okWo6Qcy
signature: IH3QoRi5vl/6n9SSZoReR2fgMVuGW3J8BKWSVSINd487QoKmHQ1PLt1rLSSJxmOx871A9Kzk/yDGkCZUzWhAp2g=

[excalibur]

I am going to buy 1500 from batch #6 if there's a progression.

There is the progress. You are now in to stand to your word.
Btw, my 150 chips aren't event listed there yet, so the actual number is at least 1213 chips sold.

[svetliopi44]

Hello, in this increasing difficulty, given that the chips and eventually you will have a working machine after 10-12 weeks ... is there any point in buying a 310 chip ... which will make 86,000?

[SebastianJu]

Hello, in this increasing difficulty, given that the chips and eventually you will have a working machine after 10-12 weeks ... is there any point in buying a 310 chip ... which will make 86,000?

Im not sure what you refer to, of course you have to do a risk analysis. But bfl-chips arent automatically better only because one chip has some GH alone. The GH there was practically the same like avalon asic's. Now they went down 25% and if one has a credit (most have to buy) he can get another 25%. Of course one has to keep in mind that the BFL chips take 100 days, thats 14.2 weeks instead the 9-10 weeks avalon needs. So the newer chips arent automatically better.

[oaxaca]

Hello Batch 1 buyers,

I was going to send my 60 chips to Burnin, but I want to try something different.  Down the street from me is an assembler that is going to use BkkCoins' Klondike design using 64 chips.  Can anyone sell me 4 chips from Batch 1 to allow me to have a complete 64 chip board?

I would be in your debt,
Oaxaca

[.m.]

I'd love to play with this great stuff, but missed orders
Would somebody sell me just couple chips to play with ?
I believe I can create the best USB stick available
godspeed to all !

[skomo]

Today i practically wasnt in the forum/thread. The reason was that i travelled through half of germany to bavaria and only now came back. I there visited the company that will import the chips, i checked everything there and made a contract to ensure everything. Before doing this i got the permission from avalon support to change the addresses for the batch-orders afterwards. The support will change this now fast too i hope.

Now the import will go faster and without problems. Furthermore i made a deal with the company that, in case the vat is appropriate high, the company will make bills about the payable vat for the single groupbuyers. This case only applies in case the vat is appropriate high.

In case the bills will be needed for vat i would collect billing addresses and an emailaddress to send the bill to from all parttakers in the groupbuy. At the moment 268 members. For now it wont be necessary because i have a ticket with avalon where i ask for more detailed infos about this. In case avalon isnt answering soon i will call Yifu again. In case this wont help i will collect addresses preventive. Its better to be prepared then having to wait later.

So it looks like its slowly moving forward...

As we pay in bitcoins and bitcoins officially worth nothing, should we pay VAT?

Its not a question if we can avoid it. The chance that it goes through custom without anything is slim, though i know of smartphones that go through without. But the chips will be a bigger packet.

German vat is 19%. Thats around the vat all countries in the eu are paying. Only swiss has 9% vat but its not eu... when importing into swiss and then into eu we had the chance to pay vat twice. So its not an option.

The company that imports the chips is good news because this company has an EORI-Number. Its speeding up things. And its not a problem when a business imports a big number of chips.

Avalon IS providing a bill. Thats not the question.

If I understand correctly most of the chips are going to burnin. Idealy he should import them and pay the VAT, as he can then deduct this VAT payment from his VAT payble from board sales to EU customers. It's more cumbersome to manage, but if done correctly will save the money either for burnin or to the group if he passes it on. In your scenario I assume the company you found will get the credit and will keep it to itself.

[Schrankwand]

Today i practically wasnt in the forum/thread. The reason was that i travelled through half of germany to bavaria and only now came back. I there visited the company that will import the chips, i checked everything there and made a contract to ensure everything. Before doing this i got the permission from avalon support to change the addresses for the batch-orders afterwards. The support will change this now fast too i hope.

Now the import will go faster and without problems. Furthermore i made a deal with the company that, in case the vat is appropriate high, the company will make bills about the payable vat for the single groupbuyers. This case only applies in case the vat is appropriate high.

In case the bills will be needed for vat i would collect billing addresses and an emailaddress to send the bill to from all parttakers in the groupbuy. At the moment 268 members. For now it wont be necessary because i have a ticket with avalon where i ask for more detailed infos about this. In case avalon isnt answering soon i will call Yifu again. In case this wont help i will collect addresses preventive. Its better to be prepared then having to wait later.

So it looks like its slowly moving forward...

As we pay in bitcoins and bitcoins officially worth nothing, should we pay VAT?

Its not a question if we can avoid it. The chance that it goes through custom without anything is slim, though i know of smartphones that go through without. But the chips will be a bigger packet.

German vat is 19%. Thats around the vat all countries in the eu are paying. Only swiss has 9% vat but its not eu... when importing into swiss and then into eu we had the chance to pay vat twice. So its not an option.

The company that imports the chips is good news because this company has an EORI-Number. Its speeding up things. And its not a problem when a business imports a big number of chips.

Avalon IS providing a bill. Thats not the question.

If I understand correctly most of the chips are going to burnin. Idealy he should import them and pay the VAT, as he can then deduct this VAT payment from his VAT payble from board sales to EU customers. It's more cumbersome to manage, but if done correctly will save the money either for burnin or to the group if he passes it on. In your scenario I assume the company you found will get the credit and will keep it to itself.

This thing is through, Sebastian is importing through a company that will deal with these issues. burnin is a developer and a new business. If you have ever dealt with german ministry of finance, you know he wouldn't do this just to "pull through" the chip orders. At least not, if he does not want tax advance bills above 20k a month next year.

In Germany, you always charge the VAT to every customer by the way. You cannot avoid it in most cases. A difference is, and I love this one since I get to use it, is if the company you are dealing with is bound to a reverse charge rule and you are providing a type of non touchable service (Device sales don't work, my consulting work does). In that case, that service is understood as being undertaken in the vicinity of the buyer's jurisdiction, meaning I can deduct the VAT from the boards.

BUT, if you have 300-400 customers, this is a HUGE pain in the ass to verify. If I was burnin, I wouldn't do it and simply send out stuff with VAT applied and those who are VAT exempt can simply do the paperwork. I hate this paperwork

[CumpsD]

Actually, you don't charge VAT to every customer.

If I buy something with my Belgian company, from a German company, the VAT is 0%, with a line on the invoice stating it is an intra-eu purchase.

If I would resell it inside Belgium, I'd have to add VAT to my invoice.

That's what I like from buying across EU countries, no VAT hassle

[Schrankwand]

Actually, you don't charge VAT to every customer.

If I buy something with my Belgian company, from a German company, the VAT is 0%, with a line on the invoice stating it is an intra-eu purchase.

If I would resell it inside Belgium, I'd have to add VAT to my invoice.

That's what I like from buying across EU countries, no VAT hassle

That is Intra-EU

And it requires you having their EU-USt. ID. Still pain in the ass for me

[Kiders]

shouldt we start seeing batch nr1 being delivered soon ?