[Group Buy] Avalon ASIC Chips (SebastianJu) Batch 6 ordered (Closed)

[a2offrb]

*Post edited*
Yufu is making refund form.
I vote for refund. (My order in batch 1)
Even if we take 1,72/20 chips and bitburners 20 chips board for 100€ it make atleast 2,72 BTC.
If we get it in september that it will not see ROI
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/f14ab13c9e
I havent even calculated any power costs.

[itod]

*Post edited*
Yufu is making refund form.
I vote for refund. (My order in batch 1)
Even if we take 1,72/20 chips and bitburners 20 chips board for 100€ it make atleast 2,72 BTC.
If we get it in september that it will not see ROI
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/f14ab13c9e
I havent even calculated any power costs.

Best news in a long time! This is our chance. Sebastian please consider a refund, look's like Yifu is serious about it.

+1 for refund!

[a2offrb]

Btw:

I am tired of this toxic community malformed by greed.

Man, you've got quite some nerve for posting this. A full refund will not solve the issue. Please explain the 1+ million chips delivery that showed up in pictures from June? So, where did they end up?

batch 3? the amount was never 1+ million chips. if one 1+ million chips did show up in june, none of this would be happening and difficulty would NOT be this low, do some math.

also people seem to not make the connect to sudden raise of difficulty to us shipping batch 3 and bitfury's http://ghash.io pool coming online...

brb making refund form, I'm done with this.

Here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.msg3030839#msg3030839

[pajak666]

+1 for refund, I can even take like 5-10% fee to cover the expenses of burnin and other assemblers.
Good idea would be to gather together those who want chips and those who want refunds and keep order of 1 or 2 batches

[Roy Badami]

Most of the discussion of this seems to be happening in zefir's thread atm, but as I said there:

Option B would be the best outcome, though not for burnin and other developers.

Also not for customers who have already paid burnin.

Also not for those of us who don't want burnin to get seriously screwed by this, because we are looking forward to the Bitfury boards he's planning to design.

(I'm in SebastianJu's group buy, not zefir's)

Personally I don't quite see why 0.35BTC/Ghash for something you can't actually get hold of is such a gamechanger, anyway.  A BFL Single is 0.35BTC/Ghash for something you can't actually get hold of, too.

roy

[itod]

+1 for refund, I can even take like 5-10% fee to cover the expenses of burnin and other assemblers.

I'm also OK with getting -10% of full refund to help those who payed to Burnin. Main goal is to get one, if we don't we will lose much more, and we should be fair in the process.

[CumpsD]

We have 6 batches, maybe we should make a list of how many chips want a refund and then ask for the latest batches, and distribute the first batches among people who haven't asked for a refund (if they ever show up)

[stripykitteh]

+1 for refund, I can even take like 5-10% fee to cover the expenses of burnin and other assemblers.

I'm also OK with getting -10% of full refund to help those who payed to Burnin. Main goal is to get one, if we don't we will lose much more, and we should be fair in the process.

Yeah, if someone offered me 90% right now of what I paid I'd take it to put this to rest.

[chirale]

We have 6 batches, maybe we should make a list of how many chips want a refund and then ask for the latest batches, and distribute the first batches among people who haven't asked for a refund (if they ever show up)

Is a good idea...potentially tricky to organise, but definitely interesting solution!
I ordered 100 chips in batch 6 and to be honest at this point I don't care of the ROI... I want to see them! We have been per-ordering and waiting for everything in the bitcoin word and now is time to "receive" something...even if we are not gonna make a penny out it...sadly!

[Zich]

I buy my batch 1 chip through auction with more high price & already paid for assembly so i don't want refund.
But in case all batch buyer voted for refund, then of course i can't refused the refund 

[Ubachef]

+1
I also vote for a refund (batch 6)

edit: actually batch 3

[blo]

I am definitely for a refund, but Burnin will refund only 50% (i'm in batch 5).

[itod]

We have 6 batches, maybe we should make a list of how many chips want a refund and then ask for the latest batches, and distribute the first batches among people who haven't asked for a refund (if they ever show up)

+1

[FTWbitcoinFTW]

+1 for refund (batch 2)

[pajak666]

I am definitely for a refund, but Burnin will refund only 50% (i'm in batch 5).

he will refund 50% of parts and boards ie. 50% of orders made by his shop, not chips ordered.

[blo]

I am definitely for a refund, but Burnin will refund only 50% (i'm in batch 5).

he will refund 50% of parts and boards ie. 50% of orders made by his shop, not chips ordered.

I understand, but I made an order on his website on the launch day.

[g83]

I am definitely for a refund, but Burnin will refund only 50% (i'm in batch 5).

he will refund 50% of parts and boards ie. 50% of orders made by his shop, not chips ordered.

I understand, but I made an order on his website on the launch day.

50% + full price of chips could be more than the mining revenue we can get when the chips finally arrive - if they ever will

[guitar82]

FYI

Dear BitSyncom,

I organized one of the first group-buys for Avalon ASICs with a total of 80k chips during the second half of April. I already received the first two orders, and while they arrived later than agreed, I understand the difficulties you faced with delivery and am happy to have enabled some DIY projects to produce boards with an expected break-even potential.

With the further delays and the recent development in the mining market, we already passed the point where your chips will ever see a ROI. While the accelerated development of next-gen ASICs and the resulting increase in difficulty is every miners' risk issue, the delay is not. Decision to order the chips was based on your ToS giving a 9-10 weeks delivery time, and with the remaining orders being late for at least 8 weeks you for sure are aware that the chips lost their chance to make back their investment.

As you can imagine, all users desperately waiting for their chips are becoming more and more impatient. I personally have ~200 very sad and upset people in my group-buy and I feel very desperate and helpless not being able to do anything about it.

Yifu, it is only some months ago where you have been one of the most respected and honored person in Bitcoinland. I strongly believe that all this mess is a result of issues out of your control. Nevertheless with power comes responsibility, and now it is on you to take responsibility for the masses of folks out there who put serious amount of coins into your chips. If you really care about Bitcoin and its community, you can't just stand there and watch how disappointed users leave the scene.

As group-buy organizer and large-scale buyer I would like to suggest you several options to compensate chip-buyers for the late delivery:
a) refund: no chips, full refund
b) compensation in BTC: deliver chips, compensate XX% of the initial price
c) compensation in chips: deliver chips, add YY% more chips as compensation
d) compensation by upgrades: no chips, convert orders to next-gen chip orders

Would you be willing and capable to consider those suggestions? If so, I'd be glad to negotiate between my group-buyers and you to reach some agreement acceptable for both sides. Also, I would include other group-buy organizers to come to a generic agreement. For the sake of Bitcoin, please come back to me and let's bring this, that poisoned the community already enough, to an end.


Best Regards
zefir

I'm glad the group buyer leaders are more understanding.

a) I am very open to this, this is what I suggest.
b) I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)
c) this will not be good, as you know the chips isn't going to get here any faster, and ordering more would run into more delays ( this is the worst option, do not offer.)
d) while in theory this option sounds the best for us right? we keep the money, tout our gen2/3/4 chips and etc etc, but reality is we want to stay away from all pre-orders in the future. as you can imagine, all the problems, rumors and just about everything is caused by the fact we took pre-orders, and we will no longer be doing this.

you are welcome to post this in your thread.

So option a sucks for people like me that still want their chips. Option B sucks because people that have waited in queue for months now have to try to reorder when they have them?

Maybe we can refund the later orders and distribute the earlier ones to people that still want them?

[SebastianJu]

It looks like Yifu really prefers a full refund to get out of all this terror.

So i now will start to write every member and ask what its wish is. But i know from the past that it will take much time until i know the answer of everyone.

Was passiert wenn am Ende weniger als 10000 Chips gewünscht bleiben müssen wir sehen. Und ich frage mich auch ob es ok ist wenn ich 95% der gezahlten Bitcoins erstatte damit ich nicht ganz auf den angefallenen Kosten und der Arbeit sitzen bleibe.

What happens when at the end less than 10k chips are wished to deliver. And i ask myself if its ok when i pay out 95% of the paid bitcoins at the end so that i dont have to sit alone on the accrued costs and the work time.

Dear BitSyncom,

I organized one of the first group-buys for Avalon ASICs with a total of 80k chips during the second half of April. I already received the first two orders, and while they arrived later than agreed, I understand the difficulties you faced with delivery and am happy to have enabled some DIY projects to produce boards with an expected break-even potential.

With the further delays and the recent development in the mining market, we already passed the point where your chips will ever see a ROI. While the accelerated development of next-gen ASICs and the resulting increase in difficulty is every miners' risk issue, the delay is not. Decision to order the chips was based on your ToS giving a 9-10 weeks delivery time, and with the remaining orders being late for at least 8 weeks you for sure are aware that the chips lost their chance to make back their investment.

As you can imagine, all users desperately waiting for their chips are becoming more and more impatient. I personally have ~200 very sad and upset people in my group-buy and I feel very desperate and helpless not being able to do anything about it.

Yifu, it is only some months ago where you have been one of the most respected and honored person in Bitcoinland. I strongly believe that all this mess is a result of issues out of your control. Nevertheless with power comes responsibility, and now it is on you to take responsibility for the masses of folks out there who put serious amount of coins into your chips. If you really care about Bitcoin and its community, you can't just stand there and watch how disappointed users leave the scene.

As group-buy organizer and large-scale buyer I would like to suggest you several options to compensate chip-buyers for the late delivery:
a) refund: no chips, full refund
b) compensation in BTC: deliver chips, compensate XX% of the initial price
c) compensation in chips: deliver chips, add YY% more chips as compensation
d) compensation by upgrades: no chips, convert orders to next-gen chip orders

Would you be willing and capable to consider those suggestions? If so, I'd be glad to negotiate between my group-buyers and you to reach some agreement acceptable for both sides. Also, I would include other group-buy organizers to come to a generic agreement. For the sake of Bitcoin, please come back to me and let's bring this, that poisoned the community already enough, to an end.


Best Regards
zefir

I'm glad the group buyer leaders are more understanding.

a) I am very open to this, this is what I suggest.
b) I am not a fan of this, on a principle level I rather do a full refund. plus, I rather sell the chips once we have them in hand at a discount, instead of letting people wait.( which is about the same as doing a partial refund in my opinion.)
c) this will not be good, as you know the chips isn't going to get here any faster, and ordering more would run into more delays ( this is the worst option, do not offer.)
d) while in theory this option sounds the best for us right? we keep the money, tout our gen2/3/4 chips and etc etc, but reality is we want to stay away from all pre-orders in the future. as you can imagine, all the problems, rumors and just about everything is caused by the fact we took pre-orders, and we will no longer be doing this.

you are welcome to post this in your thread.

[FTWbitcoinFTW]

No1 gonna keep those unless chips :/
So many bach before us !
You can ask for full refund right now !