⚽ Football Transfers Speculation, Odds and Predictions

[Nheer]

Please welcome Dovbyk to AS Roma!

Roma still not yet have a reliable striker for their team, they've tried all of their players including Lukaku and Abraham, but the result is disappointed. Now they choose to sign one season wonder from Girona.

Girona might not able to compete in La Liga and Champions League since they choose to sell their players instead of retain them.

It’s not a bad move at all but if Lukaku and Abraham couldn’t succeed i don’t think it will be the fault of the players at all, could be the management fault or something. It will all be clear if Dovbyk doesn’t perform well for them, i don’t doubt his abilities at all but the Italian league is far more stronger than the La Liga so adapting can be a bit challenging.

Lukaku is back to Chelsea and AC Milan have shown an interest in Abraham but nothing has been finalized yet.

Fabrizio Romano just confirmed Ederson deal to be off, it’s another relief for Manchester City and Guardiola as Al Ittihad just signed a new goalkeeper which means Ederson can stay for an additional season. First it was Kevin De Bruyne’s link to Saudi league which didn’t work out now it’s Ederson.

https://x.com/fabrizioromano/status/1819621219500806267?s=46

[slapper]

Please welcome Dovbyk to AS Roma!

Roma still not yet have a reliable striker for their team, they've tried all of their players including Lukaku and Abraham, but the result is disappointed. Now they choose to sign one season wonder from Girona.

Girona might not able to compete in La Liga and Champions League since they choose to sell their players instead of retain them.

Yes, Dovbyk to Rome is a nice move, but transferring from La Liga to Serie A is like changing brands. Literally, it's another game. Girona selling star striker? It boosts their bank account, but does it show their ambition? A Champions League dream?

With Abraham's future uncertain and Lukaku on loan, Roma should sign Dovbyk. Everyone knows chemistry takes time. Dovbyk excelled at Girona, but repeating such form elsewhere? Doubting it

Still, please root for him, but don't expect weekly hat-tricks. He'll need to learn Serie A tactics and bond with his new teammates. It's a process, not an overnight miracle

[mammusu]

You have it all mixed up, the coaching change happened because Xavi demanded new transfers, and Flick agreed that he would work without new transfer spending in the offseason. Obviously, this move when they decided not to extend Felix's loan and take Fati in his place. In fact, they should have kept Felix and taken Fati and maybe a few other good players, but the reality is that they simply cannot afford it.

Hansi Flick and Xavi Hernandez are different coach coming for the exact perspectives. Flick clinches on an incredible squad, he's ready to make things look easier for Barcelona while Xavi Hernandez also coupled with the rough season of Barcelona, he didn't give up and put in the work. The president, Joan Laporta was no longer comfortable with the system, he just had to find a way to ensure the safety of the club because they were trophyless the previous season, and making no encouraging stands, prompts him to fired Xavi and go in for Hansi Flick.

In fact, Barcelona finished second in La Liga last season, this result does not mean that Xavi is bad at managing the team. Xavi has done his job well, even managing very well compared to Barcelona's financial situation. There was a time when President Joan Laporta had to beg Xavi to continue as the team's coach, but soon after President Joan Laporta changed 180 degrees. The reason for this, I think, is probably because the two sides had some disagreement in their words. Barcelona's directors were reportedly so angry at Xavi's public comments about the club's finances before the end of the season that they were so furious that they terminated Xavi's contract.
As for new coach Hansi Flick, he certainly won't discuss Barcelona's financial situation.

Xavi dismissal last season by Laporta was one of the most surprising things and actually did not deserve Xavi acceptance after everything he had given to Barcelona so far, Xavi had succeeded and was able to keep Barcelona competing in La Liga even though they were in a bad financial condition and when coaching Barcelona, ​​I never heard the news that Xavi was forcing Barcelona to recruit new players and that's why I really applaud Xavi coaching, which was actually able to bring Barcelona to the championship competition path in his two coaching seasons even though he only relied on the minimum of players, Hansi Flick previously said that he will maximize the Barcelona Academy players because La Masia is one of the academies that continues to produce great young stars, but in fact, currently Barcelona is even forcing themselves to try to buy Dani Olmo and Nico William, so I think Hansi Flick is unlikely to be able to do something like that what did xavi do without the support of new players with star status.

[barisbilgili]

Xavi dismissal last season by Laporta was one of the most surprising things and actually did not deserve Xavi acceptance after everything he had given to Barcelona so far, Xavi had succeeded and was able to keep Barcelona competing in La Liga even though they were in a bad financial condition and when coaching Barcelona, ​​I never heard the news that Xavi was forcing Barcelona to recruit new players and that's why I really applaud Xavi coaching, which was actually able to bring Barcelona to the championship competition path in his two coaching seasons even though he only relied on the minimum of players, Hansi Flick previously said that he will maximize the Barcelona Academy players because La Masia is one of the academies that continues to produce great young stars, but in fact, currently Barcelona is even forcing themselves to try to buy Dani Olmo and Nico William, so I think Hansi Flick is unlikely to be able to do something like that what did xavi do without the support of new players with star status.

Xavi was not fired but he resigned from the Barcelona coaching seat, and indeed the job of being a Barcelona coach with all the problems currently being faced by this team is not easy.
And Hansi Flick is also risking his career as a coach by accepting this job, it is not easy to be able to develop the performance of the Barcelona team with all the problems and having to compete with strong teams like Real Madrid.

Hansi Flick who is trying to build the Barcelona team with players in the academy and also combining them with senior players is not an easy thing, it might take a long time for Hansi Flick to be able to develop the performance of the Barcelona team and that is if Barcelona management can give time.

[Oluwa-btc]

If Victor Osimhen is becoming too expensive for Chelsea to be able to afford, why don't they go for other strikers in the market that'll be less expensive and have some experience in the premier league already. Chelsea aren't going to be playing champions league football therefore it is going to be hard to get them to sign big players without putting big fees on the table. Chelsea mess up when they played very badly last season and lost the chances to play in Europa, with that competition Chelsea would had being able to get top players to come play and build with them. Before Chelsea waste money on players they should look at other options available.

If Victor Oshime is too expensive, have you clarified the valuation for the players on this image?! They're not so different from Victor Oshime if you ask me. Alexander Isaak has premier league experience but he is currently place 120m euros, the same goes to Viktor Gyokeres who is over a hundred million euros likewise. Victor Oshime remains the main deal but since Todd Boehly took charge, Chelsea gradually looking like a profit making club.

That's said. Despite lacking Champions League football, Victor Oshime still remains the only man wanting to swing into Chelsea.. This is honestly not that time to lament honestly. They should look for solutions to solve the striker role. They rely on Nicholas Jackson and it'll be another try and error season.

In conclusion, Chelsea defense seem to be in shambles, hopefully they'll get in shape before Manchester City. Recce James will not be able to play the first two games or three when the season kicks off.

[armanda90]

Please welcome Dovbyk to AS Roma!

Roma still not yet have a reliable striker for their team, they've tried all of their players including Lukaku and Abraham, but the result is disappointed. Now they choose to sign one season wonder from Girona.

Girona might not able to compete in La Liga and Champions League since they choose to sell their players instead of retain them.

Finally AS Roma brave for spending around 38 million euro for signing La Liga top scorer season 2023/24 Artem Dovbyk from Girona, the speculation have been over and Ukrainian forward will replace one position leave by Romelu Lukaku linked join to Napoli.
Arriving Artem Dovbyk make AS Roma have two top striker after Tammy Abraham but his performance still not consistent yet since recovery from injury and Artem Dovbyk will make completed with Roma attacking line position for next season.

Artem Dovbyk take braveness decision leaving Girona who qualified to Champion League next season and he will participants in UEFA Europe League with AS Roma for next season. Interested for him will back to back success become top scorer after this season reach 24 goals and become La Liga top scorer how possibility reach over 24 goals next season with Roma?

[mamesso]

Please welcome Dovbyk to AS Roma!

Roma still not yet have a reliable striker for their team, they've tried all of their players including Lukaku and Abraham, but the result is disappointed. Now they choose to sign one season wonder from Girona.

Girona might not able to compete in La Liga and Champions League since they choose to sell their players instead of retain them.

Roma managed to make a big breakthrough in this transfer market, recruiting Dovbyk was a success for Roma in the transfer market because they succeeded in getting the top scorer in La Liga in the previous season. Roma did not hesitate to give Dovbyk a long-term contract until June 30, 2029 because of his excellent reputation with Girona.
Girona can use the money that comes into their account to buy other players, Dovbyk departure will certainly make Girona attack line even more blunt, they have to look for other players who are able to fill the void left by Dovbyk. That's what happens when a small club has quality players, they can't resist big offers from other clubs. Girona, who will compete in the Champions League, will have a harder time competing because one of their goal machines has moved to another club.

[punk.zink]

Xavi was not fired but he resigned from the Barcelona coaching seat, and indeed the job of being a Barcelona coach with all the problems currently being faced by this team is not easy.
And Hansi Flick is also risking his career as a coach by accepting this job, it is not easy to be able to develop the performance of the Barcelona team with all the problems and having to compete with strong teams like Real Madrid.

Initially, Xavi intended to resign from Barcelona but after seeing how their supporters still really hoped that he would not leave them, then Xavi made a uturn. After that, everything seemed to be fine until Xavi made a statement. Xavi spoke about how difficult their chances are next season if nothing changes (in terms of financial support) and it turns out that words made Laporta angry and he decided to fire Xavi.

[Velvet78]

Anthony Gordon had a really wonderful season in the Premier League the last time.



He is once again rumoured with Liverpool.    He has 2 years left on his contract and in the meantime Newcastle is also trying to convince him for a new contract. If Liverpool shows their intention with an official offer, I think Gordon would like to sign for them. He is a really great talent and still quite young (23). He can be more successful with Liverpool. However he should be ready for a big competition in LW position too. Because there are players like Luis Diaz, Gakpo already there.

https://www.givemesport.com/liverpool-appreciate-anthony-gordon-internally/

[red4slash]

He is once again rumoured with Liverpool.    He has 2 years left on his contract and in the meantime Newcastle is also trying to convince him for a new contract. If Liverpool shows their intention with an official offer, I think Gordon would like to sign for them. He is a really great talent and still quite young (23). He can be more successful with Liverpool. However he should be ready for a big competition in LW position too. Because there are players like Luis Diaz, Gakpo already there.

https://www.givemesport.com/liverpool-appreciate-anthony-gordon-internally/

This is what they should have done in the first place but it looks like they would rather hold back and surprise their fans after a few weeks of silence there are finally rumors about Liverpool at the moment

Slot has to work harder with the offer because after all for now the transfer season is a few weeks away and he has to be quicker in negotiating for the situation to be favorable for them.  Gordon has good fighting power although he is not very fast but for endurance problems he is quite good.
Some rumors say that he is offered at a price of 75 million and that is clearly tempting even though Newcastle is currently a rich club but they will definitely respond to this offer.  But im not sure if Newcastle will release this player before there is a suitable replacement for Gordon in the Newcastle attack.

[abhiseshakana]

What is certain is that Scott McTominay has short contract and this is good opportunity for Manchester United to be able to make money from the sale of the player, if he leaves on free transfer then it is loss for Manchester United.
Indeed, Scott McTominay is always in front or can be said to be one of Manchester United core players in every match, but his performance is less than satisfactory and still less than perfect.
If the sale can happen and is able to take other better players then it can be very helpful and provide changes to Manchester United performance next season.

For now Manchester United is still opening up opportunities for Fulham if they still want to get Scott McTominay, they must increase the amount of the offer to be able to reach an agreement, if it is around £ 25 million or more maybe it can be accepted.
But I just read some trusted news media that I always follow also gave some statements about Tottenham being ready to bring in Scott McTominay if Fulham fails to reach an agreement.

I don't think Man United will lose McTominay on a free transfer because, besides Fulham, it seems that Tottenham and Galatasaray are also quite interested in McTominay. Now Man United just has to decide which of the three clubs can give them more benefits. McTominay didn't play badly last season but he doesn't seem to be a player who is part of Ten Hag's long-term plans. Moreover, with the injury suffered by Leny Yoro, making Man United needs another new defender but it seems that this can only happen if they get fresh income. Therefore selling McTominay could be a very good option for a new signing.

[bitLeap]

Please welcome Dovbyk to AS Roma!

Roma still not yet have a reliable striker for their team, they've tried all of their players including Lukaku and Abraham, but the result is disappointed. Now they choose to sign one season wonder from Girona.

Girona might not able to compete in La Liga and Champions League since they choose to sell their players instead of retain them.

Congratulations to Roma fans who were able to bring in a La Liga Top Scorer. Although Roma did not enter the UCL competition next season, Dovbyk appeal to this club was big enough that it didn't take long for Roma transfer management to bring him in. On the other hand, Girona actually lost its big foundation because of Dovbyk quite important contribution which brought Girona up the La Liga standings and into the UCL. Who knows what will happen if Girona loses its important striker and I think there will be a significant impact on Girona in La Liga which has the potential to no longer be able to provide tight competition like last season.

[Leviathan.007]

Source: https://tribuna.com/en/news/fcbarcelona-2024-07-04-ansu-fati-to-replace-joao-felix-at-barca-next-season
Don't get me wrong i don't say Fati is not good but he might play half of the season & injured the rest of the season

Actually, right now Barcelona is obviously in a poor financial situation. Taking these decisions definitely does not look very good for the future of Barcelona. But at the same time, not bringing in any players that the new coach wants will also not be good for the financial situation of Barcelona. That's why I think it was a big mistake for Barcelona to actually bring in a new coach in this situation. Now that they have brought in new coach, they will have to spend more money than they needed to if they had Xavi. But Barcelona have to spend right now, right? that's why they are trying to do almost anything to bring in the players that they want. Installments plans are not good for both parties in my opinion. And especially for the party that is selling the player. so it is understandable why many clubs or the clubs that Barcelona has approached for the players are not that interested in the team.

You have it all mixed up, the coaching change happened because Xavi demanded new transfers, and Flick agreed that he would work without new transfer spending in the offseason. Obviously, this move when they decided not to extend Felix's loan and take Fati in his place. In fact, they should have kept Felix and taken Fati and maybe a few other good players, but the reality is that they simply cannot afford it.

I still can't understand what Laporta is doing in Barcelona. They hired Felix and got this player for a loan while he was also very much interested in playing for Barcelona b he couldn't have a good performance like we were expecting to see from this player and that's why he is about to leave the team since Barcelona can't spend money to keep Felix in the team.
On the other hand, they didn't use Fati and he was about to leave because of the offers he had from the Saudi League which can give Barcelona a good amount of money, now it seems Flick wants to keep Fati in Barcelona for the next season which is wired to me.

[naira]

I am of the opinion that Chelsea is not at all interested in spending crazy amounts of money to buy Victor Osimhen, he has blatantly said that he would like to go and play in France and PSG was interested in the player but with the arrival of Antonio Conte at Napoli he will probably be able to stay one more year.

It was precisely the arrival of Antonio Conte that put Osimhen in an unclear situation. Conte did not include Osimhen in the main squad plan and instead wanted to take Lukaku instead. Conte and Lukaku have a special relationship so there is no other way but to kick Osimhen from his position. PSG dared to buy Osimhen but not at the price Napoli wanted so until now the deal has not continued. The same is true with Chelsea who did not dare to spend money at a fantastic price. So the Osimhen problem seems unlikely to be realized this season and the last option is to wait for Conte to change his mind and make him a main player.

~~
No club will literally accept to sell their players on an installment payment at all and for a team like Barcelona to think of buying players on installments is a very big shame on the club's management, however if they recover from this financial state they are in now, the club's management must have learnt a lot of lessons.

I couldn't stop laughing when I read your post. Anyway, looking at this situation in Barcelona, makes me sad and also laugh, because once upon a time, Barcelona was known as a big club and the competitive rival of Real Madrid, but after seeing current conditions, it makes one laugh 😂 that now Barcelona would now buy players on installation. By the way, you rightly said that these people in Barcelona should drown in shame because, because of the corrupt staff, Barcelona cannot afford to buy a player. 
 
Shame 😔 on them

As long as there is no breakthrough made by Laporta against Barcelona management staff, we will continue to see this club running in place. Barcelona problems are quite complicated to solve one by one because of both internal problems in Barcelona and external problems related to other clubs where Barcelona arrears are still very large. Barcelona management staff cares about their own interests and does not care about the overall situation of the club.

[hyudien]

Please welcome Dovbyk to AS Roma!

Roma still not yet have a reliable striker for their team, they've tried all of their players including Lukaku and Abraham, but the result is disappointed. Now they choose to sign one season wonder from Girona.

Girona might not able to compete in La Liga and Champions League since they choose to sell their players instead of retain them.

Congratulations to Roma fans who were able to bring in a La Liga Top Scorer. Although Roma did not enter the UCL competition next season, Dovbyk appeal to this club was big enough that it didn't take long for Roma transfer management to bring him in. On the other hand, Girona actually lost its big foundation because of Dovbyk quite important contribution which brought Girona up the La Liga standings and into the UCL. Who knows what will happen if Girona loses its important striker and I think there will be a significant impact on Girona in La Liga which has the potential to no longer be able to provide tight competition like last season.

Dovbyk was a mainstay in Girona last season, now AS Roma can get his signature, that's really good for them, but I hope Dovbyk can also give a very good performance with Barcelona and he can adapt quickly. There are many good players but when he moved to another team his performance actually declined and hopefully that won't be the case with Dovbyk at AS Roma. AS Roma now looks more serious about building a team, previously when the transfer market they were like a team that didn't want to move to get players who played well, but now they have more movement and I hope that will be good for them. Indeed they must realize that they also have to bring in many new players to provide competition in Serie A, because other teams have also shown good improvements in the last few seasons. So if they don't move then they will be left behind even further.

[BitcoinHunt3r]

Dovbyk was a mainstay in Girona last season, now AS Roma can get his signature, that's really good for them, but I hope Dovbyk can also give a very good performance with Barcelona and he can adapt quickly. There are many good players but when he moved to another team his performance actually declined and hopefully that won't be the case with Dovbyk at AS Roma. AS Roma now looks more serious about building a team, previously when the transfer market they were like a team that didn't want to move to get players who played well, but now they have more movement and I hope that will be good for them. Indeed they must realize that they also have to bring in many new players to provide competition in Serie A, because other teams have also shown good improvements in the last few seasons. So if they don't move then they will be left behind even further.

You are right, AS Roma looks more serious about competing this season, we can see that from their activities in the transfer window. If last season AS Roma only spent 19 million, then in this transfer window AS Roma has already spent 88 million for 5 players only well we can assume that Roma already has enough budget to build a squad, I have to say Daniele De Rossi was lucky to come when AS Roma's finances were starting to recover and he can bring in the players he is looking for. What do you think about the current squad + the new one? will AS Roma be able to compete in the top 4? AS Roma is also the most active team in the transfer window, especially from Serie A.

[bitgolden]

Mikel Merino is about to join Arsenal and play for this team soon. Arsenal want to get the team improved and finally win the premier league title from Manchester City after years of losing it and that's why they decided to hire more players for Arteta.
They want to hire Mikel Merino the player of Real Sociedad. Merino has good physics and since he is not going to expensive option for Arsenal and they should only pay 30 million euros he is a good option for Arteta and his team.

While I do agree that Arsenal is trying their very best and getting anyone they can get, that doesn't mean that it's Merino that will make the difference. They feel like they are making transfers based on just what they think will work or they are transferring players like a rush, and that's not a good way at all.

I think instead of getting bunch of smaller names, if they could have gotten someone who is just a little bit decent, we could have done better and that's the most important part. I believe that we are going to face a ton of issues and we should just make sure that we are dealing with an issue that would actually be much sharper instead of tiny improvements here and there. They even improve their bench, their bench, it's the Effing bench, they need a star and instead they are improving the bench?

They will never win the title this way, you improve your bench when your team is amazing, look at City, they won so much before they started to get players who are starter level quality but for their bench, before that they had nobody great. Arsenal needs to get stars, without stars they are not going to win, they don't have their own KDB or Haaland or Rodri etc etc, get them first.

[Mr.right85]

Mikel Merino is about to join Arsenal and play for this team soon. Arsenal want to get the team improved and finally win the premier league title from Manchester City after years of losing it and that's why they decided to hire more players for Arteta.
They want to hire Mikel Merino the player of Real Sociedad. Merino has good physics and since he is not going to expensive option for Arsenal and they should only pay 30 million euros he is a good option for Arteta and his team.

While I do agree that Arsenal is trying their very best and getting anyone they can get, that doesn't mean that it's Merino that will make the difference. They feel like they are making transfers based on just what they think will work or they are transferring players like a rush, and that's not a good way at all.

I think instead of getting bunch of smaller names, if they could have gotten someone who is just a little bit decent, we could have done better and that's the most important part. I believe that we are going to face a ton of issues and we should just make sure that we are dealing with an issue that would actually be much sharper instead of tiny improvements here and there. They even improve their bench, their bench, it's the Effing bench, they need a star and instead they are improving the bench?

They will never win the title this way, you improve your bench when your team is amazing, look at City, they won so much before they started to get players who are starter level quality but for their bench, before that they had nobody great. Arsenal needs to get stars, without stars they are not going to win, they don't have their own KDB or Haaland or Rodri etc etc, get them first.

The difference between Manchester City squad and Arsenal’s is the age difference. These Manchester City players you just mentioned are above 27 except Halaand. Arsenal have a policy which is to identify younger players and bring them to the team. They have added a few overage (>25) players and we have seen how far these players have taken them.

Arteta want to reinforce his team ahead of next season. They have many competitions to participate in and they will need some rotation in these games instead of featuring your first team and risking them to fatigue and tiredness.
Also, Arsenal do not have the financial resources to buy enough quality in their team like Manchester City. They are trying to get who they can get now so they can challenge for the league title and other domestic cup competitions.
Merino is a good addition. He’s a quality player and I know what he can offer in this Arsenal team when called upon.

[bering]

Anthony Gordon had a really wonderful season in the Premier League the last time.



He is once again rumoured with Liverpool.    He has 2 years left on his contract and in the meantime Newcastle is also trying to convince him for a new contract. If Liverpool shows their intention with an official offer, I think Gordon would like to sign for them. He is a really great talent and still quite young (23). He can be more successful with Liverpool. However he should be ready for a big competition in LW position too. Because there are players like Luis Diaz, Gakpo already there.

https://www.givemesport.com/liverpool-appreciate-anthony-gordon-internally/

I have been discuss about this rumour and previously i was said Liverpool seems is really serious want to buy Anthony Gordon from Newcastle and Liverpool even offering some money plus Joe Gomez as part of the deal and seems this offers is very tempting for Newcastle especially Newcastle also want to sell Anthony Gordon because they don't want to gets Financial Fair Play regulation so in my opinion most likely this transfer will be happened

Besides Anthony Gordon it says Liverpool was targetting Sporting player Viktor Gyokeres and reported Arsenal recently has been withdraw to gets this player because Arsenal feel the price tag which provide by Sporting is too high for Viktor Gyokeres and after seeing this condition Liverpool want to hijack this transfer with attempts to gets Viktor Gyokeres too and a bit different compared to Arsenal because Liverpool rumoured is dare to pay according to Viktor Gyokeres price tag and in the near future Liverpool officially will bid for this player

If this transfer happened then Liverpool will have new face for forward lines and this is interesting because basically for forward lines Liverpool has good players such as Diaz, Nunez and Mo Salah and if Viktor Gyokeres and Anthony Gordon arrived to this team then most likely Liverpool will sell some players which probably Diaz or Nunez however since Fabinho leave this team Liverpool don't have good player on defensive midfielder and hopefully Arne Slot will considering this condition and look for new player on that position

[fullhdpixel]

Barca's financial mess ain't no joke. Sure, young talent is great, but you can't build a dynasty on potential alone when other clubs are throwing money around like it's confetti. Flick knew what he was getting into, and that shows some serious cojones. But the fans and the board need a reality check too. This ain't about slashing salaries or offloading a few players; it's about a complete rebuild, and that takes time. If Barcelona wants to reclaim their glory, it's gonna take more than a quick fix. It's a marathon, not a sprint

Flick needs space to operate, and the club needs to back him up, or we'll just see another manager get tossed under the bus. And that benefits nobody. Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will this new Barca

Ground realities are astounding because Barcelona which is still third most valuable soccer club with the price of €5.51 billion and fourth-richest club with having income from their last season around €859 Million are facing many troubles due to poor management because now their current debit is around €2.7 Billion in both short and long term.

As I have these figures I was really shocked how things are going on wrong side but no one available for giving any reply about this because now they are not able to bring quality players just because they lost their best coach Xavi, and now we have Hansi Flick who is going to work with available sources and having promise of giving good challenges to opponents in both La Liga and Champions League which is realistically looking not possible.

This upcoming season is going to be important for them because with this we can expect how things will be gone into their way are they able to have better results, or we are going to face another backlash things will be not good if they fail again.