[Closed]Avalon Chips - 0.081 BTC (Global+Escrow)-BATCH2 SECURED

[kerhac]

Escrow contract: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=RWKMSbSb

Thanks,
John

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The escrow address for t13hydra's group buy would be:

12o8iQqAve6yN6QnjhVg1yuaASb66jPJhs

Please state and agree to the conditions (if item is received damaged, item lost with tracking, customs fee etc) beforehand.

If possible, GPG sign your agreement to prevent any discrepancies later on and please ship with tracking to prevent problems during delivery. GPG signing is not a requirement, and any verbal exchange in the form of private messages or posts on bitcointalk.org, or email is effective as a statement of condition.

The fine print:
This Contract is solely generated for the purpose of facilitating the transaction between the seller and the buyer, which refers to the pseudonyms used on bitcointalk.org.
The escrow holder, John, assumes and gives no liability or guarantees on the satisfaction of all parties involved, although he agrees to mediate and facilitate the deal to the fullest extent he is capable of.  On the event that any problems arises, he will release the escrow to whichever party that presents him with the most convincing proof and/or after an open discussion with others or theymos. 
The verbal acceptance by both parties (or the failure to reject) and the sending of Bitcoins to the escrow address above constitutes the acceptance of the terms and conditions stated, and the activation of this Contract.

Please understand that I am assuming the risk of holding the escrowed Bitcoins, and I am using my own time to facilitate this transaction.   
I am imposing a fixed fee of 2% for this transaction, pre-paid (or otherwise) to 1NB1KFnFqnP3WSDZQrWV3pfmph5fWRyadz .

Thank you.

John (the escrow holder)
2 May 2013
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A question, i have to send the btc for the chips (example 80chips=6.32btc) to 12o8iQqAve6yN6QnjhVg1yuaASb66jPJhs and then 2% for escrow (in this example 0.1264 btc) to 1NB1KFnFqnP3WSDZQrWV3pfmph5fWRyadz
Is this correct?

[John (John K.)]

Escrow contract: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=RWKMSbSb

Thanks,
John

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The escrow address for t13hydra's group buy would be:

12o8iQqAve6yN6QnjhVg1yuaASb66jPJhs

Please state and agree to the conditions (if item is received damaged, item lost with tracking, customs fee etc) beforehand.

If possible, GPG sign your agreement to prevent any discrepancies later on and please ship with tracking to prevent problems during delivery. GPG signing is not a requirement, and any verbal exchange in the form of private messages or posts on bitcointalk.org, or email is effective as a statement of condition.

The fine print:
This Contract is solely generated for the purpose of facilitating the transaction between the seller and the buyer, which refers to the pseudonyms used on bitcointalk.org.
The escrow holder, John, assumes and gives no liability or guarantees on the satisfaction of all parties involved, although he agrees to mediate and facilitate the deal to the fullest extent he is capable of.  On the event that any problems arises, he will release the escrow to whichever party that presents him with the most convincing proof and/or after an open discussion with others or theymos. 
The verbal acceptance by both parties (or the failure to reject) and the sending of Bitcoins to the escrow address above constitutes the acceptance of the terms and conditions stated, and the activation of this Contract.

Please understand that I am assuming the risk of holding the escrowed Bitcoins, and I am using my own time to facilitate this transaction.   
I am imposing a fixed fee of 2% for this transaction, pre-paid (or otherwise) to 1NB1KFnFqnP3WSDZQrWV3pfmph5fWRyadz .

Thank you.

John (the escrow holder)
2 May 2013
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)

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A question, i have to send the btc for the chips (example 80chips=6.32btc) to 12o8iQqAve6yN6QnjhVg1yuaASb66jPJhs and then 2% for escrow (in this example 0.1264 btc) to 1NB1KFnFqnP3WSDZQrWV3pfmph5fWRyadz
Is this correct?

Nah, just drop everything into the escrow address seeing that everyone's going that way. I'll deduct the needed fees etc when the escrow is ready to send the funds to Avalon. (much like what I did for https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195052.0 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177994.0 )

If I'm not wrong, only th3joker paid his escrow fee to 1NB1KFnFqnP3WSDZQrWV3pfmph5fWRyadz beforehand.

....

so I pay ecsrow to John K and then when you pay order it goes to avalon, then I wait, 10'000 get delivered to you, and you don't run away with them, make units, and send them out? does seem risky.

....

As per this, I'm ready to verify OP's identity to hold in escrow should something goes wrong, to reassure potential investors. A sample of what I verified for two other completed group buys is here:

first - the price is at least 25% too high. these will be mass-made in only a few months time, probably by the time these are received and reshipped...

second: why would i trust you to re-ship tens of thousands of dollars in hardware, that you could make another 50K on by using yourself for a month....?

um... escrow? and these are supposedly shipping in about 2 weeks...

Just using the word "escrow" doesn't really answer the poster's question.
1. AM gets the BTC
2. Operator gets the hardware
3. Associates (buyers) hope the operator ships their units.

300 * 1.99 = approx  70,000 USD (at the moment).

The escrow agent is holding his identity as a guarantee, yet in reply#95 of this thread the operator tells us his name.  The escrow agent has since not disputed it.  A simple google search tells anybody more than they need to know.

klondike_bar has a real question that hasn't really been answered.  There is a small matter of 70k worth of goods that are not really protected by a damn thing.  I'm not claiming the operator will flee with the goods, but it has been done for a lot less.

My order in this group-buy still stands, but the question needs an answer.


EDIT: - After posting, I saw the operators post with his number et al.  Maybe that will be an answer.  Anyway, I'm sticking with my bid.

I confirm that I have received (via email to my GPG email address) that I received:

1. State driver's license snap belonging to Arklan Uth Oslin.

2. Aklan's self-portrait (via mirror and phone cam) along with his driver's license in hand.

3. Official document mailed and addressed to Arklan, address different from the one in his driver's license but he has given me the explanation on that. I expect to be giving this address to friedcat for the shipping.

4.  Arklan standing in front of his door with the house number in sight clearly. (matching his address above)

5. A digital insurance policy made out to Arklan and the address above.

Some Q&A's on the escrow here (copied from a past group buy I did):
1) Is that contract binding between you and ragingazn628, or is it binding between you and all parties participating in this group buy (Group Buyers)?
It would be binding with all parties involved up to when I submit the order (and the funds) to friedcat. The funds are guaranteed with me up to this point.
Afterwards, it would be between the buyers and Arklan, but please note that my obligation of most of the funds is over once I pass this over to friedcat.(so if friedcat or Arklan fails to ship or anything I'm not in fault although this is very unlikely).

2) What will you do if Arklan keeps the chips for himself?
I would provide all information that I have in hand for this transaction to the public, and probably assist in any litigation/legal enforcement efforts.

3) Do I understand correctly that we (the group buyers) will deliver the full payment to you (John), including Arklan's 1% fee, and you will hold that 1% fee in escrow?
Yes. I will forward the funds to friedcat when the preorder opens, and keep Arklan's fee in escrow. I will ask friedcat to document that I have indeed sent the funds in. (and judging from previous auctions I've done for him, this will be required by him anyway)

4) Have you done anything to verify Arklan's identity and destination shipping address?
See above.

PS: Arklan, please add this to the OP to prevent more questions of the kind coming in. (and this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195052.msg2037964#msg2037964)

[kerhac]

Thank very much John (John K.). Then the price 0.079 include the scrow fee

[John (John K.)]

Thank very much John (John K.). Then the price 0.079 include the scrow fee

Yes, from what I see here. 

[ashaw596]

Well, I'm in for 64 chips.

[John (John K.)]

Thank very much John (John K.). Then the price 0.079 include the scrow fee

Yes, from what I see here. 

Okay, apparently I was wrong. 

[smellymoo]

thanks for answering one part of my post, but really, the other parts were more pressing, as I can risk joining for a few chips, but I want to know if I am supposed to make a unit, or if that is in hand, and I just get a completed unit?

[spirale]

Thank very much John (John K.). Then the price 0.079 include the scrow fee

Yes, from what I see here. 

Okay, apparently I was wrong. 

Huh? Do we need to pay more?

[t13hydra]

Thank very much John (John K.). Then the price 0.079 include the scrow fee

Yes, from what I see here. 

Okay, apparently I was wrong. 

Huh? Do we need to pay more?

Hello all,
In short, yes. I am aware that it's the worst practice ever (to ask, recalculate and ask for more), so it is not mandatory. All of you, who have paid for the chips are not forced in any way to pay extra for the chips. I'll get that money out of my pocket, if needed, because it was my mistake.
I practically ommitted 0.002 btc for every chip.
I have changed the price of the chips in the thread title too, so at least part of John's commission fee will be recovered.

I'm truly sorry, i didn't want to ask for much, but apparently i wasn't asking for enough.
Steve

[t13hydra]

thanks for answering one part of my post, but really, the other parts were more pressing, as I can risk joining for a few chips, but I want to know if I am supposed to make a unit, or if that is in hand, and I just get a completed unit?

Hi,
You will be getting a full working unit. [edit: at an additional fixed price, discussed a bit later]. This thread is open for the chips, but i will have another thread open for the devices. Also, my website is almost ready. You'll be able to order several types of boards, complete or incomplete, on the website. For now, i have a final price for the 16 chip device. I will also have prices for the K1, the one chip, 282 MH/s device and the 80 chips devices, build by team Avalon.

To answer your question, no, i won't be running with eighter the chips or the boards, i plan to stick around as it will be more rewarding this way. Don't take my honesty the wrong way, but i really care for BTC and it's image. The BTC community already has enough scammers. I think i said it all with this. If you like, you can check out my FB page. Let me know if you need it.

[Bonam]

It is a little confusing based on your posts what one will actually be getting if one orders in this thread. If I order 16 chips, do I get the chips, or a completed 16 chip miner? Your pricing seems like it is based on just the chips since you can't possibly sell the completed units for just the chip cost (not without taking a huge loss yourself anyway), and yet you seemed to have stated in a few places (like the above post) that you will be providing people who ordered in this thread with complete units.

Could you clarify a little bit on what specifically you are offering and at what prices?

If you are about to list completed units on your website, have you built out a completed unit and verified that it works? If not, when do you expect that to happen?

If you are really offering completed units for just the chip cost, count me in for a few

[t13hydra]

It is a little confusing based on your posts what one will actually be getting if one orders in this thread. If I order 16 chips, do I get the chips, or a completed 16 chip miner? Your pricing seems like it is based on just the chips since you can't possibly sell the completed units for just the chip cost (not without taking a huge loss yourself anyway), and yet you seemed to have stated in a few places (like the above post) that you will be providing people who ordered in this thread with complete units.

Could you clarify a little bit on what specifically you are offering and at what prices?

If you are about to list completed units on your website, have you built out a completed unit and verified that it works? If not, when do you expect that to happen?

If you are really offering completed units for just the chip cost, count me in for a few

Hello,
This thread is about chips. I'm making pcbs also, because i can and i can make them a little cheaper than others in this forum, however, not as cheap as Thailand. It means, when the time comes, i will be making pcbs at an additional fixed price. This implies that i will also have a separate thread for the PCBs and i will be discussing aspects of that on that dedicated thread. Sorry if it wasn't clear enough, today wasn't a good day for me.

Regards,
Steve

[hacko.bg]

It is a little confusing based on your posts what one will actually be getting if one orders in this thread. If I order 16 chips, do I get the chips, or a completed 16 chip miner? Your pricing seems like it is based on just the chips since you can't possibly sell the completed units for just the chip cost (not without taking a huge loss yourself anyway), and yet you seemed to have stated in a few places (like the above post) that you will be providing people who ordered in this thread with complete units.

Could you clarify a little bit on what specifically you are offering and at what prices?

If you are about to list completed units on your website, have you built out a completed unit and verified that it works? If not, when do you expect that to happen?

If you are really offering completed units for just the chip cost, count me in for a few

Right now, we are gathering to complete 1 batch of 10,000 Avalon chips, at the terms described in the 1 post.

PCB is a matter of development right now, but from what I've discussed with t13hydra, klondike design is closest to completion, easiest and cheaper to produce. Expectected price for this design, according to last calculation is 75-100 Euro. This price is paid alone from what you've paid (or will pay) for the chips you order. 80 chips (or more) designs are subject to further discussion and so far nor price, nor 100% for production is agreed upon.

So, what you can order so far is Avalon chips, at the price and terms described in first post.
After that it will be clear how much/what models PCB will be produces and how much they will cost. There will be import fee, when chips arrive from Avalon to t13hydra, there will be shipping fee, when the chips are dispatched to you and it will be based depending on your location. If you are located outside EU, there could be import tax, which you'll have to pay, too.

There is 8-10 weeks waiting time, after the order is placed with Avalon. If everything is going as expected, my estimation for working PCB boards must be middle of August/start of September.

There is good risk something goes wrong, changes in bitcoin scene, drop of prices, etc, etc. Do your risk assessment and place your order if you are ok with the odds.

[t13hydra]

It is a little confusing based on your posts what one will actually be getting if one orders in this thread. If I order 16 chips, do I get the chips, or a completed 16 chip miner? Your pricing seems like it is based on just the chips since you can't possibly sell the completed units for just the chip cost (not without taking a huge loss yourself anyway), and yet you seemed to have stated in a few places (like the above post) that you will be providing people who ordered in this thread with complete units.

Could you clarify a little bit on what specifically you are offering and at what prices?

If you are about to list completed units on your website, have you built out a completed unit and verified that it works? If not, when do you expect that to happen?

If you are really offering completed units for just the chip cost, count me in for a few

Right now, we are gathering to complete 1 batch of 10,000 Avalon chips, at the terms described in the 1 post.

PCB is a matter of development right now, but from what I've discussed with t13hydra, klondike design is closest to completion, easiest and cheaper to produce. Expectected price for this design, according to last calculation is 75-100 Euro. This price is paid alone from what you've paid (or will pay) for the chips you order. 80 chips (or more) designs are subject to further discussion and so far nor price, nor 100% for production is agreed upon.

So, what you can order so far is Avalon chips, at the price and terms described in first post.
After that it will be clear how much/what models PCB will be produces and how much they will cost. There will be import fee, when chips arrive from Avalon to t13hydra, there will be shipping fee, when the chips are dispatched to you and it will be based depending on your location. If you are located outside EU, there could be import tax, which you'll have to pay, too.

There is 8-10 weeks waiting time, after the order is placed with Avalon. If everything is going as expected, my estimation for working PCB boards must be middle of August/start of September.

There is good risk something goes wrong, changes in bitcoin scene, drop of prices, etc, etc. Do your risk assessment and place your order if you are ok with the odds.

Thank you for answering this  Hacko. I'm writing from my phone.
You're exactly right in all statements.

Regards,
Steve

[th3joker]

ooh thats gonna get confusing later on then.

I owe John K escrow percentage for an additional 10 chips I paid into escrow for.

Best if we include the escrow fee into the price per chip that way there'll be less farting around for John K and t13hydra at the end.

[t13hydra]

ooh thats gonna get confusing later on then.

I owe John K escrow percentage for an additional 10 chips I paid into escrow for.

Best if we include the escrow fee into the price per chip that way there'll be less farting around for John K and t13hydra at the end.

Yes, i've done that a few minutes ago. Makimg mistakes is learning, so i've definitely learned to make my math right.

Steve

[t13hydra]

2013-05-19:
- A fatal math error was discovered at the chip's cost. This was my mistake and take full responsability for it. John's escrow fee wasn't covered by the final chips price. This is fixed now and if there are missing funds regarding John's escrow fee, i will be providing this out of my pocket. Lesson learned.
- I'm considering the aspects of building smaller, 1 chip USB miners also, based on the K1 project from Bkkcoins. I'll provide updates regarding thsi too.
- I have to create the text content of our website. After this, we can go live, probably during next week.

[hacko.bg]

2013-05-19:
- A fatal math error was discovered at the chip's cost. This was my mistake and take full responsability for it. John's escrow fee wasn't covered by the final chips price. This is fixed now and if there are missing funds regarding John's escrow fee, i will be providing this out of my pocket. Lesson learned.
- I'm considering the aspects of building smaller, 1 chip USB miners also, based on the K1 project from Bkkcoins. I'll provide updates regarding thsi too.
- I have to create the text content of our website. After this, we can go live, probably during next week.

Lesson learning appreciated, but as you were kind enough to arrange this group at no fee cost for you (from what I've seen so far other group buys have 7 to 10% fee for the person, arranging it) I still think that the 2% fee should be paid by participants in the group buy and I will pay my part and my advice is for the other participants to do so. Even this way 0.081 btc per chip is the lowest price in a group buy from Avalon, as far as I am aware.

To which escrow address and in what manner should I send my escrow tax?

[th3joker]

I can't speak for everyone but personally I'm happy to pay my share of the escrow and don't expect anyone to be out of pocket on my behalf ;-)

[t13hydra]

2013-05-19:
- A fatal math error was discovered at the chip's cost. This was my mistake and take full responsability for it. John's escrow fee wasn't covered by the final chips price. This is fixed now and if there are missing funds regarding John's escrow fee, i will be providing this out of my pocket. Lesson learned.
- I'm considering the aspects of building smaller, 1 chip USB miners also, based on the K1 project from Bkkcoins. I'll provide updates regarding thsi too.
- I have to create the text content of our website. After this, we can go live, probably during next week.

Lesson learning appreciated, but as you were kind enough to arrange this group at no fee cost for you (from what I've seen so far other group buys have 7 to 10% fee for the person, arranging it) I still think that the 2% fee should be paid by participants in the group buy and I will pay my part and my advice is for the other participants to do so. Even this way 0.081 btc per chip is the lowest price in a group buy from Avalon, as far as I am aware.

To which escrow address and in what manner should I send my escrow tax?

Thank you, hacko.
You shoud pay the tax to the standard escrow address provided by John. The fee should be N chips x 0.002 btc.

Thanks again for understanding.