ASICMiner USB group buy- orders closed, pay for extra!

[aspeer]

usps works for me

i would recommend not changing terms as well and just retaining the escrow as it was laid out.

[logicbomb666]

I am aware of the gap of escrow protection in this group buy, but am still fine with everything that has already been agreed on. I think it would be more of a negative impact if we started changing the agreement.  I vote against changing the agreement in any way, I vote for keeping everything the same to keep things simple.

Now that this group buy has reached >300 :  I think it would be wise to set a hard stop date.  For example, We will allow orders to continue until XX/XX/XXX @ XX:XXam/pm.  After this, no more orders will be accepted for this group buy.  If there is no stop date, there will be orders coming in forever.  How to determine that stop date?  I have no idea.  

Also need to set a hard stop date on when funds should be cleared to escrow, anything after shall be refunded and kicked out of this group buy.

Also to consider - Must get certain % over 300 to account for anybody that is unable or chooses not to send funds to escrow in time.

[twobits]

usps works for me

i would recommend not changing terms as well and just retaining the escrow as it was laid out.

The change to escrow was a change in terms at least from when the first of us bid in.

[twobits]

John K has put a huge amount of effort into this forum and has demonstrated good judgement.  Also, he seems to have taken the job of cross-referencing the ~arklan seriously and done good work.  12 BTC is fine with me.  I'm paying for his reputation more than anything.

If you are covering it for us, then great.  I do think it should be clear to everyone that whatever the service is, it is not really escrowed in the traditional sense. Given some peoples replies to others questions, I am not sure all are clear on this.

~arklan has been active and professional so far.  $700-ish for all this work and the shipping hassles and all that seem like, if anything, to little to me.  If ~arklan wishes to somehow discount bulk shipments for those who ordered multiple pieces, that seem fair.

I actually agree with you.  My issue is more that the way it came about was a fee to insure delivery.    It does no such thing, and this should be made a bit clearer.

[PeZ]

also, does anyone have any ideas on estimating the potential customs charges? i tihkn it's dependant entirely on the declared value and what it's declared as, both things we can only guess. hmm. i'll ask the blade buyers.

Can't use UPS for Canada - they have heavy customs charges.

[twobits]

I am aware of the gap of escrow protection in this group buy, but am still fine with everything that has already been agreed on. I think it would be more of a negative impact if we started changing the agreement.  I vote against changing the agreement in any way, I vote for keeping everything the same to keep things simple.

If you vote against changing it that would be a vote against the escrow right?   As that was a change  from when many of us first posted in.

Now that this group buy has reached >300 :  I think it would be wise to set a hard stop date.  For example, We will allow orders to continue until XX/XX/XXX @ XX:XXam/pm.  After this, no more orders will be accepted for this group buy.  If there is no stop date, there will be orders coming in forever.  How to determine that stop date?  I have no idea.  

Also need to set a hard stop date on when funds should be cleared to escrow, anything after shall be refunded and kicked out of this group buy.

Also to consider - Must get certain % over 300 to account for anybody that is unable or chooses not to send funds to escrow in time.

Are they even taking orders yet for these?   Guess the stop date should be as soon as we can place the actual order and get in the queue for these.

[tvbcof]

John K has put a huge amount of effort into this forum and has demonstrated good judgement.  Also, he seems to have taken the job of cross-referencing the ~arklan seriously and done good work.  12 BTC is fine with me.  I'm paying for his reputation more than anything.

If you are covering it for us, then great.  I do think it should be clear to everyone that whatever the service is, it is not really escrowed in the traditional sense. Given some peoples replies to others questions, I am not sure all are clear on this.

I'm covering my share.  It was pretty clear how things worked when I signed up and I was happy enough with it.  If the rules have changed on me and I didn't like it I'd just bail right now before forking over any funds.  I think I noticed that John K is also participating in some of the tactical and communication issues (by his own graces?) and it has value to me to have someone who is fluent in Chinese helping out here.

[arklan]

yea, USPS will be the carrier.

i pm'd friedcat, and he has said we can pay anytime.

as to a hard stop: 48 hours from now, i will stop accepting orders. 7 days from then, payments to escrow will be expected to be completed and all money gathered.

so we'll send payment to friedcat in 9 days, basically.

i'll update the OP accordingly.

[twobits]

John K has put a huge amount of effort into this forum and has demonstrated good judgement.  Also, he seems to have taken the job of cross-referencing the ~arklan seriously and done good work.  12 BTC is fine with me.  I'm paying for his reputation more than anything.

If you are covering it for us, then great.  I do think it should be clear to everyone that whatever the service is, it is not really escrowed in the traditional sense. Given some peoples replies to others questions, I am not sure all are clear on this.

I'm covering my share.  It was pretty clear how things worked when I signed up and I was happy enough with it.  If the rules have changed on me and I didn't like it I'd just bail right now before forking over any funds.  I think I noticed that John K is also participating in some of the tactical and communication issues (by his own graces?) and it has value to me to have someone who is fluent in Chinese helping out here.

If you just meant your share I would have thought you would have said you have no issue with a 2% fee. You said you have no issue with 12 btc, so it seemed you would be fine covering that.

I have household members who are fluent in a few Chinese dialects.  I can not see any advantage to having access to this resource given the entire deal is being done in English.  Why do you have to reach so far to try and justify an escrow fee that is not escrow.

Also, it was clear when I signed up as well. At that time no escrow was mentioned in the OP. So the rules that different people consider the original seem to be different for different people.   So yes, if they get changed back to the original offer and you don't like it you  would bail.  Got it.
 

[arklan]

i am beginning to regret not thinking this all out more clearly (regarding escrow) from the get go... ugh.

also, i heard from one of the blade buyers. apparently there were no customs fees.

[tvbcof]

I'm covering my share.  It was pretty clear how things worked when I signed up and I was happy enough with it.  If the rules have changed on me and I didn't like it I'd just bail right now before forking over any funds.  I think I noticed that John K is also participating in some of the tactical and communication issues (by his own graces?) and it has value to me to have someone who is fluent in Chinese helping out here.

I have household members who are fluent in a few Chinese dialects.  I can not see any advantage to having access to this resource given the entire deal is being done in English.  Why do you have to reach so far to try and justify an escrow fee that is not escrow.

Also, it was clear when I signed up as well.   So the rules that different people consider the original seem to be different for different people.   So yes, if they get changed back to the original offer and you don't like it you  would bail.  Got it.
 

I cannot honestly say that I studied the fine print at the time I signed up.  But I also don't give a shit.  I've hardly put my financial statement at risk fucking around with what will very likely end up being a laughably overpriced trinket within a few months due to either a rise in BTC values or competition from more powerful devices.  I stated '2.1-ish BTC' to allow for some flexibility.

I figured that John K is going to send the funds to ~friedcat and ~arklan won't touch them.  That ~friedcat and John K could communicate about issues in their mother tongue may help get over shipping and customs stuff, or might provide an opportunity for collusion.  That John K has some credibility makes the second option less likely.

[twobits]

i am beginning to regret not thinking this all out more clearly (regarding escrow) from the get go... ugh.

also, i heard from one of the blade buyers. apparently there were no customs fees.

Customs is a weird thing.  I have gotten many things with no fees.  Seems at least one Chinese person in my household, gets a lot of 'gifts' from Hong Kong lately.   These also have had no fees.   I had one time they insisted on $30 for a $10 battery.     A shipment of a single item gets a lot less attention then a bulk shipment does.   I do hope we get no fees, but I would not count on it.  So, fingers crossed but think about what to do if you do get hit with customs fees I guess?

[twobits]

I cannot honestly say that I studied the fine print at the time I signed up.  But I also don't give a shit.  I've hardly put my financial statement at risk fucking around with what will very likely end up being a laughably overpriced trinket within a few months due to either a rise in BTC values or competition from more powerful devices.  I stated '2.1-ish BTC' to allow for some flexibility.

Ha, on this I agree.   I think it will be awhile, if ever till the device earns back the costs.    I am mainly getting it as I have been doing some work with the merged mining clients on my laptop, and access to some hash power from my laptop would be a nice aid in testing.

My main objection is it being called escrow, which gives a false sense of what is being provided.

[arklan]

i am beginning to regret not thinking this all out more clearly (regarding escrow) from the get go... ugh.

also, i heard from one of the blade buyers. apparently there were no customs fees.

Customs is a weird thing.  I have gotten many things with no fees.  Seems at least one Chinese person in my household, gets a lot of 'gifts' from Hong Kong lately.   These also have had no fees.   I had one time they insisted on $30 for a $10 battery.     A shipment of a single item gets a lot less attention then a bulk shipment does.   I do hope we get no fees, but I would not count on it.  So, fingers crossed but think about what to do if you do get hit with customs fees I guess?

right.

as to the whole escrow thing: yes, obviously it's not really escrow, since i'll get the hardware and such. but equally, i don't know that trying to change it now would be viable. i can ask john his thoughts on the matter.

[PeZ]

also, i heard from one of the blade buyers. apparently there were no customs fees.

You have to declare a value on the package or declare it as a gift, so it would be interesting to know what was on the package's customs tag. That also decides the insured value. A gift has no value and if you send too many of them, customs might limit your ability to export.

[arklan]

also, i heard from one of the blade buyers. apparently there were no customs fees.

You have to declare a value on the package or declare it as a gift, so it would be interesting to know what was on the package's customs tag. That also decides the insured value. A gift has no value and if you send too many of them, customs might limit your ability to export.

yea, i asked, he didn't say. *shrug*



we're at 316 ordered right now. yay!

i'm going to get some sleep for a few hours. i'll update everything when i wake.

[tvbcof]

Ha, on this I agree.   I think it will be awhile, if ever till the device earns back the costs.    I am mainly getting it as I have been doing some work with the merged mining clients on my laptop, and access to some hash power from my laptop would be a nice aid in testing.

I'll be looking forward to your work on this.  Sounds interesting.

My main objection is it being called escrow, which gives a false sense of what is being provided.

It's a fair complaint if things have changed.  I've never done any escrow with anything.  I assumed that the arrangement isolated ~arklan from the funds and that is what I care about mostly.  John K did some amount of work already.

~arklan is clearly new at this, but gives every appearance of being a straight-up actor who didn't deliberately try to screw anyone.  That is my gut sense at least.  Maybe if John K feels like he was greatly overcompensated he will adjust his rate.  I would not complain at all if any such remittance went exclusively to those who signed up under the 'old rules'.

[daemondazz]

To turn this into a proper escrow, would friedcat be happy with proof of the funds being in the escrow account before shipping and then the private key to the address being provided to him when proof of end-user delivery has been provided?

You'd need to have 2 escrow addresses though, one for the actual cost of the hardware (to go to friedcat) and another for the fees...

[SilentSonicBoom]

also, i heard from one of the blade buyers. apparently there were no customs fees.

You have to declare a value on the package or declare it as a gift, so it would be interesting to know what was on the package's customs tag. That also decides the insured value. A gift has no value and if you send too many of them, customs might limit your ability to export.

yea, i asked, he didn't say. *shrug*



we're at 316 ordered right now. yay!

i'm going to get some sleep for a few hours. i'll update everything when i wake.

I want to make sure this group buy succeeds. I am starting an IPO for TURTLE MINING using the USB's purchased from this group buy. I am offering shares at the price of 0.021013 Bitcoin per share. This is to let those that can't afford over 2 Bitcoin to join in the purchase of these miners. The IPO link is at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198822.0 .

Also, to keep this thread on topic, please increase my order to 2 units.

Thank you.

[John (John K.)]

I cannot honestly say that I studied the fine print at the time I signed up.  But I also don't give a shit.  I've hardly put my financial statement at risk fucking around with what will very likely end up being a laughably overpriced trinket within a few months due to either a rise in BTC values or competition from more powerful devices.  I stated '2.1-ish BTC' to allow for some flexibility.

Ha, on this I agree.   I think it will be awhile, if ever till the device earns back the costs.    I am mainly getting it as I have been doing some work with the merged mining clients on my laptop, and access to some hash power from my laptop would be a nice aid in testing.

My main objection is it being called escrow, which gives a false sense of what is being provided.

The escrow is not a traditional escrow where the funds are held before the goods arrive - it's an identity escrow. ( sort of this but minus the cryptos: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.21.6420) I hold and verify Arklan's identity here so that he does not have to send this information to everyone on the list. The data would be held as a reserve against any unlikely problems arising on Arklan's side, and can be used to determine his location and everything for any litigation efforts if needed.  Of course, I also verify that the package isn't being sent to some obscure PO box. 

To turn this into a proper escrow, would friedcat be happy with proof of the funds being in the escrow account before shipping and then the private key to the address being provided to him when proof of end-user delivery has been provided?

You'd need to have 2 escrow addresses though, one for the actual cost of the hardware (to go to friedcat) and another for the fees...

also, i heard from one of the blade buyers. apparently there were no customs fees.

You have to declare a value on the package or declare it as a gift, so it would be interesting to know what was on the package's customs tag. That also decides the insured value. A gift has no value and if you send too many of them, customs might limit your ability to export.

yea, i asked, he didn't say. *shrug*



we're at 316 ordered right now. yay!

i'm going to get some sleep for a few hours. i'll update everything when i wake.

Friedcat declared the blades as 'Sample PCB's' and around a value of $76 if I'm not wrong for the recent auction. AFAIK only Russian and Polish buyers had any problems with the shipping due to their postal services - I had a Polish buyer PM me for the actual invoice to satisfy their overly zealous customs. Shipping to the states should not be a problem here. 

When it's time, do we send the whole amount to 1FFyoorSfwQC15Xv7zNZ4Lv5yZcM6WFKuF because the top post also refers to: "fixed fee of 2% for this transaction, pre-paid to 1NB1KFnFqnP3WSDZQrWV3pfmph5fWRyadz".

Also, how does our street address get associated with our payment? Sorry for the dumb questions, but I've never done escrow before.

as to the bitcoin addresses: i'm not sure. i'll double check with john.

street addresses: when we start collecting money, i'll send everyone a pm on the forum with my email address and relevant info. you'll email me your street address and a confirmation of the transaction being sent to the designated address. when all money is collected, john will send it to friedcat, then when i get the miners i'll mail em out. once i know they have been received i'll delete the address holding emails.

tiger - slow? eh, not super speed, yea. but we're SO CLOSE.

Just send the fees and everything to the escrow address - the sentence above was an error as I used this contract for most of my escrow deals.

PS: I can speak about 4 Chinese dialects, Indonesian, Malay, Chinese and English (duh!)