Bitcoin Forum
October 23, 2017, 02:10:40 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.0.1  [Torrent]. (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 ... 123 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] [XEL] :: Elastic - The Decentralized Supercomputer ::  (Read 147722 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.
Bgjjj2016
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448

Ben2016


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 05:51:25 PM
 #81

https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/we-need-a-good-website/133/18?u=byrallier

@clivemy @unvoid @BeanutPutter @spaceMonkey
I need to some content:
-Why Elastic
-What is different other projects
-roadmap
-revised whitepaper
-faq (https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/faq-for-the-website/122)


could you change the logo at wallet.elastic.pw as well ? Also I don't see the warning " you're in Testnet....." when you go to the wallet page.

My " I want that Old Toyota Camry very bad" BTC Fund :1DQU4oqmZRcKSzg7MjPLMuHrMwnbDdjQRM
Join the Elastic revolution! Elastic Network: The Decentralized Supercomputer 
ELASTIC WEBSITE|ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD|JOIN THE SLACK
1508767840
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508767840

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508767840
Reply with quote  #2

1508767840
Report to moderator
1508767840
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508767840

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508767840
Reply with quote  #2

1508767840
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1508767840
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508767840

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508767840
Reply with quote  #2

1508767840
Report to moderator
1508767840
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508767840

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1508767840
Reply with quote  #2

1508767840
Report to moderator
by rallier
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 840


Flixxo - Watch, Share, Earn!


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 06:24:17 PM
 #82

https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/we-need-a-good-website/133/18?u=byrallier

@clivemy @unvoid @BeanutPutter @spaceMonkey
I need to some content:
-Why Elastic
-What is different other projects
-roadmap
-revised whitepaper
-faq (https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/faq-for-the-website/122)


could you change the logo at wallet.elastic.pw as well ? Also I don't see the warning " you're in Testnet....." when you go to the wallet page.

I will put elastic-light wallet. The logo change on it. When I upload elastic-light wallet, it will appear with new logo.
You don't see testnet warning because I was testing for mainnet with mainnet settings like SSL, ports etc.

X       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄██▀▀         ▀▀██▄
  ▄██▀              ▀██▄
 ▄██     ██▄▄          ██▄
▄██      █████▄▄        ██▄
██       ████████▄▄      ██
██       ███████████▄    ██
██       ██████████▀     ██
▀██      ███████▀       ██▀
 ▀██     ████▀         ██▀
  ▀██▄   █▀          ▄██▀
    ▀██▄▄         ▄▄██▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
.flixxo    X▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
████████████▀▀███████
█████▀████░░░░░░▄████
█████░░░░▀░░░░░▄█████
█████▄░░░░░░░░░░██████
██████░░░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░▄████████
████▄▄░░░░▄▄██████████

██████████████████████
██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████████▀█▀██████████
██████▀▀▀▀▀████████
██████▄▄░░▄▄▄░░███████
████████░░███░░███████
████████░░░░░░▀███████
████████░░███▄░░██████
██████▀▀░░▀▀▀░░░██████
██████▄▄▄▄▄▄███████
█████████▄█▄██████████

██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
X[[]]X
HomoHenning
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546


🌟ATLANT ICO ENDING SOON🌟


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 06:39:35 PM
 #83

can you please add this video to OP or website about this use case (Bitcoin Mining in ElasticPL) from dev?
https://vimeo.com/216378462

mr.coinzy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 464


For XEL tips: XEL-EFWU-3V2F-4REL-7PQMT


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 06:56:37 PM
 #84

Nice to see the new Elastic thread!  Smiley
Onward and Upward!

Join the Elastic revolution!  Elastic - The Decentralized Supercomputer
ELASTIC WEBSITE | NEW ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD | ELASTIC SLACK | ELASTIC FORUM
unvoid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 535



View Profile
June 08, 2017, 07:17:54 PM
 #85

can you please add this video to OP or website about this use case (Bitcoin Mining in ElasticPL) from dev?
https://vimeo.com/216378462


+1 @ImI

Most probably we will not be able to mine any block in BTC network but it's nice show-off of Elastic capabilities.

BTC: 1CMgHWx4wkAaAy2FfeCyPdedUExmhGhfi5
XEL: XEL-HCM8-KB6E-YFLK-8BWMF
by rallier
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 840


Flixxo - Watch, Share, Earn!


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 07:32:07 PM
 #86

can you please add this video to OP or website about this use case (Bitcoin Mining in ElasticPL) from dev?
https://vimeo.com/216378462


+1 @ImI

Most probably we will not be able to mine any block in BTC network but it's nice show-off of Elastic capabilities.

+1 I will add website as a blog post.
can somebody write content for this video for blog post?

X       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄██▀▀         ▀▀██▄
  ▄██▀              ▀██▄
 ▄██     ██▄▄          ██▄
▄██      █████▄▄        ██▄
██       ████████▄▄      ██
██       ███████████▄    ██
██       ██████████▀     ██
▀██      ███████▀       ██▀
 ▀██     ████▀         ██▀
  ▀██▄   █▀          ▄██▀
    ▀██▄▄         ▄▄██▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
.flixxo    X▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
████████████▀▀███████
█████▀████░░░░░░▄████
█████░░░░▀░░░░░▄█████
█████▄░░░░░░░░░░██████
██████░░░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░▄████████
████▄▄░░░░▄▄██████████

██████████████████████
██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████████▀█▀██████████
██████▀▀▀▀▀████████
██████▄▄░░▄▄▄░░███████
████████░░███░░███████
████████░░░░░░▀███████
████████░░███▄░░██████
██████▀▀░░▀▀▀░░░██████
██████▄▄▄▄▄▄███████
█████████▄█▄██████████

██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
X[[]]X
Mrboot
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966



View Profile
June 08, 2017, 07:37:27 PM
 #87

Great to see a new post, good luck to the team cant wait for lightnetwork to be online as mainnet.


13Darko
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 464



View Profile
June 08, 2017, 07:38:26 PM
 #88

Dev algo  Huh Huh Huh Huh!!!!

Elastic uses PoS algorithm. And at the same time, it has PoW to solve tasks sent to the distributed network, but
it's not gonna be implemented in the first version of the release.

Developers:
Core: Evil-Knievel
Miner: coralreefer
Elastic forum, blockexplorer, faucet: unvoid
Elastic site: by rallier, clivemy

P.s. Ping me, if I forgot someone.

▃▃▃▌▌  STORIQA  ▐▐▃▃▃▃
Global marketplace
HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 07:41:35 PM
 #89

I guess with masternodes you mean so called SNs (supernodes), right?

Yes, I just use the generic, age-old p2p terminology for any form of systematic recentralization, regardless of the trendy term-of-the-day for it.  (... which seems to vary month-to-month anymore.)

Quote
Well, I didn't like them too. Not sure if it's possible at all at this stage, but perhaps with your support, it could be possible to think it over again, and get rid of those special nodes.

I doubt it is something that would get sorted out before you guys proceed with the lite wallet launch.  It isn't entirely clear to me what the XEL transition plan is from there, though.... so maybe it is something that could be done after or maybe it is something where we'd be talking about a new, distinct network.
trader19
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148



View Profile WWW
June 08, 2017, 07:45:41 PM
 #90

I guess with masternodes you mean so called SNs (supernodes), right?

Yes, I just use the generic, age-old p2p terminology for any form of systematic recentralization, regardless of the trendy term-of-the-day for it.  (... which seems to vary month-to-month anymore.)

Quote
Well, I didn't like them too. Not sure if it's possible at all at this stage, but perhaps with your support, it could be possible to think it over again, and get rid of those special nodes.

I doubt it is something that would get sorted out before you guys proceed with the lite wallet launch.  It isn't entirely clear to me what the XEL transition plan is from there, though.... so maybe it is something that could be done after or maybe it is something where we'd be talking about a new, distinct network.
lite wallet will have "only" basic functions to redeem, receive and send XEL. fancy full client with SN, ElasticPL and such will get wrapped up later, or did i miss something?

Join the Elastic revolution!  Elastic - The Decentralized Supercomputer
ELASTIC WEBSITE | NEW ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD | ELASTIC SLACK | ELASTIC FORUM
HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 08:06:21 PM
 #91

The great thing about an open source project like this is that any developer can take it any direction they'd like as long as the community adopts it.

I'm open to ideas other than the SNs, just keep in mind there are a lot of constraints that need to be met.  So if people have alternate solutions for how a distributed network can fully validate the POW / Bounty submissions without creating a bottleneck, please provide your ideas.

I've also pitched a couple of alternate ideas to EK, but really he's pretty busy right now so this would probably be the best opportunity to revisit this topic before he has time to work on the Core Server again.

One last thing...regardless of what we do, maybe it would be best to change the name of it...even in the current design it's not a SuperNode the way other blockchains think of it.  It's simply a Core Server node that has the ability to run the ElasticPL engine to validate POW / Bounty submissions.

The very short version:  A job requester would annotate an SSA form program (in a specific machine model resulting in a particularly structured (binary) flow graph)  with a simple liveness/reachability model so that miners could (quickly, and without running any example case inputs) verify the necessary complexity bound of the job's individual work task before selecting.  PoW solutions would operate a little differently (still using "per user" generated inputs incl nonce data, but basically hashing/checking "instruction by instruction" instead of at the end of each input run) so that PoW solution rates become uniform across jobs, being able to be found at any point mid-execution.  (PoW prize pool would probably also need to work a little differently, with any amount of proof-of-work certificates able to be submitted before a bounty is found, and the PoW pool being divided proportionally after.)  Bounty solutions would include an annotation of the original model with information about the eventual I/O relation, such that verifying the output submission can be reduced to an instance of a satisfiability problem.  Nodes (all of them) would validate solutions against this model. (They would still need to "re-run the program" by a symbolic interpretation, but could know that they are doing so in an optimally efficient way - effectively skipping any "unrelated loops" encountered.)  Jobs would always end after one bounty is found.

I'm summarizing a lot, but that is the basic idea.
frajervitalny
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 103

We bow in its aura


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 08:08:49 PM
 #92

is there place to buy XEL?


▐ LISK▐ is a Decentralized Application and Sidechain Platform written in Node.JS! Running on Delegated Proof of Stake. Including a Dapp Store and much more!
HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 08:16:47 PM
 #93

I'm summarizing a lot, but that is the basic idea.

Even shorter version:  Instead of giving a machine and getting an input/output pair, you give a model of a machine's behavior, and get back an input/output pair's relationship to that machine.  Instead of having a chance to find a PoW certificate at the end of each work attempt (effort of which varies run to run) there is chance to find a PoW certificate for each individual value propagation in the program, which would be uniform both run-to-run and job-to-job.  A job requiring on average twice as many assignments per attempt would generate twice as many work proofs on average for the same number of attempts run.
coralreefer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 447


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 08:20:20 PM
 #94

I guess with masternodes you mean so called SNs (supernodes), right?

Yes, I just use the generic, age-old p2p terminology for any form of systematic recentralization, regardless of the trendy term-of-the-day for it.  (... which seems to vary month-to-month anymore.)

Quote
Well, I didn't like them too. Not sure if it's possible at all at this stage, but perhaps with your support, it could be possible to think it over again, and get rid of those special nodes.

I doubt it is something that would get sorted out before you guys proceed with the lite wallet launch.  It isn't entirely clear to me what the XEL transition plan is from there, though.... so maybe it is something that could be done after or maybe it is something where we'd be talking about a new, distinct network.

HunterMinerCrafter, the SuperNode (or whatever we decide to call it) logic has not been coded yet and has no ties to the Lite Wallet being released soon.  I have coded the logic to perform the validation of POW / Bounty submissions, but EK has not had time yet to interface this logic into the Core Server, so we may have some time to refine the approach here...

Originally, I think EK's plan was to have all nodes (the Core Server) run the validation logic; however, the algorithms written in ElasticPL can potentially take quite a bit of time and memory to solve (i.e. seconds...depending on the complexity), so the validation logic could easily be used to attack the network (i.e. submit a complex job and throw 100's of solutions to the nodes to validate).

The next thought was to just have nodes running on higher performance hardware run the validation logic...but you'd still have to have all these nodes perform the validation so there was still too much traffic and overhead on the network, so at that point we looked at just having a small number of nodes to the validation, but then you'd still have the issue of a job author running their own malicious node.  So I believe this is when EK added the 250K XEL requirement...to deter anyone from creating a malicious node...basically, the network would trust the decision of a single node....which leads us to where we are today.

Clearly this idea can be improved upon (I have concerns over the 250K requirement as well as relying on a single SN's decision), but I am just coding the logic for the validation, so I can't really say what the best approach....and EK has been so busy I don't think he's had much time if any to think about it.

So as I posted earlier, I think its work discussing again...
tomkat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 602


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 08:20:52 PM
 #95

I guess with masternodes you mean so called SNs (supernodes), right?

Yes, I just use the generic, age-old p2p terminology for any form of systematic recentralization, regardless of the trendy term-of-the-day for it.  (... which seems to vary month-to-month anymore.)

Quote
Well, I didn't like them too. Not sure if it's possible at all at this stage, but perhaps with your support, it could be possible to think it over again, and get rid of those special nodes.

I doubt it is something that would get sorted out before you guys proceed with the lite wallet launch.  It isn't entirely clear to me what the XEL transition plan is from there, though.... so maybe it is something that could be done after or maybe it is something where we'd be talking about a new, distinct network.

From my understanding the plan would be:
a) lite wallet for (1) increase awareness from outside world - specifically more developers and other specialists incentivized by a possibility of having XEL stake, (2) XEL internal fundraising possibilities, (3) distribution from early donors to an outer space, which is now not possible even with OTC trading
b) a series of hard forks towards fully functional system - I think it means there wouldn't be new distinct network, but the initial one would rather evolve and expand.

There was no plan to change current SN-based model - that's just my personal doubts caused by aversion to complexity, but perhaps it's worth discussing before we go too far with too much intricacy in the system.
ImI
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1666



View Profile
June 08, 2017, 08:22:50 PM
 #96

can you please add this video to OP or website about this use case (Bitcoin Mining in ElasticPL) from dev?
https://vimeo.com/216378462


done
coralreefer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 447


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 08:25:42 PM
 #97

I'm summarizing a lot, but that is the basic idea.

Even shorter version:  Instead of giving a machine and getting an input/output pair, you give a model of a machine's behavior, and get back an input/output pair's relationship to that machine.  Instead of having a chance to find a PoW certificate at the end of each work attempt (effort of which varies run to run) there is chance to find a PoW certificate for each individual value propagation in the program, which would be uniform both run-to-run and job-to-job.  A job requiring on average twice as many assignments per attempt would generate twice as many work proofs on average for the same number of attempts run.

I posted my last comment before I saw this.  These are great ideas and definitely worth exploring further...
clivemy
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 195


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 08:30:22 PM
 #98

can you please add this video to OP or website about this use case (Bitcoin Mining in ElasticPL) from dev?
https://vimeo.com/216378462


+1 @ImI

Most probably we will not be able to mine any block in BTC network but it's nice show-off of Elastic capabilities.

+1 I will add website as a blog post.
can somebody write content for this video for blog post?

On it.  :-)
coralreefer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 447


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 08:34:38 PM
 #99

can you please add this video to OP or website about this use case (Bitcoin Mining in ElasticPL) from dev?
https://vimeo.com/216378462


+1 @ImI

Most probably we will not be able to mine any block in BTC network but it's nice show-off of Elastic capabilities.

+1 I will add website as a blog post.
can somebody write content for this video for blog post?

On it.  :-)

When you write the content...please put it in perspective.  You cannot realistically mine BTC or any other coin with Elastic.  Even if you disregard all the overhead in Elastic to create the specialized network it runs in...updates to the block to mine would need to propogate through our blockchain...so it may take a minute or more just for an Elastic miner to know to move on to a new block.

I believe the demo he put together is good to show how to integrate external apps to the Elastic Network...but it should not lead anyone to believe that Elastic can be used to mine other blockchains of any type.
HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
June 08, 2017, 08:40:47 PM
 #100

Originally, I think EK's plan was to have all nodes (the Core Server) run the validation logic; however, the algorithms written in ElasticPL can potentially take quite a bit of time and memory to solve (i.e. seconds...depending on the complexity), so the validation logic could easily be used to attack the network (i.e. submit a complex job and throw 100's of solutions to the nodes to validate).

Right, this is one of the reasons for the small/subtle changes in the payouts model.  Under the model I propose, the attacker would need to re-submit his complex job after each solution he issued to himself.  (His job would also have to be "actually" complex, and not just be full of "meaningless" busy-loops which do not contribute to output value, mind you.)  This creates an opportunity at each solution found for miners to reject his new jobs (or up tx fee for them) if they feel the network becomes too loaded.  At that point the problem becomes no different from an attacker trying to stuff up the btc network with dust transactions filling up the block limit - he can still try to do it but miners can just make it ever more costly for him until he is broke and must just stop because he can no longer afford it.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 ... 123 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!