[ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees

[classicsucks]

Does Bitcoin Cash have its place on the cryptomarket? For sure, it's a decent transactional currency. A store of value? Not so, it's much more centralized than Bitcoin Core - the only team working on it is Ver's, Bitcoin.com.
Do I have a problem with that? - Yes, I do. Roger Ver vouched for the solvency of Mt.Gox, Craig S. Wright lied about him being the creator of Bitcoin, Gavin Andresen quarrels that he was outed of Bitcoin development for consensus reasons (the same Andresen admittedly contacted the FBI before Satoshi left). What other strong developers has Bitcoin Cash? A few people of Bitcoin Unlimited, that anyone barely knows. Bitcoin ABC and Bitcoin XT were to the same extent Roger Ver's "developer communities", existent on the Internet, but not on conferences or IRL.

Forget about personalities, that's what got BTC into trouble in the first place. I remember Maxwell being such an insufferable twat here and elsewhere. Gavin was a naive fool. Garzik was and is an ethically challenged suck-off. I could go on... The point is: the network effect, rising prices, and positive PR are what has brought us here today.

Forget about devs - the work is done, cryptos work fine without their meddling. Again, over-development is what got BTC into trouble - Segwit is a useless albatross around BTC's neck. The blocksize debate was absolutely ridiculous, and all of the Kore claims of disaster if the blocks increase to even 2MB have long been proven completely false now. And Kore and Blockstream's complete inability to understand economics has made this journey PAINFUL.

Remember who works hard every day to make crypto magic - miners, node operators, payment processors, merchants, traders, sysadmins, security consultants, hackers, and the end users!

[serby10101010001100010]

Is the bitcoin replacement operation going on right now ?

Head and shoulders on the bitcoin, the bitcoin cash moving upward

-14,75% it's going upward guys oh wait  

one need to tell these ignorant fucks and shameless bastards that what goes up must go down... have the nerves to post those charts again? suckers

https://s3.amazonaws.com/tradingview/snapshots/w/WUuBxXDY.png

oh wait, you posted that upside down dipshits, do we also have to teach you how to use a fucking web browser?

[hv_]

Price in angel phases should be as low as possible or who wants to buy around the top? Hmm. "Risk - Reward" , what was that about?

[soliton]

What are u waiting from BCC ? 

I  have already said it to those around me after  eth and ltc spikes BCC will be  next in line  and I am  sure this time is coming. 

[snowfu199]

I will be very happy to see more spikes with BCH.
Wasn't BCH pumped already days ago?

[serby10101010001100010]

yeah right kun fu199, clown fu fu fu199? I guess you missed out on this trade, didn't you?

[bones261]

Bitcoin Cash is not going to have a lot of full nodes if things go their way. In order to scale anywhere close to Visa, on chain, as appears to be their goal, a enterprise would need access to equipment capable of storing at least 56 TB of data per year. Probably at least quadruple that, since you want to properly index the data and have proper back ups. A casual user would need to run an SPV client.

For the umpteenth time - Bitcoin Cash has no reason to support Visa-scale transaction volume until such time as demand for transactions reaches Visa scale (is that a tautology?). If we somehow hit that next year, I'll be more than happy to store 56 TB of data that year. Of course, even in the most wildly optimistic scenario, Visa-scale demand is still several years off.

Perhaps you need to discuss this with Craig Wright on Twitter then. It appears nChain is working hard to bring this capacity to reality in 2018, needed or not.

    After watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SJm2ep3X_M&feature=youtu.be
I have come to the conclusion that on-chain scaling is indeed feasible. My previous objections were that it takes pools too long to verify transactions. Therefore, 1GB blocks would result in many empty blocks being mined.

I see no scenario where that would be a consequence. Can you explain? For that matter, how does one quantify 'too many empty blocks'? As long as all transactions are processed with reasonable alacrity, what does the block fullness matter?

Currently, there is a bottleneck in the way nodes need to verify transaction included in the previous block before they start including transactions in the new block they are working on. This is why empty blocks are frequently mined if they arrive within about 30 seconds of the previous block. 1GB blocks would compound this bottleneck 1000x. However, nChain is working on ways to relieve the bottleneck. Therefore, my objection would be thwarted.

However, I still have misgivings about 1 GB blocks since this would require a node to have the storage capacity of over 50tb per year.  

Other than to repeat that we will not consume that much storage until there is actual demand for it, I would like to point out the 50 TB of storage -- today -- costs less than 0.1 BTC (~$1650 USD at standard retail).

At this time, I believe this would cause a barrier to entry for small start ups that require a full node be run. (New exchanges, information services, mining pools etc.)

 
If a startup can't lose 0.1 BTC in the noise of its annual CapEx budget, it is likely to be a non-entity anyhow.

According to Craig Wright, the initial setup would be $20,000. If I wanted to start a block explorer or a sight like fork.lol, that's quite an outlay, especially since it extremely difficult to be able monetize such an informational sight, to make up the costs. I enjoy these information sights and don't deem them "non-entities."

I am not convinced that there is indeed a vulnerability that allows miners to steal your segwit coins. A white hat demonstration of this attack on a testnet would be required to convince me otherwise. Naturally a black hat demonstration on the mainnet would convince me too, but would not be ideal.

What's to misunderstand? A miner operating by the old rules sees a segwit transaction as an anyonecanspend transaction. Accordingly, that miner can spend the output to himself, should he be successful in mining the block. Of course, he would still need to get the other miners to extend his chain. But with enough value caught up in active transactions, there is an incentive for the miners to collude thusly. It may not come to pass, but it may. With Core adamant that they always act to vilify and marginalize the mining community, is it really that farfetched that such may come to pass?

Then it should be trivial to set up a testnet and demonstrate that this can actually happen. Iron clad proof to back up the Segwit hater's claim: Wouldn't that put the cherry on top of the sundae?

  

[svennnny]

^Segwetters lols...have you guys been doing your part, pm all btc users to start using complex segwit (i hear coinbase are struggling to add it)
the segwit demand is so low, that you trolls are needed, but noooooooo....you trolls would rather come and spend your time here....

BCH price correction (up) is on the way.  

Bcash shills lol  

Nice red colour  

Are you a scammer >?

hmm calling me a bcash shill on a bch forum   lols

this red colour has done alot to help BCH...
you do not know how many people follow me from other coins..
coins that i helped become over $20bill in market value, coins with huge communities and dev teams...coins that are backed by FI and other mainstream big businesses..

because of the red, people now see this below under my profile,everyday.......segwetters, the censorship, the mod-troll attacks on users...
they are learning that btab/segwit is a scam....
thanks for the red badge of honour  

Red colour fits Bcash propaganda spammers like you very well 
Make your own forum if you feel attacked for spreading lies 

Yes it was all you , you pumped it to 20 bil didn't you 

When is the flippening ?? 

Please spam some more propaganda how much does Bitcoin Judas pay you ??
Do you receive cookies now 

[hv_]

Enlighten yourselve what happened that lightening was sold to those who don't care about the future of bitcoin

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g


And no blockexplorer needed 

[Mrpumperitis]

^Segwetters lols...have you guys been doing your part, pm all btc users to start using complex segwit (i hear coinbase are struggling to add it)
the segwit demand is so low, that you trolls are needed, but noooooooo....you trolls would rather come and spend your time here....

BCH price correction (up) is on the way.  

Bcash shills lol  

Nice red colour  

Are you a scammer >?

hmm calling me a bcash shill on a bch forum   lols

this red colour has done alot to help BCH...
you do not know how many people follow me from other coins..
coins that i helped become over $20bill in market value, coins with huge communities and dev teams...coins that are backed by FI and other mainstream big businesses..

because of the red, people now see this below under my profile,everyday.......segwetters, the censorship, the mod-troll attacks on users...
they are learning that btab/segwit is a scam....
thanks for the red badge of honour  

Red colour fits Bcash propaganda spammers like you very well 
Make your own forum if you feel attacked for spreading lies 

Yes it was all you , you pumped it to 20 bil didn't you 

When is the flippening ?? 

Please spam some more propaganda how much does Bitcoin Judas pay you ??
Do you receive cookies now 

haha, you sound so butthurt lol   and i now understand, you cant read properly thats why you are so confused 
this is bitcoin forum, bitcoin cash is bitcoin so again..haha
yea it was me, all $20bill, 3times so far     im planning on taking BCH over $100bill soon, so buy em (obs you will be)
flippening? lols, you really are a noob arent you
no one pays me, they should though, esp you trolls that come here to see what im going to do next haha
cookies? eh, what you talking about now, msvennnny   

[OWZ1337]

BeeCash is for whales ~ stupid rich people keep buying! :\ grrrr

[Serega Smile]

Bitcoin Cash is moving closer to being used as an actual currency with its addition to bitcoin’s biggest and oldest payments processor, BitPay.The addition of Bitcoin Cash first, rather than ethereum, is curious because eth has twice bch’s market cap and the ethereum network handles way more transactions than even bitcoin.With Bitcoin Cash one of the top three options and the only one out of the three promoted for its use as a currency for daily commerce.The network has eight times bitcoin’s capacity, able to handle around 2.4 million transactions a day prior to any further protocol improvements or the addition of the Lightning Network.
That allows for nearly free and virtually instant transactions across the globe in a peer-to-peer manner without requiring permission, very much like cash.

[Mrpumperitis]

Excellent post
What an amazing week for Bitcoin cash 

https://www.yours.org/content/bitcoin-cash-ecosystem-updates----week-20--december-10-16--13c162e77ac3/


Bitcoin Cash Ecosystem Updates -- Week 20 (December 10-16)

The last week I've been live blogging the latest developments in the Bitcoin Cash ecosystem.
It cost around a $1 last week for access to a whole week of live updates. This week I want to try something different -- making the whole livebloging free.
This whole week I'll live blog ecosystem updates here because what is happening in the ecosystem is much more fascinating than the daily price moves.
Welcome to the party!
Of course you are always welcome to tip.😛

December 10 2017 Sunday

    Ongoing Bitcoin Unlimited Elections -- and they include some pretty neat BUIPs to add opcodes to Bitcoin Cash.



   Dr. Craig S. Wright says that shorter block confirmation times are  no-go.

https://twitter.com/ProfFaustus/status/939719237911883776
Faster blocks were on the Bitcoin Unlimited roadmap as a possibility future improvement, but it seems even besides Dr. Wright, there is significant opposition in the community to the idea.

    On the topic of fast confirmations, /u/awemany has done a proof-of-concept code for subchains.

https://twitter.com/sickpig/status/939884908838875138
December 11 2017 Monday

    26,000+ Bitcoin.com wallets were created in the last 24 hours. It seems every week the number of Bitcoin.com wallets daily downloads is increasing.

December 12 2017 Tuesday

    Privacy is coming to Bitcoin Cash, with Cash Shuffle. An Electron Cash extension that, according to their website, "allows users to combine their transactions with others, creating obfuscation."
    The largest dark market, Dream Market has enabled Bitcoin Cash support for their merchants. Silk Road was one of the earliest cases for Bitcoin in the early days, so the fact that they're switching to BCH is very good news indeed.
    Bitcoin.com says they will offer a Visa Debit Bitcoin Cash card.

https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/940253050731679744

    Roger Ver gave a great pitch for Bitcoin Cash (and explaining the importance of utility in cryptocurrencies) for CNBC. This pro-BCH interview got top-spot on Yahoo Finance.

https://twitter.com/CNBCFastMoney/status/940361899648065537

    The uncensored reddit and Bitcoin Cash reddit's readers are going through the roof.

https://imgur.com/Iu4AMN0

    Brian Kelly endorsed Bitcoin Cash live on CNBC.

https://twitter.com/Egon_01/status/940363756831420419

    OKEX exchange rolls out full support for BCH trading pairs.
    Another cool Bitcoin Cash block explorer was released by BTC.com.
    Bitcoin Cash is now offered on all Satoshi Point atms. This is at least the third atm company that has started offering BCH support. Lamassu's support has been in the news a lot today. General Bytes  also supports BCH on their machines.

December 13 2017 Wednesday

    Bitcoin.com's wallet has surpassed 1 million installations. Their numbers have taken off since they started offering the wallet, so curious how long it will take them to double.


    There was another great interview of Roger Ver, this time by Jimmy Song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycdSrwlDQuA&t=7s

    Bitcoin Unlimited voting has ended, and BUIP077 (Enable representative tokens via OP_GROUP) on Bitcoin Cash and BUIP078 (Enable Binary Contracts in Bitcoin Cash via OP_DATASIGVERIFY) passed handily. Exciting times are coming for Bitcoin Cash.

December 14 2017 Thursday

    Blockchain.info has released full Bitcoin Cash support for their wallet.


December 14 2017 Thursday

    SFOX opened the doors to Bitcoin Cash trading today. They write: "This move gives traders the power to buy and sell BCH directly with SFOX through its ability to trade across multiple different exchanges, and with access to 9 advanced trading algorithms. " Bullish news, if you ask me.

December 15 2017 Friday

    Brian Kelly again pitched Bitcoin Cash live on CNBC, declaring, "Bitcoin Cash is effectively Bitcoin."
    Edge (formally known as Airbiz) has announced that Bitcoin Cash will be supported in their next wallet.
    Egon reports that incognito payments (one assumes with Cashshuffle) is coming to more wallets January & February.
    Someone has posted a $5,000 bounty to add Cashshuffle.
    Uquid has started offering Bitcoin Cash debit cards. It is only available in some countries though and fees are high.
    The first Bitcoin Cash atomic swap was completed.
    Amaury Sechet, one of the main developers of Bitcoin Cash gave a interview today.  He mentions many more implementations CashShuffle and the address change as two things to long for in the next couple months.

https://youtu.be/C2KJhyBS2s0
December 16 2017 Saturday

    Bitpay.com has announced they are rolling out full support for Bitcoin Cash. Integration with their debit card comes this month and full merchant support early 2018.
    It is now possible to buy Bitcoin Cash with a credit card. The rate isn't too good -- so it will be great to see more companies enter this space.
    BitcoinCash Fund has released a weekly update on what is happening with them. Pretty awesome to see all the work that is being done to further adoption and growth in BCH.
    Mycelium has always been some of the most vocal small-blockers.  Yet they announced that they too will be offering Bitcoin Cash support in their next version.
    Electron Cash says that they are doing the final testing on a new Base32 cashaddr format for BCH. Deployment date is January 14 2018.
    Nejc Kodrič reports that 100k new users are are opening accounts on Bitstamp every day. Bitcoin Cash is one of the few currencies Bitstamp offers -- so very good news indeed.

https://twitter.com/nejc_kodric/status/941956310341423104

    Vaultoro has announced they will offer Bitcoin Cash support! They are hands down the most transparent exchange out there -- with user-verified Bitcoin and gold holdings. (Gold in a secure Swiss vault under the customer's name.)
    Bitcoin Cash is truly going viral. There was a report today of a BCH atm all the way over in Kazakhstan.

https://twitter.com/arruah/status/941907329007669248

[Mrpumperitis]

 Privacy is coming to Bitcoin Cash, with Cash Shuffle. An Electron Cash extension that, according to their website, "allows users to combine their transactions with others, creating obfuscation."
    The largest dark market, Dream Market has enabled Bitcoin Cash support for their merchants. Silk Road was one of the earliest cases for Bitcoin in the early days, so the fact that they're switching to BCH is very good news indeed.

Nice, very very nice 
Privacy is just as important as cheap and fast tx 

[bengsabeng]

this is a very big project. This project has become a very successful project today. this project will continue and will be a bigger project in the future. I will oversee this project and will continue to monitor its progress.

[hdclover]

I have a question on Bitcoin cash.
Bitcoin has good amount of hash rate what if some of them planned a 51% attack on Bitcoin cash? What would happen to Bitcoin cash? Is this some of kind of a serious issue to worry about. I'm thinking this might be serious but interested to know what some experts say.

[Ndlongap Ndlongop]

BCH price is about 10% of BTC, I hope soon to match BTC and marketcap immediately reach number 2 after BTC.

[Bitbobb]

[cInfiniteBtcLetsShare]

I have never understood the Bitcoin community pointing fingers to other projects about how centralized they are, while they are centralized themselves. The proof is the claim that miners attacked Bitcoin during the Bitcoin Cash pump a few weeks ago. If Bitcoin truely was decentralized than miners could not have slowed down the network by moving over to Bitcoin Cash. When Ethereum was having problems of slow transactions during high volume transactions, they were also the first to point that out and laugh at Ethereum. However, Ethereum solved the issue pretty fast and are having way more transactions than Bitcoin at the moment at 100 times lower fees. But Bitcoin has not resolved these issues and issues only have become worse but they will never talk about that. Looks like they only see a real problem when other projects are struggling with something. When their own project is struggling then they don't care about. The only argument being: look at the price. Well, the Bitcoin price is clearly too high for what the network is really worth at the moment. The price is only supported by a bunch of idiots understanding nothing of crypto and throwing all their life savings into it. From a technological point of view Bitcoin is probably not even the best coin in the current top10.

[bones261]

I have a question on Bitcoin cash.
Bitcoin has good amount of hash rate what if some of them planned a 51% attack on Bitcoin cash? What would happen to Bitcoin cash? Is this some of kind of a serious issue to worry about. I'm thinking this might be serious but interested to know what some experts say.

Yes, there is the capability of doing a 51% attack on Bitcoin Cash with the current available hash for SHA-256D. However, the person most likely to be able to pull that off at the moment is Jihan Wu. Since he is a big supporter of Bitcoin Cash, there is probably a bigger chance that I will win the jackpot on Powerball 52 times in a row.