Official CaVirtex.com Thread

[Juzzers]

Fantastic - not a shred of useful information on the delisting.

Absolutely great - I am so glad I invested in this.

I notice the question of WHEN the IPO document was removed from Havelock has been avoided. This was done a long time before the delisting was announced. That certainly seems like a deceitful action and a deceitful answer.

[Juzzers]

Time to finally say something with my lurker account...

I think Havelock CaVirtex (VTX) holders are about to see price collapse.  Why?

Exit price is fixed at $30 a share.  

Above, user freedomno1 linked to a copy of the original prospectus:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=218435.msg3958831#msg3958831
From the prospectus on page 10:
" ⁵ The share price will be fixed at $30 CAD per share (due to our Canadian dollar valuation) but priced in BTC. At the time of this writing [March 18, 2013] using an exchange rate of $46.875 CAD/BTC one share will cost 0.64 BTC. The BTC price will change on Havelock every hour as the BTC/CAD exchange rate changes."

VTX will be converted into physical non-tradeable certificates,

The value of the securities which these will be converted into is fixed in the articles of incorporation at $30 CAD, and they are non-tradeable.  From Havelock:  "to enable holders at the Effective Time to receive physical share certificates... The shares represented by the share certificates are not, and will not be for the foreseeable future, listed on a stock exchange and are subject to transfer restrictions under applicable securities laws."
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=VTX

Current price of VTX at Havelock?
BTC 0.14 (~$118.48)
"Adjusted" exit price?
BTC 0.032ish is 30 Canadian dollars in BTC per share...
An 80% loss instantly vacuuming up all the unprotected shareholder value.

Wow...

Actually the 30 CAD share price is in reference to if CaVirtex is bought out. But there is no indication they are being bought out.

In fact they appear to have simply breached this part of the prospectus (the one they subsequently tried to hide):

Once the IPO is sold out, these shares can be traded on HAVELOCK at user determined prices.

If anyone is a lawyer or knows one familiar with Canadian law perhaps they could contact me or comment on what appears to be a breach of contract. It seems to me that they cannot delist from Havelock without being open to being sued?

[bitcoin carpenter]

I thought this was in reference to the price per stock at the time of sale...
As joseph has already posted that each share represents 1/100000 the of the company, unless they decide to create more shares.

I think we need more clarity on this issue

[acorcos]

So how will issuing more shares change the percentage of ownership that one share holds?
Unless you split shares that is.

That's right. We are the Eduardo Savarin (remember Facebook) in this scenario: Big VC money comes in and we get diluted down to Butkus.

[bitcoin carpenter]

well its 4 ok mountain time and trading isnt open

[freedomno1]

Here is the email I got this morning:

De-Listing Questions:

Questions:
1) Havelock stated the sale of 10,000 units was for 10% of the company. This should mean as a holder of 200 shares that these certificates will equate to ownership of exactly 0.2% of the company. Does this remain true?

Yes at the present moment, but the company may raise additional capital by issuing new shares in the future.

Quick question on Share Dillution
If new capital is will current shareholders have their assets doubled

200 shares of 100,000 or 0.2% of the Company
Company issues new shares 2x
So will that mean 400 of 200,000 or 0.4% of the Company

Or is it a complete dissolution and 200 of 200,000 in that case or 0.1% of the Company



Just for noting the Havelock asset is still closed at MT 4:00
Trading Halt:
Trading of VTX will be halted until Dec 18 2013 4:00pm(MST) where it will then resume until Dec 31 2013 4:00pm(MST).

[Juzzers]

So it seems Virtex has now not kept it's word about resuming trading, it's 4:37PM MST 18th Dec.

[cavirtex]

As per our twitter message:

"We are experiencing technical difficulties with the re-opening of Trading of VTX on http://havelockinvestments.com , we are working on it now."

after 1 hour of investigation, trading can now be resumed.

[thatBtcGuy]

I would appreciate an answer about my issue: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=367951

Been over 20 days since my bank withdrawal got accepted and I still didn't get the money, but lost the btc.

[MJD]

If anyone is a lawyer or knows one familiar with Canadian law perhaps they could contact me or comment on what appears to be a breach of contract. It seems to me that they cannot delist from Havelock without being open to being sued?

IANAL, but based upon what I asked some people who are more familiar with trading, the documents CaVirtex put out are not "formal" documents.  While you might be able to argue in a court it was still a contract, the court may not look so happily on the situation, as you did invest using a non-official currency (if the court would consider it a currency) in a foreign country.  In fact, because of the edge of the law you are trading on, it makes sense for CaVirtex to delist.  If you assume they are honest, then trading in a virtual currency on a foreign exchange does nothing to help them appear as a valid corporation, and probably skirts the edge of corporate law anyway.

That being said, I am an investor to and hope that we are taken care of appropriately.

[explorer]

good to see that the news didn't crash the price  Well, only by 60% or so. So Far...

[_mr_e]

good to see that the news didn't crash the price  Well, only by 60% or so. So Far...

Those are some cheap shares! Thank you sellers!

[explorer]

good to see that the news didn't crash the price  Well, only by 60% or so. So Far...

Those are some cheap shares! Thank you sellers!

Cheap or worthless? Hard to say.

[_mr_e]

good to see that the news didn't crash the price  Well, only by 60% or so. So Far...

Those are some cheap shares! Thank you sellers!

Cheap or worthless? Hard to say.

Is it really that hard to say? Anyone who thinks virtex is worthless is a fool or in a country where they can't legally own shares.

[CleverMiner]

IIRC these share were initially sold at 30$ worth,

The company failed to return a single satoshi in profit / dividend during a whole year.
they didn't even issue their financial report.

I've got a hard time figuring how anyone will manage to place a value these now non-tradable shares.

If all revenue were reinvested as they claim why has the website merely improved since last year. Vaultofsatoshi is much more functional and evolving fast.
You guys better get your shit together if you want to stay relevant.

[acorcos]

good to see that the news didn't crash the price  Well, only by 60% or so. So Far...

Those are some cheap shares! Thank you sellers!

Cheap or worthless? Hard to say.

Is it really that hard to say? Anyone who thinks virtex is worthless is a fool or in a country where they can't legally own shares.

No question VirtEx has value, that's why we're in this situation.

They have almost certainly caught the attention of angel investors or venture capital money (ie GreenBank) looking to incubate bitcoin start-ups in Canada. To move forward they will require legitimacy (..... no virtual exchanges or virtual shares) and an exit strategy (.... listing on the Canadian Stock Exchange).

They will also require a substantial ownership stake in the company. Some of that will come from Joe and his partners but, I suspect, much of it will also come from the 10% chunk tied up in Havelock. Once freed up, there's likely to be a significant (1 or 2 orders of magnitude or more) dilution.

I agree with CleverMiner in so far as it's almost impossible to discern a value here, for so many reasons. It's truly a gamble; you could hit big, you could lose it all. So treat it that way; only bet an amount you're willing to lose.

[Bobsurplus]

good to see that the news didn't crash the price  Well, only by 60% or so. So Far...

Those are some cheap shares! Thank you sellers!

Cheap or worthless? Hard to say.

Is it really that hard to say? Anyone who thinks virtex is worthless is a fool or in a country where they can't legally own shares.

No question VirtEx has value, that's why we're in this situation.

They have almost certainly caught the attention of angel investors or venture capital money (ie GreenBank) looking to incubate bitcoin start-ups in Canada.

Greenbank is going nowhere fast, the just did a reverse split on their stocks.. you don't do that unless you're in deep doodoo.

[acorcos]

good to see that the news didn't crash the price  Well, only by 60% or so. So Far...

Those are some cheap shares! Thank you sellers!

Cheap or worthless? Hard to say.

Is it really that hard to say? Anyone who thinks virtex is worthless is a fool or in a country where they can't legally own shares.

No question VirtEx has value, that's why we're in this situation.

They have almost certainly caught the attention of angel investors or venture capital money (ie GreenBank) looking to incubate bitcoin start-ups in Canada.

Greenbank is going nowhere fast, the just did a reverse split on their stocks.. you don't do that unless you're in deep doodoo.

Investors are taking notice:

http://www.coindesk.com/greenbank-capital-launches-bitcoin-subsidiaries/

...is my point.

[DannyDisco]

Hey CAVirtex...

I'd just like to point out that I have a support ticket open since December 4th and I still haven't received a response.

I understand you guys are backlogged... but this has been 16 days without even an acknowledgement of a ticket. It's getting a little out of hand.

You should probably deal with your existing customer's issues and close new registrations until you guys can sort this stuff out. I know I'm doing all my Bitcoin business elsewhere until my ticket gets sorted out because it has to do with a missing balance. All I've got to say is that I've never had to wait longer than 2 days for a response from any other Bitcoin service.

I like you guys... I really do... but it's getting harder and harder to justify with every passing day.

[moni3z]

Hey CAVirtex...

I'd just like to point out that I have a support ticket open since December 4th and I still haven't received a response.

I understand you guys are backlogged... but this has been 16 days without even an acknowledgement of a ticket. It's getting a little out of hand.

You should probably deal with your existing customer's issues and close new registrations until you guys can sort this stuff out. I know I'm doing all my Bitcoin business elsewhere until my ticket gets sorted out because it has to do with a missing balance. All I've got to say is that I've never had to wait longer than 2 days for a response from any other Bitcoin service.

I like you guys... I really do... but it's getting harder and harder to justify with every passing day.

I'm still missing ~100CAD from them. Support opened a bank trace, never heard back. Since bank trace costs nearly all that money I just decided to cut it up as a loss and won't ever use them. I have no problems doing large xfers with local p2p traders since then