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Author Topic: [OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 #  (Read 417609 times)
Bismarckbkk
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January 30, 2014, 10:36:21 PM
 #3981

My guess is this person is too stupid to understand PPLNS, probably the same person who emailed me the other day since he had the same "40 minutes is too short, you're screwing people" argument.

My guess (given his lack of proper english) is he's referring to the per share rate in the last 24 hours being less than it was for the same # of block solves in shifts a day or two before.  Which is obvious, and there's even a news post on BTC Guild explaining it:  Shifts were increased from 2.5 billion to 3.25 billion shares.  That means when a block is solved, it's split over 25% more shares, meaning the payout per block is 25% less.  But, it also lasts 25% longer, meaning on average a shift will find...wait for it...25% more blocks.  It ends up being the same damn number you moron.

Or to put it simple. Shorter shifts = more shifts.


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January 30, 2014, 10:37:30 PM
 #3982

My guess is this person is too stupid to understand PPLNS, probably the same person who emailed me the other day since he had the same "40 minutes is too short, you're screwing people" argument.

My guess (given his lack of proper english) is he's referring to the per share rate in the last 24 hours being less than it was for the same # of block solves in shifts a day or two before.  14452 paid more per share for 13 blocks than 14486 which also had 13 blocks in his screenshot.

Which is obvious, and there's even a news post on BTC Guild, and a forum post explaining it:  Shifts were increased from 2.5 billion to 3.25 billion shares.  That means when a block is solved, it's split over 25% more shares, meaning the payout per block is 25% less.  But, it also lasts 25% longer, meaning on average a shift will find...wait for it...25% more blocks.  It ends up being the same damn number you moron.
Angry Sounds like scammer talk to me.
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January 30, 2014, 10:43:11 PM
 #3983

Eligius is quickly becoming the no#2 guild and it's nice to see  Grin I used to mine at BTCGUIld until i realized how they started shortening and screwing miners with Shorter 40 min rounds so winning Rounds paid out LEss and found less blocks!!I complained to the admin there and he then tried to say time doesn't matter on rounds? and that's complete BS longer rounds =more shares and a winning round will Pay more! they then changed back to longer rounds after i complained only to shorten the pay on winning Blocks! Unreal and grimy!! talk about greed! as if their 3% and 7% fees they charge isn't enough? I put the word out and now tell everyone to come here! thanks for running a honest setup whiz the community Needs more people Like you!!!! keep up the good work long Live Eligius!!!

You don't really understand bitcoin mining yet, do you? Well, don't let it get you down - just do a lot more reading! Smiley

Welcome to my world.  Just don't expect them to ever start reading, they're convinced they completely understand everything already.  I find their ability to write coherent sentences is a good indicator of how much they actually know.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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organofcorti
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January 30, 2014, 11:08:49 PM
 #3984

Eligius is quickly becoming the no#2 guild and it's nice to see  Grin I used to mine at BTCGUIld until i realized how they started shortening and screwing miners with Shorter 40 min rounds so winning Rounds paid out LEss and found less blocks!!I complained to the admin there and he then tried to say time doesn't matter on rounds? and that's complete BS longer rounds =more shares and a winning round will Pay more! they then changed back to longer rounds after i complained only to shorten the pay on winning Blocks! Unreal and grimy!! talk about greed! as if their 3% and 7% fees they charge isn't enough? I put the word out and now tell everyone to come here! thanks for running a honest setup whiz the community Needs more people Like you!!!! keep up the good work long Live Eligius!!!

You don't really understand bitcoin mining yet, do you? Well, don't let it get you down - just do a lot more reading! Smiley

Welcome to my world.  Just don't expect them to ever start reading, they're convinced they completely understand everything already.  I find their ability to write coherent sentences is a good indicator of how much they actually know.

If he has problems understanding PPLNS, I do worry about his ability to understand Eligius' shelved shares.

@thejewelrytech - honestly, at this point I think it would be best if you signed up with a pool offering pure PPS, at least until you follow things a bit better. I'm not being mean here, I just think it will save you a lot of stress until you're up to speed.

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zerokwel
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January 30, 2014, 11:09:44 PM
 #3985

Eligius is quickly becoming the no#2 guild and it's nice to see  Grin I used to mine at BTCGUIld until i realized how they started shortening and screwing miners with Shorter 40 min rounds so winning Rounds paid out LEss and found less blocks!!I complained to the admin there and he then tried to say time doesn't matter on rounds? and that's complete BS longer rounds =more shares and a winning round will Pay more! they then changed back to longer rounds after i complained only to shorten the pay on winning Blocks! Unreal and grimy!! talk about greed! as if their 3% and 7% fees they charge isn't enough? I put the word out and now tell everyone to come here! thanks for running a honest setup whiz the community Needs more people Like you!!!! keep up the good work long Live Eligius!!!

You don't really understand bitcoin mining yet, do you? Well, don't let it get you down - just do a lot more reading! Smiley
You must be the admin for BTc Roll Eyes I understand it PERFECTLY if I do a round with 150000 shares in 50 min and it pays .0000000154 per share as opposed to a short round with 115000 shares at the same rate thats LESS MONEy Math doesn't Lie!!!!! maybe you don't understand Math? Go back to school TROLL! and go look at the numbers they just lowered the pay for winning Blocks 15 Blocks found in a round don't even equal full PPS RATE RIPPING PEOPLE OFF but of course the person scamming is not going to admit that! that would take a real MAN something your NOT! thats why BTC just FELL HERES PICTURE PROOF DUMB ASS!!

First Off I would like to say sorry to Eligius users for this spam you don't need in your pool thread..

1) eleuthria is the admin of btcguild. So you saying anyone who disagrees with you must be connected to btcguild (tinfoil hat much)

4) you REALLY don't know how how prop/pplns systems work..

a3) read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130021.msg1413794#msg1413794  or http://pool-x.eu/aboutpplns   (hope you don't mind the links wizkid used a altpool tho)

7B) pools Luck changes hence why its called luck sometimes pools find more than the normal amount of blocks and sometimes less this is called Variance.

b432d) now you have read all this.. time to eat humble pie and say sorry eleuthria..

p.s I used a numbering system your math should understand
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January 30, 2014, 11:34:37 PM
 #3986

Back on topic:
3 questions about Eligius.

1) When I look at the payment queue I see at number 1 "2 weeks, 5 days, 20 hours and 14 minutes"
Why is the payment for the miner so late? Or do I misunderstand something?

2) I see "+105% PPS NMC" but where is the option to fill in my NMC address?

3) I read: "Miners may suggest messages for payout coinbases." Can someone explain this?

Maybe the questions look silly in the eyes of an experienced miner, but answering helps me and maybe lot of other people.

Thanks in advance!
thejewelrytech
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January 30, 2014, 11:48:16 PM
 #3987

just look at the numbers and try to explain how everyone isn't getting screwed ? You Mad Bro cause you got EXPOSED!!!!!these are blocks paid a couple  days ago and today
I'm not sure what you find confusing about that. You're signed up for PPLNS, so your reward is proportional to the number of blocks found. Shifts 14480 to 14488 were periods of low luck so there were less blocks found per unit time and the equivalent PPS is lower. 14449 to 14453 comparatively found many more blocks per unit time, so they paid more per share.

If you want 0 variance, sign up for PPS.
Look at the PPS the numbers don't Lie 17 blocks found today paid for 53  min round .0000000128410 per share 16 blocks today paid .0000000119444 blocks found paid
The day before 16 blocks found per round  the other day paid .00000001549055 for 40 min round  now if that was a 53 min round there would be roughly 1400000 shares paid at that price as opposed too 115000 shares paid  which those extra shares are now being paid the block under @ 15 block price of .00000001452400 pps but this is obviously over some peoples heads numbers and the PPS don't Lie it says what we are getting paid right there but hey nobody is stopping anyone from mining there if you want to work for LESS go for it!!

Your either part of THE SOLUTION?Or your part of THE PROBLEM!
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January 30, 2014, 11:51:42 PM
 #3988

Look at the PPS the numbers don't Lie 17 blocks found today paid for 53  min round .0000000128410 per share 16 blocks today paid .0000000119444 blocks found paid
The day before 16 blocks found per round  the other day paid .00000001549055 for 40 min round  now if that was a 53 min round there would be roughly 1400000 shares paid at that price as opposed too 115000 shares paid  which those extra shares are now being paid the block under @ 15 block price of .00000001452400 pps but this is obviously over some peoples heads numbers and the PPS don't Lie it says what we are getting paid right there but hey nobody is stopping anyone from mining there if you want to work for LESS go for it!!

Please refrain from breeding.  It will not end well for humanity.  It was explicitly stated previously.  You are too stupid to understand PPLNS, but you're also too ignorant to know you don't know how it works.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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January 30, 2014, 11:52:34 PM
 #3989

Back on topic:
3 questions about Eligius.

1) When I look at the payment queue I see at number 1 "2 weeks, 5 days, 20 hours and 14 minutes"
Why is the payment for the miner so late? Or do I misunderstand something?

2) I see "+105% PPS NMC" but where is the option to fill in my NMC address?

3) I read: "Miners may suggest messages for payout coinbases." Can someone explain this?

Maybe the questions look silly in the eyes of an experienced miner, but answering helps me and maybe lot of other people.

Thanks in advance!
1. That user just exceeded their minimum payment threshold, so they just got added into the payment queue. They haven't been in the queue two weeks.
2. Under My Eligius
organofcorti
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January 31, 2014, 12:41:08 AM
 #3990

Back on topic:
3 questions about Eligius.

1) When I look at the payment queue I see at number 1 "2 weeks, 5 days, 20 hours and 14 minutes"
Why is the payment for the miner so late? Or do I misunderstand something?

2) I see "+105% PPS NMC" but where is the option to fill in my NMC address?

3) I read: "Miners may suggest messages for payout coinbases." Can someone explain this?

Maybe the questions look silly in the eyes of an experienced miner, but answering helps me and maybe lot of other people.

Thanks in advance!
1. That user just exceeded their minimum payment threshold, so they just got added into the payment queue. They haven't been in the queue two weeks.
2. Under My Eligius


3. That's awesome! I didn't realise Eligius did this! The coinbase message is a message encoded in the coinbase. I know that doesn't help much, but rather than OT this whole page, just check this link:

https://blockchain.info/tx/289dc441a8a29749b7b1eacbd036b8a0f708f66c40a289f3babfcc3854b5f635

(make sure you have the "Hide scripts & coinbase" unchecked)

If you look at the section marked "Coinbase" you'll see a bunch of alphanumerics and below that:

Quote
(decoded) �R EligiusR���mm�| �k#�ոk'   �ҿ��������� �U/s0test/�{��f

That's the decoded coinbase message. What I understand from your quote is that Eligius is considering allowing miners to add to the coinbase message - fantastic! You can get your little bit of bitcoin immortality right here.

(wizkid - if I'm wrong please don't embarrass me Smiley  )

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January 31, 2014, 01:22:58 AM
 #3991

just look at the numbers and try to explain how everyone isn't getting screwed ? You Mad Bro cause you got EXPOSED!!!!!these are blocks paid a couple  days ago and today
I'm not sure what you find confusing about that. You're signed up for PPLNS, so your reward is proportional to the number of blocks found. Shifts 14480 to 14488 were periods of low luck so there were less blocks found per unit time and the equivalent PPS is lower. 14449 to 14453 comparatively found many more blocks per unit time, so they paid more per share.

If you want 0 variance, sign up for PPS.
Look at the PPS the numbers don't Lie 17 blocks found today paid for 53  min round .0000000128410 per share 16 blocks today paid .0000000119444 blocks found paid
The day before 16 blocks found per round  the other day paid .00000001549055 for 40 min round  now if that was a 53 min round there would be roughly 1400000 shares paid at that price as opposed too 115000 shares paid  which those extra shares are now being paid the block under @ 15 block price of .00000001452400 pps but this is obviously over some peoples heads numbers and the PPS don't Lie it says what we are getting paid right there but hey nobody is stopping anyone from mining there if you want to work for LESS go for it!!

First off, I know I'm still fairly new to this, but shifts under PPLNS are determined by the number of shares submitted, not the amount of time.  Therefore the length of a round is irrelevant.  Rounds get shorter as hashing power for the pool increases, as hashing power increases so do blocks found.  So, in the long run, say the course of a day, week, month, your income will over all be the same irrelevant of the length of time each shift lasts. 

Second, when you mine for any pool under PPLNS, you will experience variance.  This is due to the fact that sometimes the pool gets lucky and finds a block in 10 minutes and sometimes it takes several hours.  The one thing you have under PPLNS rather than purely a proportional system per block, is you get paid for your shares over the course of several blocks which will help lower the variance.

The moral of the story here is that you don't look at income per share, but income over a period of time.  The only time income per share matters is under a pure PPS system where you get x per share you submit, regardless of the blocks being found.  This is riskier for pools, so most charge a higher fee, like BTC Guild's 7% vs. 3% PPLNS because they agree to pay you the same even when the pool gets unlucky.  So if you don't want to experience variance, you should switch your workers to use PPS vs. PPLNS  because it is the only way you'll get paid the same each time you find a share.
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January 31, 2014, 01:31:09 AM
 #3992

Well thank god for that notice that just appeared about the "AUTO-NOTICE: The CPPSRB reward system appears to be in fail-safe mode."  I was just about to post about my stats seeming to be frozen.
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January 31, 2014, 01:34:33 AM
 #3993

First off, I know I'm still fairly new to this, but shifts under PPLNS are determined by the number of shares submitted, not the amount of time.  Therefore the length of a round is irrelevant.  Rounds get shorter as hashing power for the pool increases, as hashing power increases so do blocks found.  So, in the long run, say the course of a day, week, month, your income will over all be the same irrelevant of the length of time each shift lasts.  

Second, when you mine for any pool under PPLNS, you will experience variance.  This is due to the fact that sometimes the pool gets lucky and finds a block in 10 minutes and sometimes it takes several hours.  The one thing you have under PPLNS rather than purely a proportional system per block, is you get paid for your shares over the course of several blocks which will help lower the variance.

The moral of the story here is that you don't look at income per share, but income over a period of time.  The only time income per share matters is under a pure PPS system where you get x per share you submit, regardless of the blocks being found.  This is riskier for pools, so most charge a higher fee, like BTC Guild's 7% vs. 3% PPLNS because they agree to pay you the same even when the pool gets unlucky.  So if you don't want to experience variance, you should switch your workers to use PPS vs. PPLNS  because it is the only way you'll get paid the same each time you find a share.

Nice to see someone fairly new that actually has read up on these things and understands them.  What you've posted is extremely close to the explanation I gave on the forum and BTC Guild news post.  One tiny correction: the per share rate "does matter", in that BTC Guild's PPLNS system also provides you a number showing how much any given share was paid in that shift.  It does so because some people like to compare what they're earning on PPLNS directly against PPS.  Obviously the per share rate varies dramatically from shift to shift by luck, but it's just something people have requested to be visible.

The rest of your post is spot on though.  The length of shifts mean *nothing* in the long run.  They simply control the minimum and maximum expected values of a given shift.  Longer shifts = reduced maximum and increased minimum, squeezing the expected variance into a narrower band on the chart.  Longer shifts means the amount paid to each share when a block is solved goes down, but the length of the shift means you will likely see more blocks found before the shift is closed, which ends up being a wash.  Overall, the only thing that matters is pool luck during the time you're mining, the shifts are just an accounting method used to allocate + audit your fair share of the pool's blocks.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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January 31, 2014, 01:59:04 AM
 #3994

So, I realize that I've only got like -4 posts on these boards, and no cred  Cry, and I'm not sure that I understand PPLNSQWERTY system (actually, I can read and it's been explained a few times in this thread and in a few ways and to prove no grasp on rules of grammar, I just committed a run-on sentence infraction and omitted an article where it was technically needed), but can someone tell me - not that there's an obligation: When the fuck did this become the BTC Guild thread? lol

JewelTheif, or whatever you're called... Post that shit on the proper board, or at a different board where it doesn't belong. I'm cool with either. I want to read updates from WK about how I'm not losing any shares (I'm not, am I?*), and not read about your complaints with the dude who runs a pool I'm not even using. No offense BTC Guild guy. It's a lovely setup you have over there. And as for JewelryStore, I'm 99.99999999999999% you're not getting fucked over. Since we are talking about the world of BTC, I obviously can't say that it's 100% the case that you're not. Still, it's pretty fucking unlikely. Now, please go elsewhere while I wait on WK. Thank you, and may fortune smile upon you.


*Question meant as rhetorical tool for humor. Do not take seriously.
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January 31, 2014, 02:02:26 AM
 #3995

My apologies to wizkid.  I wouldn't have responded at all if this user's posts weren't pointed out in my thread.  This kind of derailment is why I had my thread converted to self-moderated, but I also won't let somebody hide in another thread spouting provably false information.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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January 31, 2014, 02:03:43 AM
 #3996

Easy guys

Well thank god for that notice that just appeared about the "AUTO-NOTICE: The CPPSRB reward system appears to be in fail-safe mode."  I was just about to post about my stats seeming to be frozen.

The notice disappeared but my stats still show the same balance, I guess it's processing the backlog now...

EDIT: it's all good now

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davebodger
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January 31, 2014, 02:04:37 AM
 #3997

Well thank god for that notice that just appeared about the "AUTO-NOTICE: The CPPSRB reward system appears to be in fail-safe mode."  I was just about to post about my stats seeming to be frozen.

Hmmm, the red message has gone away now but my stats are still frozen.
Never mind, it's time for bed.
I'm sure it will look better in the morning.
NNST.

If you think I deserve it - BTC always welcome - 14GkxT2xcpgvGVBgMjtGeFiXrxnttBSRRF
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January 31, 2014, 02:10:43 AM
 #3998

My apologies to wizkid.  I wouldn't have responded at all if this user's posts weren't pointed out in my thread.  This kind of derailment is why I had my thread converted to self-moderated, but I also won't let somebody hide in another thread spouting provably false information.

No, man, it's all good. You have a right to defend yourself the last I checked. I just want the dude to chill out with that noise. He was getting slammed down already for being windy. Points were made, tears were shed, hugs were given... The guy called you a scammer, or at least called your pool a scam (I'd love 0.0000001 BTC for every time that word, or any variation thereof, was used at this site), so you had to spell out why it's not. Nobody should should fault you for that. The other guy lit the flame.
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January 31, 2014, 02:40:27 AM
 #3999

This will be my last post on the subject but your under the assumption a miner would stay 24 Hours a day so therefor it doesnt make a difference? I and many other  miners don't stand 24 hours why would any miner want to stay during losing blocks times?lol  so the times mining there's more chance of finding blocks in 50 min and catching a good streak then 40 min just look at numbers today you never get 21 finds in a 40 min block and now shifts increase and it magically happens ! I rest my case...........

Your either part of THE SOLUTION?Or your part of THE PROBLEM!
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January 31, 2014, 02:51:04 AM
 #4000

This will be my last post on the subject but your under the assumption a miner would stay 24 Hours a day so therefor it doesnt make a difference? I and many other  miners don't stand 24 hours why would any miner want to stay during losing blocks times?lol  so the times mining there's more chance of finding blocks in 50 min and catching a good streak then 40 min just look at numbers today you never get 21 finds in a 40 min block and now shifts increase and it magically happens ! I rest my case...........

The expected value of your share is the same.  Always.  It doesn't matter what the shift settings are.  It doesn't matter what the pool speed is.  The expected value of a share never changes.  Pool luck is the ONLY thing that affects the realized value on your shares.  This is true on *EVERY* payment system except PPS, where the realized value is static regardless of pool luck.

Count the blocks BTC Guild solved yesterday.  Count the blocks it solved today.  It's a hell of a lot more, which is exactly why yesterday's payments sucked and todays have not.

Stay in school kids, otherwise you'll look like this moron.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
BTC Guild Forum Thread
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