[OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 #

[Luke-Jr]

Link: Helpful summary of all Bitcoin units

Thanks for that link, the one I found earlier didn't have such a long list... although the first thing that came to mind when I saw that was "Bitcoin needs less confusing denominations!"

The purpose of TBC (and the Tonal system in general) is to simplify numbers. It does require relearning for those who have been raised with decimal, of course, so it cannot be exclusive yet.

[Xephan]

Link: Helpful summary of all Bitcoin units

Thanks for that link, the one I found earlier didn't have such a long list... although the first thing that came to mind when I saw that was "Bitcoin needs less confusing denominations!"

The purpose of TBC (and the Tonal system in general) is to simplify numbers. It does require relearning for those who have been raised with decimal, of course, so it cannot be exclusive yet.

It sounds almost like a recipe for disaster and fraud though

"How on earth did the costs go up by 100x?!"
"It didn't, the quotation we gave you were in Tonal Bitcoins, see that little thingy in front of TBC...?"

[Carnth]

The purpose of TBC (and the Tonal system in general) is to simplify numbers. It does require relearning for those who have been raised with decimal, of course, so it cannot be exclusive yet.

I do not get Tonal at all. Is it just hexadecimal?

I just realized this question was off-topic, but I'm posting anyway!

[Luke-Jr]

The purpose of TBC (and the Tonal system in general) is to simplify numbers. It does require relearning for those who have been raised with decimal, of course, so it cannot be exclusive yet.

I do not get Tonal at all. Is it just hexadecimal?

No, tonal uses different glyphs for digits (ie, it doesn't recycle letters), and comes complete with units of measure, time, etc. As I write this, it is 7 Kolumbian 16 at about .T. My keyboard's space key is .8 metertons long.

[Xephan]

The purpose of TBC (and the Tonal system in general) is to simplify numbers. It does require relearning for those who have been raised with decimal, of course, so it cannot be exclusive yet.

I do not get Tonal at all. Is it just hexadecimal?

I just realized this question was off-topic, but I'm posting anyway!

No it's not, it's worse
Instead of inserting his new numerals after the normal sequence, the engineer who proposed this snuck one in between 8 and 9, he must had been laughing at the prospects of people messing up thinking they were looking at 90 (ninety) in his notes but was actually a kohu (one hundred)

[twmz]

That's cool, way better than the current 0.005

FYI, the current requirement enforced by the satoshi client (aka the official client) is 0.0005, not 0.005.  And the official client only requires 0.0001 to relay "spam" transactions.  Free transactions that don't trigger the spam detection rules are still and always have been permitted with no transaction fees (you just can't send create 0 fee transactions with the official client).

[Luke-Jr]

people messing up thinking they were looking at 90 (ninety) in his notes but was actually a kohu (one hundred)

90 (ko ton) is neither ninety nor one hundred. It is one hundred sixty (160) in decimal.
Ko ton hu (9) is one hundred seventy-one (171).
"Kohu" is nonsense.

[Xephan]

people messing up thinking they were looking at 90 (ninety) in his notes but was actually a kohu (one hundred)

90 (ko ton) is neither ninety nor one hundred. It is one hundred sixty (160) in decimal.
Ko ton hu (9) is one hundred seventy-one (171).
"Kohu" is nonsense.

LOL I tripped myself up because I was got stuck in decimal mode in between 9 (converting this to decimal 10) and 0 (forgetting this is now 16)

[Xephan]

Eligius is clearly listed as having a 0.2 TBC minimum transaction fee, as published elsewhere.

Need some clarifications again after further reading. Does this mean that for a normal transaction of say 10 BTC but has no transaction fee since the client doesn't force it, eligius will relay it but will not include it for processing in a block?

[Luke-Jr]

Eligius is clearly listed as having a 0.2 TBC minimum transaction fee, as published elsewhere.

Need some clarifications again after further reading. Does this mean that for a normal transaction of say 10 BTC but has no transaction fee since the client doesn't force it, eligius will relay it but will not include it for processing in a block?

This is more or less correct.

[Schleicher]

No, tonal uses different glyphs for digits (ie, it doesn't recycle letters), and comes complete with units of measure, time, etc. As I write this, it is 7 Kolumbian 16 at about .T. My keyboard's space key is .8 metertons long.

Am I the only one seeing squares here?

[DiabloD3]

No, tonal uses different glyphs for digits (ie, it doesn't recycle letters), and comes complete with units of measure, time, etc. As I write this, it is 7 Kolumbian 16 at about .T. My keyboard's space key is .8 metertons long.

Am I the only one seeing squares here?

We all see it. Unicode fonts typically don't contain the official symbols for meth and cocaine.

[Jack of Diamonds]

No, tonal uses different glyphs for digits (ie, it doesn't recycle letters), and comes complete with units of measure, time, etc. As I write this, it is 7 Kolumbian 16 at about .T. My keyboard's space key is .8 metertons long.

Am I the only one seeing squares here?

We all see it. Unicode fonts typically don't contain the official symbols for meth and cocaine.

That's what I see.

[bcforum]

Is the payout system broken? I haven't received a payout for the last five blocks (last three over the payout threshold)?

[Artefact2]

Is the payout system broken? I haven't received a payout for the last five blocks (last three over the payout threshold)?

Short answer: yes, but don't worry, it's by design.

[bcforum]

A tad more explanation here would be rather useful.

Currently, I see an eligius stat page that says:

Code:

Unpaid reward : <some number much larger than 0.33554432> BTC
This is the reward you earned by contributing to the previous blocks. This amount will be paid to you when it reaches approximately 0.33554432 BTC or after one week of inactivity, when the pool finds a block.

and that is a little unnerving. What this behaviour documented
somewhere ?

That has always been the case, and previously the payment went out a block or two after the threshold was crossed.

Thought I'd ask before I take my business to another
pool.

Because of the lack of response from Luke-jr, and the rather flippant answer from Artefact2 I have moved to another pool until Eligius's payments catch up.

[anodyne]

The "broken by design" part is due to the fact that the pool pays by generation – so payments are limited to the 50BTC, plus income from fees, that can be fit into that part of a block. So, since the PPS system means that the pool can reward more than 50BTC during a round, rewards accumulated during long rounds cause a backlog that will have to be fit into future blocks.

Once you get over the threshold, you can get an estimate on your place in the queue on this page made by twmz: http://eligius.st/~twmz/


And yes, I agree that it could be made a little bit clearer, since the information about the payout threshold on the stats pages dates back to the time when the pool was still proportional.

[bcforum]

Once you get over the threshold, you can get an estimate on your place in the queue on this page made by twmz: http://eligius.st/~twmz/

 Thanks Anodyne!

[Artefact2]

The "broken by design" part is due to the fact that the pool pays by generation – so payments are limited to the 50BTC, plus income from fees, that can be fit into that part of a block. So, since the PPS system means that the pool can reward more than 50BTC during a round, rewards accumulated during long rounds cause a backlog that will have to be fit into future blocks.

Once you get over the threshold, you can get an estimate on your place in the queue on this page made by twmz: http://eligius.st/~twmz/


And yes, I agree that it could be made a little bit clearer, since the information about the payout threshold on the stats pages dates back to the time when the pool was still proportional.

Nice explanation. If your tool generates a computer-readable dump somewhere on the disk, I could read it and show an estimate "you should be paid in X blocks" (and linking to your page of course) instead of the misleading explanation. But then again, it would be all the more upsetting because it's just an estimate. What do you think?

[anodyne]

The "broken by design" part is due to the fact that the pool pays by generation – so payments are limited to the 50BTC, plus income from fees, that can be fit into that part of a block. So, since the PPS system means that the pool can reward more than 50BTC during a round, rewards accumulated during long rounds cause a backlog that will have to be fit into future blocks.

Once you get over the threshold, you can get an estimate on your place in the queue on this page made by twmz: http://eligius.st/~twmz/


And yes, I agree that it could be made a little bit clearer, since the information about the payout threshold on the stats pages dates back to the time when the pool was still proportional.

Nice explanation. If your tool generates a computer-readable dump somewhere on the disk, I could read it and show an estimate "you should be paid in X blocks" (and linking to your page of course) instead of the misleading explanation. But then again, it would be all the more upsetting because it's just an estimate. What do you think?

Not my tool, so no idea how to get at the data... but changing the wording on the page to something along the lines of "your reward will be placed in the payout queue once it crosses the threshold" could be a start, and maybe followed by "click here for an estimate of the payment progress".

I think the wiki could use a few lines on the limitations of the generation payout system as well, for easy linkage. Maybe I'll take care of that tomorrow.