Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest

[zeeman]

I tried to look for some info that I couldn's find. Maybe someone here knows where to get it.
When I buy Apple stock I can see the daily +0.34% or -4% etc. When I look some further I can even see Apple up 20% in a couple of weeks etc.

When it come to Just-Dice I can see daily profit in CLAMS, but is there a graph anywhere showing how much an investment is up in % for a day? Say someone
invested 100 coins, are they up 1% (to 101 CLAMS) or down 2% (98 CLAMS). Is there a maximum drwaback over X-months, showing how much in % an investment in the house
went down??? 

[Keyser Soze]

I tried to look for some info that I couldn's find. Maybe someone here knows where to get it.
When I buy Apple stock I can see the daily +0.34% or -4% etc. When I look some further I can even see Apple up 20% in a couple of weeks etc.

When it come to Just-Dice I can see daily profit in CLAMS, but is there a graph anywhere showing how much an investment is up in % for a day? Say someone
invested 100 coins, are they up 1% (to 101 CLAMS) or down 2% (98 CLAMS). Is there a maximum drwaback over X-months, showing how much in % an investment in the house
went down??? 

Doog will periodically post some of the information you are looking for. From a recent post:

Dec 12 2014     0.00%   100.00%
Dec 15 2014     3.64%   103.64%
Dec 22 2014     5.02%   108.85%
Dec 29 2014     2.09%   111.13%
Jan  5 2015     8.16%   120.20%
Jan 12 2015     5.28%   126.55%
Jan 19 2015     3.55%   131.04%

Jan 20 2015     0.72%   131.99%

[dooglus]

I tried to look for some info that I couldn's find. Maybe someone here knows where to get it.
When I buy Apple stock I can see the daily +0.34% or -4% etc. When I look some further I can even see Apple up 20% in a couple of weeks etc.

When it come to Just-Dice I can see daily profit in CLAMS, but is there a graph anywhere showing how much an investment is up in % for a day? Say someone
invested 100 coins, are they up 1% (to 101 CLAMS) or down 2% (98 CLAMS). Is there a maximum drwaback over X-months, showing how much in % an investment in the house
went down??? 

Doog will periodically post some of the information you are looking for. From a recent post:

Dec 12 2014     0.00%   100.00%
Dec 15 2014     3.64%   103.64%
Dec 22 2014     5.02%   108.85%
Dec 29 2014     2.09%   111.13%
Jan  5 2015     8.16%   120.20%
Jan 12 2015     5.28%   126.55%
Jan 19 2015     3.55%   131.04%

Jan 20 2015     0.72%   131.99%

The main problem with publishing such numbers is that your results may vary. Since the introduction of "offsite investment" (search for it on the JD FAQ tab) it's possible for some investors to make a profit while others make a loss because of how the staking reward is shared out. Only coins that are physically on-site earn staking reward, whereas your entire on-site plus off-site coins get their share of player wins and losses. Investors who are entirely on-site will typically find that their share of the staking reward will offset any losses to winning players, whereas those with large off-site amounts won't.

Having said that, here's an updated version of the above data. It's for an investor with no offsite amount at all, and includes his staking rewards, and it after commission (except the last line, which is net of commission on staking for the current week, but hasn't yet paid commission on any profit from player losses this week):

Dec 12 2014     0.00%   100.00%
Dec 15 2014     3.64%   103.64%
Dec 22 2014     5.02%   108.85%
Dec 29 2014     2.09%   111.13%
Jan  5 2015     8.16%   120.20%
Jan 12 2015     5.28%   126.55%
Jan 19 2015     3.55%   131.04%
Jan 26 2015     2.10%   133.79%
Feb  2 2015     2.10%   136.60%

Feb  5 2015     1.01%   137.98%

[zeeman]

Thank you very much! Are there any plans on launching this website on Ethereum when it's launched? I think it would be a great (D)app, the Dice could be a calculation on a new block every 12 sec.

[picolo]

I tried to look for some info that I couldn's find. Maybe someone here knows where to get it.
When I buy Apple stock I can see the daily +0.34% or -4% etc. When I look some further I can even see Apple up 20% in a couple of weeks etc.

When it come to Just-Dice I can see daily profit in CLAMS, but is there a graph anywhere showing how much an investment is up in % for a day? Say someone
invested 100 coins, are they up 1% (to 101 CLAMS) or down 2% (98 CLAMS). Is there a maximum drwaback over X-months, showing how much in % an investment in the house
went down??? 

You have some informations under statistics on just-dice.

[cloverme]

The main problem with publishing such numbers is that your results may vary. Since the introduction of "offsite investment" (search for it on the JD FAQ tab) it's possible for some investors to make a profit while others make a loss because of how the staking reward is shared out. Only coins that are physically on-site earn staking reward, whereas your entire on-site plus off-site coins get their share of player wins and losses. Investors who are entirely on-site will typically find that their share of the staking reward will offset any losses to winning players, whereas those with large off-site amounts won't.

Having said that, here's an updated version of the above data. It's for an investor with no offsite amount at all, and includes his staking rewards, and it after commission (except the last line, which is net of commission on staking for the current week, but hasn't yet paid commission on any profit from player losses this week):

I know this is going to be like asking the fox about eggs in the hen-house, but I wanted to ask you anyway:

Do you think it's better to stake CLAMS in a personal wallet or do you think the return would be better by an invest in JD?

[dooglus]

I know this is going to be like asking the fox about eggs in the hen-house, but I wanted to ask you anyway:

Do you think it's better to stake CLAMS in a personal wallet or do you think the return would be better by an invest in JD?

CLAMs in JD seem to earn a little less than twice as much as CLAMs in a personal wallet, on average.

I would recommend putting 10% of your CLAMs on JD, 90% in a personal wallet, and using the /offsite command (see "offsite investing" in the JD FAQ tab) to tell the site that you also want to consider your other 90% invested.

That way you get the full benefit of being invested while you only risking have having 10% of your eggs eaten by the fox. You avoid paying commission on 90% of your staking rewards that way too.

[MICRO]

I know this is going to be like asking the fox about eggs in the hen-house, but I wanted to ask you anyway:

Do you think it's better to stake CLAMS in a personal wallet or do you think the return would be better by an invest in JD?

CLAMs in JD seem to earn a little less than twice as much as CLAMs in a personal wallet, on average.

I would recommend putting 10% of your CLAMs on JD, 90% in a personal wallet, and using the /offsite command (see "offsite investing" in the JD FAQ tab) to tell the site that you also want to consider your other 90% invested.

That way you get the full benefit of being invested while only risking have 10% of your eggs eaten by the fox. You avoid paying commission on 90% of your staking rewards that way too.

By personal wallet u mean CLAMs software wallet ?

I didnt rly get into clams as coins , didnt know i can stake them and earn that way.

I have all my clams invested into JD without offset and so far it made me 37 clams from about 100 which is not so bad .

[dooglus]

By personal wallet u mean CLAMs software wallet ?

I didnt rly get into clams as coins , didnt know i can stake them and earn that way.

I have all my clams invested into JD without offset and so far it made me 37 clams from about 100 which is not so bad .

All CLAMs are in the CLAM client software wallet. The question is whether to have yours in JD's copy of that wallet or in your own personal copy of the wallet.

I was suggesting that people keep most of their coins in their own local copy of the wallet so that they control their own private keys and get to keep 100% of the block reward for the blocks they stake locally. Send a small percentage to JD, invest it, and use the /offsite command to declare that you want the site to risk more of your coins, as if you had deposited your local coins as well.

I made an account on December 12th, invested some CLAM in it, and haven't touched it since. As of right now it has made 38.4% profit. So your 37 CLAM profit is entirely consistent with that. Everyone investing on December 12th and leaving their investment alone will have made the same return.

[ranlo]

By personal wallet u mean CLAMs software wallet ?

I didnt rly get into clams as coins , didnt know i can stake them and earn that way.

I have all my clams invested into JD without offset and so far it made me 37 clams from about 100 which is not so bad .

All CLAMs are in the CLAM client software wallet. The question is whether to have yours in JD's copy of that wallet or in your own personal copy of the wallet.

I was suggesting that people keep most of their coins in their own local copy of the wallet so that they control their own private keys and get to keep 100% of the block reward for the blocks they stake locally. Send a small percentage to JD, invest it, and use the /offsite command to declare that you want the site to risk more of your coins, as if you had deposited your local coins as well.

I made an account on December 12th, invested some CLAM in it, and haven't touched it since. As of right now it has made 38.4% profit. So your 37 CLAM profit is entirely consistent with that. Everyone investing on December 12th and leaving their investment alone will have made the same return.

Can you do another test with 1 CLAM in an account at 100x and see what the results are? Basically plot them side-by-side (1x vs 100x).

[MICRO]

By personal wallet u mean CLAMs software wallet ?

I didnt rly get into clams as coins , didnt know i can stake them and earn that way.

I have all my clams invested into JD without offset and so far it made me 37 clams from about 100 which is not so bad .

All CLAMs are in the CLAM client software wallet. The question is whether to have yours in JD's copy of that wallet or in your own personal copy of the wallet.

I was suggesting that people keep most of their coins in their own local copy of the wallet so that they control their own private keys and get to keep 100% of the block reward for the blocks they stake locally. Send a small percentage to JD, invest it, and use the /offsite command to declare that you want the site to risk more of your coins, as if you had deposited your local coins as well.

I made an account on December 12th, invested some CLAM in it, and haven't touched it since. As of right now it has made 38.4% profit. So your 37 CLAM profit is entirely consistent with that. Everyone investing on December 12th and leaving their investment alone will have made the same return.

Yeah i invested couple of days after jd reopened.

I will probably just keep it this way since im pretty happy with it, till clam is at 0.009 or so and then i will just sell all to get nice profit.

[galbros]

I know this is going to be like asking the fox about eggs in the hen-house, but I wanted to ask you anyway:

Do you think it's better to stake CLAMS in a personal wallet or do you think the return would be better by an invest in JD?

CLAMs in JD seem to earn a little less than twice as much as CLAMs in a personal wallet, on average.

I would recommend putting 10% of your CLAMs on JD, 90% in a personal wallet, and using the /offsite command (see "offsite investing" in the JD FAQ tab) to tell the site that you also want to consider your other 90% invested.

That way you get the full benefit of being invested while only risking have 10% of your eggs eaten by the fox. You avoid paying commission on 90% of your staking rewards that way too.

I don't understand your advice here dooglus.  If CLAMS in the JD wallet earn almost twice as much as CLAMS in a personal wallet a user would come out way ahead staking with you even after paying your 10% commission.

I agree they run the risk of having the fox eat their eggs, but if the fox was not inclined to feast on millions of dollars of bitcoin, I don't see him being too tempted by 400,000 USD of CLAM.

Am I missing something?

Thanks for a great site!

[unamis76]

Not really getting the offsite investment option. Is it just basically a way to increase risk/benefit?

[chriswen]

I know this is going to be like asking the fox about eggs in the hen-house, but I wanted to ask you anyway:

Do you think it's better to stake CLAMS in a personal wallet or do you think the return would be better by an invest in JD?

CLAMs in JD seem to earn a little less than twice as much as CLAMs in a personal wallet, on average.

I would recommend putting 10% of your CLAMs on JD, 90% in a personal wallet, and using the /offsite command (see "offsite investing" in the JD FAQ tab) to tell the site that you also want to consider your other 90% invested.

That way you get the full benefit of being invested while only risking have 10% of your eggs eaten by the fox. You avoid paying commission on 90% of your staking rewards that way too.

I don't understand your advice here dooglus.  If CLAMS in the JD wallet earn almost twice as much as CLAMS in a personal wallet a user would come out way ahead staking with you even after paying your 10% commission.

I agree they run the risk of having the fox eat their eggs, but if the fox was not inclined to feast on millions of dollars of bitcoin, I don't see him being too tempted by 400,000 USD of CLAM.

Am I missing something?

Thanks for a great site!

It might be a slight exaggeration.  I think it's more like 1.5x

[galbros]

Not really getting the offsite investment option. Is it just basically a way to increase risk/benefit?

Exactly, you can set it to whatever you want up to x100.  The average right now is around 40.  Note that most people don't actually have the coins offsite, (in fact, at the time of writing, the investors claim more CLAMS than can exist) they just want bigger returns from winning.  Note that losses will be bigger too if betters get lucky.  So far, betters have not done so well....

Good Luck.

chriswen even at x1.5 still better off staking on site.

[dooglus]

I don't understand your advice here dooglus.  If CLAMS in the JD wallet earn almost twice as much as CLAMS in a personal wallet a user would come out way ahead staking with you even after paying your 10% commission.

I agree they run the risk of having the fox eat their eggs, but if the fox was not inclined to feast on millions of dollars of bitcoin, I don't see him being too tempted by 400,000 USD of CLAM.

Am I missing something?

When I say that CLAMs in JD earn roughly twice as much as coins in a local wallet, I mean that the earnings from players losing are roughly equal to the earnings from staking. In fact we've staked 65k and won 46k, so chriswen is closer to the truth. It's more like 1.5x than 2x.

However, by using the /offsite command, you can tell JD that you want to have it consider your local coins as part of the bankroll too. That way you get the benefit of having them onsite without the risk of theft or other mishap.

Of course, if you're already using the maximum 100x multiplier this advice isn't of any use.

[dooglus]

chriswen even at x1.5 still better off staking on site.

OK, so suppose you have 1000 CLAMs.

You could:
a) deposit them all on JD and invest them
b) deposit 100 of them on JD, invest them, tell the site "/offsite 900", and stake the other 900 locally

In both cases your effective investment is the same. You get the same share of the profits and losses that players make.

In the first case you're paying 10% commission on the staking rewards for your full 1000 CLAM.

In the second case you're only paying 10% commission on the staking rewards from the 100 coins on the site. You get the full 100% of the rewards from the other 900 CLAM. You're paying 10 times less commission on your staking rewards.

So the second case saves you some commission, and largely reduces your counterparty risk.

Alternatively, you could:
c) deposit all the coins, and "/offsite 99000".

Your risk per roll is 100 times higher than before. You stand to win or lose much more. If someone wins the maximum profit just twice you go bust.

[galbros]

When I say that CLAMs in JD earn roughly twice as much as coins in a local wallet, I mean that the earnings from players losing are roughly equal to the earnings from staking. In fact we've staked 65k and won 46k, so chriswen is closer to the truth. It's more like 1.5x than 2x.

Okay, thanks for explaining.  I was misinterpreting the initial question.  It seemed to be about staking, is there any advantage to staking with JD given that you have 70% or so of all dug CLAMS are on site?  Granted you can't stake and not invest, but that was what confused me.  So by staking with JD you reduce your expected value due to the commission but lower your variance on staking returns due to it effectively serving as a staking pool.

Thanks again.

[dooglus]

Okay, thanks for explaining.  I was misinterpreting the initial question.  It seemed to be about staking, is there any advantage to staking with JD given that you have 70% or so of all dug CLAMS are on site?

Actually there is. JD blocks get orphaned less than other blocks, because we're the one staking most of the blocks, so we're the ones doing most of the orphaning, and we never orphan our own blocks.

I'm not sure how much of an advantage that works out as, or whether it overcomes the 10% commission fee.

[ranlo]

Okay, thanks for explaining.  I was misinterpreting the initial question.  It seemed to be about staking, is there any advantage to staking with JD given that you have 70% or so of all dug CLAMS are on site?

Actually there is. JD blocks get orphaned less than other blocks, because we're the one staking most of the blocks, so we're the ones doing most of the orphaning, and we never orphan our own blocks.

I'm not sure how much of an advantage that works out as, or whether it overcomes the 10% commission fee.

I would say that most likely, it would be better to stake solo instead, with the difference being that you're facing more variance that way. Pretty much it's like solo mining BTC vs joining a pool.