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Author Topic: Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest  (Read 454549 times)
mailmansDOGE
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February 08, 2015, 06:25:52 AM
 #3781

i was just wondering that how many coins does jd stake/day?
On the clam network is there anyone else that stakes clams?
i sometimes feel that its just jd who can stake clams.
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dooglus (OP)
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February 08, 2015, 07:55:14 AM
 #3782

i was just wondering that how many coins does jd stake/day?

About 1100. See https://just-dice.com/wagered.txt for the actual numbers.

On the clam network is there anyone else that stakes clams?

Yes. Something like 1440 blocks are staked per day.

i sometimes feel that its just jd who can stake clams.

I'm not sure what to do about that.

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February 08, 2015, 11:21:57 AM
 #3783

i was just wondering that how many coins does jd stake/day?

About 1100. See https://just-dice.com/wagered.txt for the actual numbers.

On the clam network is there anyone else that stakes clams?

Yes. Something like 1440 blocks are staked per day.

i sometimes feel that its just jd who can stake clams.

I'm not sure what to do about that.

Profit is table at 47 125 so the investors mostly gain from the stacking these days.
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February 10, 2015, 11:29:32 AM
 #3784

I just clicked the randomize button for the first time since site switched to clam

It's strange that my first bet started at the 2nd nounce.

http://imgur.com/a/CS660

So I made some more bets and clicked the randomize one more time, then it started at the 1st nounce as what it should be
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February 10, 2015, 07:14:45 PM
 #3785

I just clicked the randomize button for the first time since site switched to clam

It's strange that my first bet started at the 2nd nounce.

http://imgur.com/a/CS660

So I made some more bets and clicked the randomize one more time, then it started at the 1st nounce as what it should be

What happened to the bet id's? also all your image shows is that you did not screenshot the bet with nonce #1

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February 10, 2015, 07:38:07 PM
Last edit: February 10, 2015, 11:27:05 PM by dooglus
 #3786

I just clicked the randomize button for the first time since site switched to clam

It's strange that my first bet started at the 2nd nounce.

http://imgur.com/a/CS660

So I made some more bets and clicked the randomize one more time, then it started at the 1st nounce as what it should be

We recently hired a new employee, told him we would pay him a share of the profits, and immediately gave him commit access to the source code... Wink

Just kidding.

I didn't reset seeds when launching for CLAM. You have the same client and server seed as you had before. Your rolls carried on exactly where you left off with BTC. Your last bet for BTC had nonce 1, so your first bet for CLAM had nonce 2.

There's only one user whose seeds I did randomize before launching for CLAM, and that's because I told him how long his current losing streak would have ended up being. He could have used that information to win huge bets, and so I reset his seeds.

I'm searching old JD logs to try to find your last bet there, but it's taking too long, so I'll just post this for now and update later with details.

Edit: I found it. You only made one bet on JD on that account:

Quote
2013-09-23 00:49:55 bet #136404735: 40 BTC  @ 98%   hi: lucky:388747 profit:0.40816320 n:1
2014-12-12 06:00:43 bet #xxxxxx:    17 CLAM @ 96.5% hi: lucky:883579 profit:0.44041458 n:2

So that's where the nonce=1 bet rolling 38.8747 happened...

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February 10, 2015, 07:56:17 PM
 #3787

Profits steady at 47 000 CLAM Wink
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February 10, 2015, 11:10:05 PM
 #3788

There's only one user whose seeds I did randomize before launching for CLAM, and that's because I told him how long his current losing streak would have ended up being. He could have used that information to win huge bets, and so I reset his seeds.

You're actually able to see this? I thought it was all randomized.

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February 10, 2015, 11:34:53 PM
 #3789

Profits steady at 47 000 CLAM Wink

Got to keep clamming and staking on  Grin
Also its nice to have a steady profit

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February 10, 2015, 11:43:30 PM
Last edit: February 11, 2015, 12:47:19 AM by dooglus
 #3790

There's only one user whose seeds I did randomize before launching for CLAM, and that's because I told him how long his current losing streak would have ended up being. He could have used that information to win huge bets, and so I reset his seeds.

You're actually able to see this? I thought it was all randomized.

It's like this:

1) the server picks a random "server seed" for your account
2) the server tells you the hash of the server seed, and you make a note of it
3) you pick a "client seed"
4) you make a bunch of bets - each roll is the result of hashing the two seeds (server and client) together with a nonce which is 1 for the first bet you make, and goes up by 1 for each subsequent bet you make
5) you click 'randomize'; the server publishes your server seed
6) go to 1

a) You then compare the hash of the server seed from (5) with the hash given in (2) to make sure that the seed you were given after you played matches the hash you were given before you played. That proves to you that the site committed to a particular server seed before you picked your client seed.

b) Then you use the server seed (5) and the client seed (3) to regenerate all the rolls you made. You can compare them with the rolls the site actually gave you.

Since the site provably picked the server seed before you played and before you told it your client seed (a), and since the site used those two seeds to generate all your rolls (b), there's no way the site could have cheated you.

So in a sense the rolls are random, since they depend on the server seed, which is random.

But in another sense the rolls are predetermined once you've picked your client seed, since the pair of seeds uniquely and completely determines all your future rolls.

Since you pick the client seed *after* we pick the server seed, we can't pick what numbers you are going to roll. The client seed has the final say on that, and that's entirely your decision.

If each roll was truly random, there would be no way for you to check whether the site was cheating. You play "less than 98", we pick "99". You lose. Did we cheat? We went to random.org and it told us 99. Honest! There's no way you can be sure we went to random.org and didn't just pick a number bigger than 98 to make you lose. So that's why we do it how we do - so that there's no way we can cheat the players.

On the other hand, we *can* cheat the investors. I can see what my next roll is going to be (it's 98.3610), and so I can be sure of winning it if I want to. That's the same with any provably fair site - you have to trust that the operator isn't going to play with knowledge of his upcoming rolls.

Here are the first 3 rolls I made with my current seed pair:



and here's my "prediction" of the 4th roll:



This is why, if I'm going to play against the investors for more than small amounts, I go to great lengths to prove that it's legit. For example:
  http://www.reddit.com/r/justdice/comments/1vbo1p/justdice_owner_plays_his_own_game_and_wins/

Edit: I made that 4th roll:


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February 11, 2015, 12:17:05 AM
 #3791

Profits steady at 47 000 CLAM Wink

Here's the 10 days or so:


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ranlo
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February 11, 2015, 01:00:55 AM
 #3792

There's only one user whose seeds I did randomize before launching for CLAM, and that's because I told him how long his current losing streak would have ended up being. He could have used that information to win huge bets, and so I reset his seeds.

You're actually able to see this? I thought it was all randomized.

It's like this:

1) the server picks a random "server seed" for your account
2) the server tells you the hash of the server seed, and you make a note of it
3) you pick a "client seed"
4) you make a bunch of bets - each roll is the result of hashing the two seeds (server and client) together with a nonce which is 1 for the first bet you make, and goes up by 1 for each subsequent bet you make
5) you click 'randomize'; the server publishes your server seed
6) go to 1

a) You then compare the hash of the server seed from (5) with the hash given in (2) to make sure that the seed you were given after you played matches the hash you were given before you played. That proves to you that the site committed to a particular server seed before you picked your client seed.

b) Then you use the server seed (5) and the client seed (3) to regenerate all the rolls you made. You can compare them with the rolls the site actually gave you.

Since the site provably picked the server seed before you played and before you told it your client seed (a), and since the site used those two seeds to generate all your rolls (b), there's no way the site could have cheated you.

So in a sense the rolls are random, since they depend on the server seed, which is random.

But in another sense the rolls are predetermined once you've picked your client seed, since the pair of seeds uniquely and completely determines all your future rolls.

Since you pick the client seed *after* we pick the server seed, we can't pick what numbers you are going to roll. The client seed has the final say on that, and that's entirely your decision.

If each roll was truly random, there would be no way for you to check whether the site was cheating. You play "less than 98", we pick "99". You lose. Did we cheat? We went to random.org and it told us 99. Honest! There's no way you can be sure we went to random.org and didn't just pick a number bigger than 98 to make you lose. So that's why we do it how we do - so that there's no way we can cheat the players.

On the other hand, we *can* cheat the investors. I can see what my next roll is going to be (it's 98.3610), and so I can be sure of winning it if I want to. That's the same with any provably fair site - you have to trust that the operator isn't going to play with knowledge of his upcoming rolls.

Here are the first 3 rolls I made with my current seed pair:



and here's my "prediction" of the 4th roll:



This is why, if I'm going to play against the investors for more than small amounts, I go to great lengths to prove that it's legit. For example:
  http://www.reddit.com/r/justdice/comments/1vbo1p/justdice_owner_plays_his_own_game_and_wins/

Edit: I made that 4th roll:



Great explanation! Doesn't this also open the server to potential exploits, though, in that someone else could gain access to the same information?

https://nanogames.io/i-bctalk-n/
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February 11, 2015, 01:15:20 AM
 #3793

Great explanation! Doesn't this also open the server to potential exploits, though, in that someone else could gain access to the same information?

Yes. If you can discover your server seed you can win the whole bankroll.

You would need to be careful to not make it look too obvious.

This apparently happened not so long ago at Prime Dice, where a player called "Hufflepuff" was able to somehow discover their server seed and then proceeded to win and withdraw some large number (4000?) of Bitcoins. He was careful to hit losing streaks as well as winning ones, but the winning streaks always ended up being bigger. I think the who thing took a few weeks to play out.

Shortly after that another player, called something like RobbingHood won over 100 large bets in a row at 49.5%. I guess this was the same person. He wasn't able to withdraw much of his winnings before the account was banned.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208986.msg9576925#msg9576925
http://www.reddit.com/r/Primedice/comments/2mmg69/

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romerun
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February 11, 2015, 05:22:25 AM
 #3794

Ah, that explained it, thanks !
arallmuus
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February 11, 2015, 05:55:52 AM
 #3795

Great explanation! Doesn't this also open the server to potential exploits, though, in that someone else could gain access to the same information?

Yes. If you can discover your server seed you can win the whole bankroll.

You would need to be careful to not make it look too obvious.

This apparently happened not so long ago at Prime Dice, where a player called "Hufflepuff" was able to somehow discover their server seed and then proceeded to win and withdraw some large number (4000?) of Bitcoins. He was careful to hit losing streaks as well as winning ones, but the winning streaks always ended up being bigger. I think the who thing took a few weeks to play out.

Shortly after that another player, called something like RobbingHood won over 100 large bets in a row at 49.5%. I guess this was the same person. He wasn't able to withdraw much of his winnings before the account was banned.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208986.msg9576925#msg9576925
http://www.reddit.com/r/Primedice/comments/2mmg69/

ahh thats finally explains the magic of that hupplepuff, so is it or is it not againts the rules that if we somehow discover the server seed and use it to win the game?

R


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February 11, 2015, 06:23:58 AM
 #3796

Great explanation! Doesn't this also open the server to potential exploits, though, in that someone else could gain access to the same information?

Yes. If you can discover your server seed you can win the whole bankroll.

You would need to be careful to not make it look too obvious.

This apparently happened not so long ago at Prime Dice, where a player called "Hufflepuff" was able to somehow discover their server seed and then proceeded to win and withdraw some large number (4000?) of Bitcoins. He was careful to hit losing streaks as well as winning ones, but the winning streaks always ended up being bigger. I think the who thing took a few weeks to play out.

Shortly after that another player, called something like RobbingHood won over 100 large bets in a row at 49.5%. I guess this was the same person. He wasn't able to withdraw much of his winnings before the account was banned.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208986.msg9576925#msg9576925
http://www.reddit.com/r/Primedice/comments/2mmg69/

ahh thats finally explains the magic of that hupplepuff, so is it or is it not againts the rules that if we somehow discover the server seed and use it to win the game?

That'd be an exploit. I'm sure Dooglus analyzes the records as well before paying out huge wins, and probably does it proactively regardless.

https://nanogames.io/i-bctalk-n/
Message for info on how to get kickbacks on sites like Nano (above) and CryptoPlay!
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February 11, 2015, 06:50:39 AM
 #3797

ahh thats finally explains the magic of that hupplepuff, so is it or is it not againts the rules that if we somehow discover the server seed and use it to win the game?

If I can be sure that you cheated to win then I won't let you withdraw your ill-gotten winnings. But it's pretty much impossible to be sure. People often have very lucky runs, and I won't ever use that as an excuse to withhold winnings.

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WEBcreator
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February 11, 2015, 07:52:17 AM
 #3798

ahh thats finally explains the magic of that hupplepuff, so is it or is it not againts the rules that if we somehow discover the server seed and use it to win the game?

If I can be sure that you cheated to win then I won't let you withdraw your ill-gotten winnings. But it's pretty much impossible to be sure. People often have very lucky runs, and I won't ever use that as an excuse to withhold winnings.

or the one with the exploit could be clever enough by intentioning to lose some high amount while trying to strive for great profit

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picolo
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February 11, 2015, 11:47:08 AM
 #3799

Great explanation! Doesn't this also open the server to potential exploits, though, in that someone else could gain access to the same information?

Yes. If you can discover your server seed you can win the whole bankroll.

You would need to be careful to not make it look too obvious.

This apparently happened not so long ago at Prime Dice, where a player called "Hufflepuff" was able to somehow discover their server seed and then proceeded to win and withdraw some large number (4000?) of Bitcoins. He was careful to hit losing streaks as well as winning ones, but the winning streaks always ended up being bigger. I think the who thing took a few weeks to play out.

Shortly after that another player, called something like RobbingHood won over 100 large bets in a row at 49.5%. I guess this was the same person. He wasn't able to withdraw much of his winnings before the account was banned.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208986.msg9576925#msg9576925
http://www.reddit.com/r/Primedice/comments/2mmg69/

3000 or 4000 win for Hufflepuff but maybe much more with other accounts.
RobbingHood made it obvious by winning 100 large bets in a row!
erwin45hacked
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February 11, 2015, 07:07:57 PM
 #3800

Great explanation! Doesn't this also open the server to potential exploits, though, in that someone else could gain access to the same information?

Yes. If you can discover your server seed you can win the whole bankroll.

You would need to be careful to not make it look too obvious.

This apparently happened not so long ago at Prime Dice, where a player called "Hufflepuff" was able to somehow discover their server seed and then proceeded to win and withdraw some large number (4000?) of Bitcoins. He was careful to hit losing streaks as well as winning ones, but the winning streaks always ended up being bigger. I think the who thing took a few weeks to play out.

Shortly after that another player, called something like RobbingHood won over 100 large bets in a row at 49.5%. I guess this was the same person. He wasn't able to withdraw much of his winnings before the account was banned.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208986.msg9576925#msg9576925
http://www.reddit.com/r/Primedice/comments/2mmg69/

3000 or 4000 win for Hufflepuff but maybe much more with other accounts.
RobbingHood made it obvious by winning 100 large bets in a row!

well hufflepuff could be playing atm with another account, cashing up 1-2 bitcoins a day , who knows what that guy might be doing now anyway
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