Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game

[zipmaster]

I am wondering if someone can help me make sense of the algorithm used to constuct a given roll.
For definiteness, lets' use the following bet: https://just-dice.com/roll/307724627

I initially construct the two strings:

s1 = 1496:'server seed':1496
s2 = 1496:'client seed':1496

The instructions then become ambiguous because it is not clear how these two strings should be concatenated before hashing with the SHA-512 function. I've tried a couple combinations and none give me the desired roll (once I take the first 5 characters from the hashed value and convert them to an integer).

Someone in the chat room suggested:

1496:'server seed'-'client seed':1496

But this didn't work either. Anybody have a clue?

[1714629641]

1714629641

[1714629641]

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[bitfromit]

Rookie question that is probably one of the stupidest of the day.

I am a current investor in the bank, I would love to invest more but there I am scared to increase my investment.

Simply put: What makes Just-Dice a safe place to store Bitcoins?

More possibly unnecessary details:
I understand as the bank, the risk I can loose Bitcoins or make Bitcoins but assuming a long term commitment and a 1% house edge that is not a concern.
1) What will stop the site owners from running off with the Bitcoins?
2) What will stop the site from getting hacked or depositing Bitcoins in a site\server that gets hacked.
3) What will stop a government from shutting down the website and seizing all assets as it is a (presumably) unregulated gambling site?
4) Are there any other reliable, trustworthy gambling sites (pref not another dice site) out there that let you make money from the bank and have enough customers to make it a real proposition? I have seen Ice-Dice and bitcoinsports.eu but my gut instict has suggested I should not invest in either.

I am not saying 1 & 2 are likely (Doog seems like a really great guy on the forums, I made a gut investment and whilst I trust my gut I did loose Bitcoins when Bitmarket.eu went down) but... the history of Bitcoin investments and online wallets suggests that for ever 1 legit investment there are 3 to 5 that disappear owing Bitcoins, possibly after partially refunding, possibly after no refunds at all.

1) Nothing.
2) Nothing.
3) Nothing.
4) I don't know. Check out the "Securities" and "Gambling" boards for more info.

1) Have a look at the Coinlenders / inputs story if you want to see a recent example.

[Jennifer Smith]

I am wondering if someone can help me make sense of the algorithm used to constuct a given roll.
For definiteness, lets' use the following bet: https://just-dice.com/roll/307724627

I initially construct the two strings:

s1 = 1496:'server seed':1496
s2 = 1496:'client seed':1496

The instructions then become ambiguous because it is not clear how these two strings should be concatenated before hashing with the SHA-512 function. I've tried a couple combinations and none give me the desired roll (once I take the first 5 characters from the hashed value and convert them to an integer).

Someone in the chat room suggested:

1496:'server seed'-'client seed':1496

But this didn't work either. Anybody have a clue?

It is str = nonce:client_seed:nonce. Use hmac512(str, key), where key is the server string.

You must use a HMAC (SHA-512). The lucky number is derived from a message authentication code, not the standalone SHA-512 algorithm.

[nimda]

I am wondering if someone can help me make sense of the algorithm used to constuct a given roll.
For definiteness, lets' use the following bet: https://just-dice.com/roll/307724627

I initially construct the two strings:

s1 = 1496:'server seed':1496
s2 = 1496:'client seed':1496

The instructions then become ambiguous because it is not clear how these two strings should be concatenated before hashing with the SHA-512 function. I've tried a couple combinations and none give me the desired roll (once I take the first 5 characters from the hashed value and convert them to an integer).

Someone in the chat room suggested:

1496:'server seed'-'client seed':1496

But this didn't work either. Anybody have a clue?

Just look at the source for one of the verifiers.
http://jsfiddle.net/Zq8tL/82/
bitcoinmaniac.com/justdice/

[JTrain_51]

This is by far the best dice gambling site

Reasons :

- Chat is active and full of good people
- Dooglus is a great guy and always helpful
- Its fair and so easy to use
- SO MANY MORE.....

The only thing I would change is if they have more promotional offers like the signatures and contest etc....

[dooglus]

I am wondering if someone can help me make sense of the algorithm used to constuct a given roll.
For definiteness, lets' use the following bet: https://just-dice.com/roll/307724627

Here's some simple Python code that gets the rolled number for that roll:

Code:

>>> import hmac, hashlib
>>> nonce, sseed, cseed = '1469', 'LNP8EgmKPBXbU4iUOjDDw6VXTniv._dtdcDmTa20JhSDD_7qMkUpwNLy9Fw7iRy9', '227300137125745119738409'
>>> int(hmac.new(nonce+':'+sseed+':'+nonce, nonce+':'+cseed+':'+nonce, hashlib.sha512).hexdigest()[:5], 16)
256469

Hopefully that makes it explicit enough for you.

Can you suggest how the 'Fair?' tab can be improved to remove any ambiguity please?

I added this text:

"hmac-sha512(key=nonce:sseed:nonce, message=nonce:cseed:nonce)"

in case it wasn't clear that the server seed was the key and the client seed was the message.  But it seems you didn't understand that we're using hmac-sha512, not just sha512.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash-based_message_authentication_code .

[dooglus]

Just look at the source for one of the verifiers.
http://jsfiddle.net/Zq8tL/82/
bitcoinmaniac.com/justdice/

Please don't link to the jsfiddle verifiers - as I understand it those are verifying using the old (pre 145 million rolls) algorithm.

Some guy is threatening to sue JD after losing a bunch on a martingale sequence, and claims that he wouldn't have played if he knew the roll algorithm had changed...  He has hit 'randomize' multiple times since it changed, so it's not like the change could possibly have changed his chance of winning, but I'd still rather avoid issues like that.

[zipmaster]

Thank you very much Doog! The python code really cleared it up for me.

[nimda]

Just look at the source for one of the verifiers.
http://jsfiddle.net/Zq8tL/82/
bitcoinmaniac.com/justdice/

Please don't link to the jsfiddle verifiers - as I understand it those are verifying using the old (pre 145 million rolls) algorithm.

Some guy is threatening to sue JD after losing a bunch on a martingale sequence, and claims that he wouldn't have played if he knew the roll algorithm had changed...  He has hit 'randomize' multiple times since it changed, so it's not like the change could possibly have changed his chance of winning, but I'd still rather avoid issues like that.

Was there any forum discussion about the change; if so would you please link me to it?

[dooglus]

Was there any forum discussion about the change; if so would you please link me to it?

There was.

I found this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=242962.msg3266618#msg3266618

There was probably more.  Are you looking for all of it, or simply proof of existence?

[nimda]

Was there any forum discussion about the change; if so would you please link me to it?

There was.

I found this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=242962.msg3266618#msg3266618

There was probably more.  Are you looking for all of it, or simply proof of existence?

Just a starting point, thanks.

Edit: it was pointed out in chat that this change is pointless

I was going to point that out, or take special interest in your newfound HMAC-SHA512 vulnerability.

[tkone]

hello, my name on jd is elozor,
i had a little problem yesterday,
i put in about 37 coins, and was up at 72 coins,
i was trying to withdraw, but because of the 4confirmation limit it was not allowing me, so i tried to withdraw several more times but it still did not allow me, i was watching blockchain.info and the confirmations, for some reason no matter what the withdrawl limit was still there,

i thought to bet a tiny bit more and wait for it to work, and in a matter of a ffew secounds i lost my whole 72coins,
this was all my savings, i live with family, i work hard 60+ hours a week, i was a ex addict but been clean for so many months now,i dont go out i don't spend any money i save every money and was investing in bitcoin, i never really bet big only tiny amounts as you can see in my history,

i dont know what else to do, i ask dog and deb and they said they coulndt do anything its because the investors money,

im blaiming on the withdrawal system i think there might of been an error there, i wait for the confirmations and it still didnlt let me withdraw mayb i had to wait for 1 more confirm, but so i thought just to ben tiny whilei wait, and i lost everything,

is tehre anyone that can help me, i promise to never gamble again, and in your merit i will continue to stay off drugs study, work hard, and try to bring light into the world,

please arouse your mercy to help me out, i have proof of everything and the jd sites should have proof that i tried to withdraw several times...

what else am i to do at this moment? i have nothing now, and to save up for anohter 72 coins it would take me years and by then they would cost too much more for me to save up more.

please if anyone can be mercifull and help me out or send me in the right directions, dog/deb told me to post here.

thanks in advance.
best

[tkone]

TKone - Really?

I will equate this to a normal live casino.  There are lines to cashout your chips so if you have to wait to cash out your $75k USD you do no matter how long it takes you.  You aren't going to get bored standing in line and say I will go play a little more are you?

You lost 72 coins, you could have got up from the computer for a hour and come back and withdrawal if their was issues You choose not too. This is a new learning experience again with online gaming, as an ex addict go back to a AA/ GA meeting now and discuss it.

You probably won't be able to get back your coins as they appreciate but in some ways BTC is a gamble in itself.  If you get more BTC stay away from gambling.

ye but i didnt know it would be 4 confirmations, and i think 4cofirmations already passed maybe there was a mistake?
ususally i wait 1-2 confirmations not 4?!
i wasnt a awre it was a first and last time mistake why i cant just be recovered for not knowing and form now on ill know...

[autotoss]

What no one else wanted write an article about Singapore ban? Can we organize crowdfunding? Can someone donate me 0.05 btc on 1F1MzPZBztSe7bSXwDiH2WDYxSf2wWAmuo for this article or any other amount for support my blog about a Just-Dice value for players?

created an article about Singapore ban

[blockage]

TKone - Really?

I will equate this to a normal live casino.  There are lines to cashout your chips so if you have to wait to cash out your $75k USD you do no matter how long it takes you.  You aren't going to get bored standing in line and say I will go play a little more are you?

You lost 72 coins, you could have got up from the computer for a hour and come back and withdrawal if their was issues You choose not too. This is a new learning experience again with online gaming, as an ex addict go back to a AA/ GA meeting now and discuss it.

You probably won't be able to get back your coins as they appreciate but in some ways BTC is a gamble in itself.  If you get more BTC stay away from gambling.

ye but i didnt know it would be 4 confirmations, and i think 4cofirmations already passed maybe there was a mistake?
ususally i wait 1-2 confirmations not 4?!
i wasnt a awre it was a first and last time mistake why i cant just be recovered for not knowing and form now on ill know...

I don't think there was a problem with the withdrawal system. When you played the network took about 1h for a block and subsequently 22m. And you played for a very long time, if you tried to withdraw within the 1h window you should've been able to withdraw around 9:40pm EST, but you played until 10:20pm EST.

i never really bet big only tiny amounts as you can see in my history,

Judging by the numbers you started with an initial bet of 0.0001 at 25% and doubled-up. You had some very high bets in between and yet you didn't change your initial bet. That loss streak of 19 bets that you hit is quite common for 25% I'd say.

[solomon]

Why did you deposit your life savings onto a gambling site? That isn't arousing my mercy

[dooglus]

I don't think there was a problem with the withdrawal system. When you played the network took about 1h for a block and subsequently 22m. And you played for a very long time, if you tried to withdraw within the 1h window you should've been able to withdraw around 9:40pm EST, but you played until 10:20pm EST.

Here's how I replied when he asked whether there was a problem with the withdraw system:

You deposited 37 BTC in block 272219:

* 7 BTC in tx 73a7bc482945c4c4893f500afa7f5fbf00eacc0ddaf829c3b9f818699fb4c06d and
* 30 BTC in tx 5bee19420709eef02ea43e427756eea732df37b83aab5ef87aa3c90b3a6ceb77

According to blockchain.info, they saw the blocks at these times:

#272219 2013-11-30 02:51:50
#272220 2013-11-30 02:52:31
#272221 2013-11-30 03:54:04
#272222 2013-11-30 04:07:45
#272223 2013-11-30 04:19:14

You tried to withdraw 3 times, at these times:

* 2013-11-30 02:59:49 requiring 4 confirmations to withdraw 46.45761505 BTC
* 2013-11-30 03:08:42 requiring 4 confirmations to withdraw 46.45761505 BTC
* 2013-11-30 03:14:11 requiring 4 confirmations to withdraw 59.65071166 BTC

All three attempts were during an hour-long gap between blocks #272220 and #272221, which meant your deposit had only 1 confirmation.

Your last few bets were timestamped like this:

2013-11-30 03:19:51 bet #307406039: 1.6384 BTC @ 25% hi: lucky:287118 profit:-1.63840000
2013-11-30 03:19:53 bet #307406140: 3.2768 BTC @ 25% hi: lucky:6724 profit:-3.27680000
2013-11-30 03:19:54 bet #307406232: 6.5536 BTC @ 25% hi: lucky:460658 profit:-6.55360000
2013-11-30 03:19:56 bet #307406340: 13.1072 BTC @ 25% hi: lucky:647457 profit:-13.10720000
2013-11-30 03:19:59 bet #307406516: 26.2144 BTC @ 25% hi: lucky:590157 profit:-26.21440000
2013-11-30 03:20:02 bet #307406648: 7.22840766 BTC @ 25% hi: lucky:882373 profit:21.39608667
2013-11-30 03:20:18 bet #307407522: 28.62449433 BTC @ 69% hi: lucky:303972 profit:-28.62449433

I just noticed that I made an error - the deposit will have had 2 confirmations, not 1 as I wrote in the bold text in the quote above.

[Lohoris]

Why did you deposit your life savings onto a gambling site? That isn't arousing my mercy

+1

Too many random beggars, not enough truth.

I reiterate what I said earlier: if they won, they wouldn't give it back.

[mechs]

For anyone interested, I am auctioning off my Just-Dice investment account with 479 BTC of available commission-exempt investment gains.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355604.new#new

[bittymitty]

 -329  sucks to be you.