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[ICantThinkOfaName]

Orbit that is the method I was looking into, I'm still verifying the legality of that before implementing it.

Vitruvio, I can't have an escrow wallet involved or it makes LRM a money transmitter.

Can you quote the Orbit post you're referring to?

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[Lab_Rat]

Orbit that is the method I was looking into, I'm still verifying the legality of that before implementing it.

Vitruvio, I can't have an escrow wallet involved or it makes LRM a money transmitter.

Can you quote the Orbit post you're referring to?

edited

[vitruvio]

A simple automated script, hosted with LR's website could be made that isn't terribly complicated. One possible algorithm is to do this:

1. Website server receives seller messages from LR webpage (basic input text boxes that get submitted to server side script).
2. Script verifies messages from seller.
3. If verified, script verifies seller actually has bonds and sufficient quantity per some official copy of the ledger.
4. If verified, website market page is updated to reflect sellers quantity and ask price for market to see. *
5. Buyer see's price and clicks seller price. Immediately, that sell order is removed from the cue to avoid duplicate orders. Anyone subsequently clicking with a then stale webpage will simply get no record found.
6. Buyer is presented input options and submits message to purchase (including wallet address which the verified message depends upon - that is his account number - and also an optional wallet address for receiving dividends).
7. Script verifies buyer sent sufficient btc as per the blockchain (within say 1 hours and maybe at least 3 confirmations). If not received, then there is a problem on how to clear this...this could cause problems.
8. If verified, deduct quantity from seller account and add to buyers account (if that account already exists) on bond ledger. If buyers account does not yet exist, create one now and add to ledger with bought quantity.

* A couple other aspects need to be included. Such as allowing seller to cancel order. And making sure old messages are deleted to avoid an order being executed twice.

Note: Because there is no online buyers wallet involved that a seller can tap into without further buyer action,  this is a seller's market page.

...

Orbit that is the method I was looking into, I'm still verifying the legality of that before implementing it.

Vitruvio, I can't have an escrow wallet involved or it makes LRM a money transmitter.

So basically what Orbir said, with some particularities, maybe a chat with you, a coder and couple of thinkers, I can assure you that this is only few hours to make it works, then maybe someone can make  a little css, this is not my strong.

[fractal02]

The bulk of it is going toward a deal with BitFury that is in the works, and this is going to provide many many many multiples of the current in hand hashrate.

I really hope you have a good deal with us because right now Dave put H-cards at insulting price...
I don't trust Bitfury anymore...they act like ASICminer.

Once they had theirs mines up, they now don't care about miners(=rivals).

I hope you have more Hardware seller alternative...

[||bit]

A simple automated script, hosted with LR's website could be made that isn't terribly complicated. One possible algorithm is to do this:

1. Website server receives seller messages from LR webpage (basic input text boxes that get submitted to server side script).
2. Script verifies messages from seller.
3. If verified, script verifies seller actually has bonds and sufficient quantity per some official copy of the ledger.
4. If verified, website market page is updated to reflect sellers quantity and ask price for market to see. *
5. Buyer see's price and clicks seller price. Immediately, that sell order is removed from the cue to avoid duplicate orders. Anyone subsequently clicking with a then stale webpage will simply get no record found.
6. Buyer is presented input options and submits message to purchase (including wallet address which the verified message depends upon - that is his account number - and also an optional wallet address for receiving dividends).
7. Script verifies buyer sent sufficient btc as per the blockchain (within say 1 hours and maybe at least 3 confirmations). If not received, then there is a problem on how to clear this...this could cause problems.
8. If verified, deduct quantity from seller account and add to buyers account (if that account already exists) on bond ledger. If buyers account does not yet exist, create one now and add to ledger with bought quantity.

* A couple other aspects need to be included. Such as allowing seller to cancel order. And making sure old messages are deleted to avoid an order being executed twice.

Note: Because there is no online buyers wallet involved that a seller can tap into without further buyer action,  this is a seller's market page.

...

Orbit that is the method I was looking into, I'm still verifying the legality of that before implementing it.

Vitruvio, I can't have an escrow wallet involved or it makes LRM a money transmitter.

So basically what Orbir said, with some particularities, maybe a chat with you, a coder and couple of thinkers, I can assure you that this is only few hours to make it works, then maybe someone can make  a little css, this is not my strong.

I'll bet you it isn't as easy as it looks. My pseudo-code was incomplete. Also, there are issues I noted...and some I didn't... for example, a bad seller could click other sellers links to remove them from view on the market page. So, this system, as written, would rely on an honor system among buyers and sellers to not disrupt the harmony of the market.

Also, in either case, buyer or bad seller clicks a sell order, it would be risky to re-post a sell order. You never know if a buyer actually sent bitcoin. Sometimes it takes a while to show up on the blockchain.

[fractal02]

Maybe something based on Eclipse Trader ?

With custom stock (LRM) ?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipsetrader/

Or if you have some money (they can provide developpers) ==>

http://www.m4platform.com/brokerage.aspx

Pretty well explain here : http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=cyvaAiP9OtQ&vq=hd720

Very interesting at 7:10

[||bit]

Maybe something based on Eclipse Trader ?

With custom stock (LRM) ?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipsetrader/

Is that a trading platform or an exchange platform? Looks like a traders platform.

[fractal02]

Maybe something based on Eclipse Trader ?

With custom stock (LRM) ?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipsetrader/

Is that a trading platform or an exchange platform? Looks like a traders platform.

Trading as i know but fully customisable (friends use it with customs stocks...)

Just some ideas 

[SimonBelmond]

Lets just wait for open-transactions/moneychanger (aka holy grail)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=225954.0

Once OT is out there, the market will be as free as money/commodity is with Bitcoin.

[M31]

My dumb suggestion:

Start a private altcoin and premine 100%. "LRMcoin"  100,000 units, divisible by a factor to be set in the future (like 10 for example, to yield 1,000,000 fractions).

Assign LRMcoins to users in proportion to the # of bonds they hold then delete the bond concept.  Divs paid to each LRMcoin not held by LRM.  I don't exactly understand how coloured coins work, but my guess would be that a BTC address could be encoded into each LRMcoin, and changed as ownership changes.

Also of interest see https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1310.0;all for some ideas.

[||bit]

My dumb suggestion:

Start a private altcoin and premine 100%. "LRMcoin"  100,000 units, divisible by a factor to be set in the future (like 10 for example, to yield 1,000,000 fractions).

Assign LRMcoins to users in proportion to the # of bonds they hold then delete the bond concept.  Divs paid to each LRMcoin not held by LRM.  I don't exactly understand how coloured coins work, but my guess would be that a BTC address could be encoded into each LRMcoin, and changed as ownership changes.

Also of interest see https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1310.0;all for some ideas.

I've thought of the same or similar, but figured it would be either difficult to find the programming talent to do that, or if we could find the talent, then the problem wold be whether they would be willing to do the programming. Maybe a poor presumption on my part. A possibly similar route is using mastercoin. I'm not sure how mastercoin works, but from my understanding, you can make your own customized coins with it that ride on top of the bitcoin protocol.

One possible major advantage of a Labratcoin is that the coin itself might become worth more by simply being a coin

Hmm... that might make it worth persuing more aggressively... Should we investigate that route more?

Suppose you have a labcoin/labratcoin/LRcoin/whatevercoin wallet. Each coin represents a share or bond. All you'd have to do is sign a message with the labrat wallet, with a bitcoin wallet address you want dividends sent to in the body of the message. Easy. The only thing LR would have to do is keep track of labrat coin wallet amounts. If a new labrat wallet is made, it would have to register an address on labrats website perhaps. Oh, but you still run into the problem of how to trade labratcoins for bitcoins. Maybe, get http://bter.com/ to pick it up as an altcoin. It's not like they are picky about what altcoins they include on the list. The advantage of labratcoin is that it's a coin that pays dividends. Wow. If it's easy to trade...that would make it worth a lot more... I'd think.

There are probably some nuances I'm missing though.

[ninthgate]

I doubt the altcoin concept offers any advantage apart from maybe getting it listed on a dubious exchange.

it opens up issues like what happens if my hd crashes, and I lose my lrm wallet?   
what if i made a private sale? while the transaction happens without an issue, both parties still have to go back to grnbrg to pay him his fee to update the ledger?? meanwhile the blockchain should be proof enough, right?  doesnt seem to fix anything apart from having it listed on an exchange of ill repute and exposing it to increased volatility and buyers who will have no idea what the heck they just bought.  and I all but guarantee that they'll have zero clue on how to digitally sign a message.
would lr pay divs on lrm coin fractions?
if lrm bonds are replaced by a dividend paying alt coin, does lr draw scrutiny for coining money? 

if I wanted to buy fakecoin, or whatever, I wouldve bought one of the lamecoins.  I bought btc dividend paying bonds in lrm.  I'm not willing to restructure the holding just to buy some dubious beta.

[VinceSamios]

Why so much attention in pandering to those who just want to trade the stock?

[||bit]

I doubt the altcoin concept offers any advantage apart from maybe getting it listed on a dubious exchange.

You don't need to use the exchange as a wallet. The coins stay in your labrat wallet...unless you want to trade them. You can do this privately if desired.

it opens up issues like what happens if my hd crashes, and I lose my lrm wallet?

The exact same thing if your HD crashes with the wallet you have on record with Labrat that you signed a message with. Dividends will still be paid in bitcoins to some bitcoin address.

 
what if i made a private sale? while the transaction happens without an issue, both parties still have to go back to grnbrg to pay him his fee to update the ledger?? meanwhile the blockchain should be proof enough, right?  doesnt seem to fix anything apart from having it listed on an exchange of ill repute and exposing it to increased volatility and buyers who will have no idea what the heck they just bought.  and I all but guarantee that they'll have zero clue on how to digitally sign a message.

Not in the scenario I described. If you have labrat coins in your labrat wallet. Register the wallet address on the LR website. It would be entirely automatic on the server side.

would lr pay divs on lrm coin fractions?

Yes. As long as you register the labrat wallet and provide a bitcoin address for dividends to be deposited.

if lrm bonds are replaced by a dividend paying alt coin, does lr draw scrutiny for coining money?

I'm pretty sure the answer here is no. It isn't presented as an official US currency, and it doesn't look like any US currency.

if I wanted to buy fakecoin, or whatever, I wouldve bought one of the lamecoins.  I bought btc dividend paying bonds in lrm.  I'm not willing to restructure the holding just to buy some dubious beta.

The software is already proven. Bitcoin is no more real than any altcoin. Most of the altcoin software is the same - just launch any altcoin wallet and see. Your % holdings and dividends would not change one iota. Only the digital form of the bond.

[||bit]

Why so much attention in pandering to those who just want to trade the stock?

It's not a stock. And it's questionably a bond.

Anyway, I don't think there is too much attention allotted to those that want to trade the bonds. Some would like to sell, but the price is very depressed. Why? It seems in-part because it can't be easily traded. Evidence of that is just looking at the price pre- and post- Bitfunder. So, if a person decides to sell now, they are forced to take a deeper loss because of a lack of a any easy/fast trading procedure. Why should someone that merely changes their mind on a holding be required to sell their position for a loss in-part because the way to trade it is only a little better than making a craigslist posting?

[twmz]

Why so much attention in pandering to those who just want to trade the stock?

It's not a stock. And it's questionably a bond.

Anyway, I don't think there is too much attention allotted to those that want to trade the bonds. Some would like to sell, but the price is very depressed. Why? It seems in-part because it can't be easily traded. Evidence of that is just looking at the price pre- and post- Bitfunder. So, if a person decides to sell now, they are forced to take a deeper loss because of a lack of a any easy/fast trading procedure. Why should someone that merely changes their mind on a holding be required to sell their position for a loss in-part because the way to trade it is only a little better than making a craigslist posting?

+1

That's me in a nutshell. 

[kuikmaa]

Why so much attention in pandering to those who just want to trade the stock?

It's not a stock. And it's questionably a bond.

Anyway, I don't think there is too much attention allotted to those that want to trade the bonds. Some would like to sell, but the price is very depressed. Why? It seems in-part because it can't be easily traded. Evidence of that is just looking at the price pre- and post- Bitfunder. So, if a person decides to sell now, they are forced to take a deeper loss because of a lack of a any easy/fast trading procedure. Why should someone that merely changes their mind on a holding be required to sell their position for a loss in-part because the way to trade it is only a little better than making a craigslist posting?

+1

That's me in a nutshell. 

+2, I made a similar post a few pages ago. Someone brought up a good point, the incentive to setup an easy trade procedure isnt there since the LRM funds have already been raised, and the company as a whole isnt affected by the current buy/sell price. I think we can all agree that having a more automated method of trading bonds would both sell the "LRM direct" bonds much faster, and entice more buyers and sellers to get involved. Ive been with LRM since the beginning, and dont plan on selling for a while, but knowing the valuation of the bond was still somewhat retained when i do decide to sell would make me much more comfortable.

[fractal02]

After missing KNCminer boat...

I hope LabRat take a look at HashFast :

https://hashfast.com/hashfast-announces-fastest-bitcoin-mining-chip-in-the-world/

And they have a wholesale program... 

[||bit]

My feeling is that LR should resolve the trading solution before offering more bonds. This may help alleviate the bond price depreciation. Why sell new bonds at BTC0.10 when you can sell them for maybe BTC0.15 or BTC0.20?

Also, if the potential deal is what LR says, he could capitalize on this with an advertisement campaign. But again, having a trading solution would be important to resolve before proceeding with such plans. Again, that's just my feeling on it.

[daemonfox]

HEHEHE I love hearing people say "I have been here since the beginning..." it makes me giggle... ever so slightly.

Other than the possibility that the privately purchased shares for the big investors that Zach worked with at the start... I am the very first LRM owner... I was primed and ready to go the moment LRM went live and bought the first shares available to the public in the first few seconds. If those shares were live before the other holders got theirs assigned... then I am definitely his first investor... even if it was a very small amount.