-

[CumpsD]

You would think if I was wrong lab-rat or gnrgb would put me straight right?

Not really, since they don't have the habbit to reply to the more interesting questions.

Clearly I am not the only one who has questions, so a clarification from Lab_Rat would be nice, and only from Lab_Rat, not anyone else posting in this thread who does not hold the truth with 100% certainty.

I'll give it a shot to put it in an easy format for Lab_Rat:

• Do you have a share in CoinSeed? If so, how much?
• Does LRM have a share in CoinSeed? If so, how much?
• Is the electricity cost paid out of the 25% management fee?
• Do you have time to manage 2 mines? Which one gets priority if both face urgent issues?
• Does this have anything to do with the ASIC project? (the custom boards photo you posted)
• Is there any new equipment planned already which will be bought together with CoinSeed? (I remember new bonds beeing issued for this)
• How do you intend to grow LRM? Buying new hardware with a part from the 25%? New bonds?

[1714479518]

1714479518

[1714479518]

1714479518

[sparky999]

You would think if I was wrong lab-rat or gnrgb would put me straight right?

Not really, since they don't have the habbit to reply to the more interesting questions.

Clearly I am not the only one who has questions, so a clarification from Lab_Rat would be nice, and only from Lab_Rat, not anyone else posting in this thread who does not hold the truth with 100% certainty.

I'll give it a shot to put it in an easy format for Lab_Rat:

• Do you have a share in CoinSeed? If so, how much?
• Does LRM have a share in CoinSeed? If so, how much?
• Is the electricity cost paid out of the 25% management fee?
• Do you have time to manage 2 mines? Which one gets priority if both face urgent issues?
• Does this have anything to do with the ASIC project? (the custom boards photo you posted)
• Is there any new equipment planned already which will be bought together with CoinSeed? (I remember new bonds beeing issued for this)
• How do you intend to grow LRM? Buying new hardware with a part from the 25%? New bonds?

No
No
Yes
Probably
Yes this is the asic project
Yes 156 Th
Yes both.

Any questions that haven't been answered in this thread already?

[CumpsD]

You would think if I was wrong lab-rat or gnrgb would put me straight right?

Not really, since they don't have the habbit to reply to the more interesting questions.

Clearly I am not the only one who has questions, so a clarification from Lab_Rat would be nice, and only from Lab_Rat, not anyone else posting in this thread who does not hold the truth with 100% certainty.

I'll give it a shot to put it in an easy format for Lab_Rat:

• Do you have a share in CoinSeed? If so, how much?
• Does LRM have a share in CoinSeed? If so, how much?
• Is the electricity cost paid out of the 25% management fee?
• Do you have time to manage 2 mines? Which one gets priority if both face urgent issues?
• Does this have anything to do with the ASIC project? (the custom boards photo you posted)
• Is there any new equipment planned already which will be bought together with CoinSeed? (I remember new bonds beeing issued for this)
• How do you intend to grow LRM? Buying new hardware with a part from the 25%? New bonds?

No
No
Yes
Probably
Yes this is the asic project
Yes 156 Th
Yes both.

Any questions that haven't been answered in this thread already?

Please quote the clear answers from Lab_Rat.

[bobfranklin]

Unless partnership suddenly means working for another company and getting paid personally for that work then, no. The only thing that has changed is access to cheaper hardware and getting to share a small section of the coinseed location.

You would think if I was wrong lab-rat or gnrgb would put me straight right?

If this was a partnership with coinseed then share price would have more than quadrupled.

No one has said Zach is being paid by this Coinseed entity. He himself has said he hasn't taken a wage/salary from LRM. We've also not been told more than cheap power let alone do we get a share of the hashing power of coinseed. Just that we get a cheaper buy price.

Shares? I didn't know we could buy them. I've got bonds. They're different.

Please quote the clear answers from Lab_Rat.

Agreed, LR/Zach has not made defined the answers you've given hard answers for. You may be right, but I suspect you're not.

I'm curious with the drop in power price how the 25% changes. More hardware to balance the relatively low cost or higher divs?

[sparky999]

If this was as good as everyone wants it to be for LRM then Zach would be shouting from the rooftops, what is actually happening is he is staying silent so that the questions will fade away. There is zach and his assistant and gnrgb and not one of them is coming in here to dismiss anything I have said.

I hoped I was wrong for the first few days after the announcement but it is very clear at this stage that this is not what we all wanted it to be.

[fractal02]

You would think if I was wrong lab-rat or gnrgb would put me straight right?

• Does this have anything to do with the ASIC project? (the custom boards photo you posted)

Yes this is the asic project

WRONG.

The new rigs are just Bitfury chips inside.
It's the new String design for the H-Boards from Cscape ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=370932.0 ) with new M-board 50 PCI-e connectors.
Nothing more nothing less.

100TH mine and Dave from Megabigpower have already them in their mine...

If this is the epic ASIC plan...well...this is really lame...

With 5 Millions Dollars buying mining gears instead of building an ASIC chip is totally stupid. 

Here the real winners : ASIC chip builders
The full win is =>

- Mine with your "at cost gears" +  Sell your gears to suckers competitors/customers + Run an IPO/exchange based on your Hashpowers.
Money from everywhere ! 

[CumpsD]

As you can see, fractal02 confirms the answers from sparky999 are non-authorative.

Only Lab_Rat can answer 100% correctly.

[sparky999]

If this is the epic ASIC plan...well...this is really lame...

Yup my point exactly.

[sparky999]

As you can see, fractal02 confirms the answers from sparky999 are non-authorative.

Only Lab_Rat can answer 100% correctly.

If I am wrong then where is lab-rat, gnrgb or his assistant to set everyone straight. I have been repeating myself for days now and it's all quiet. I want to be wrong I am one of the largest shareholders in this company but nothing points in that direction right now.

[maqifrnswa]

He himself has said he hasn't taken a wage/salary from LRM.

He never said that. He said he didn't take a fee out of the first two weeks of dividends he withheld from new hardware, and he explicitly said he takes a fee out of his 25%. But has never said what that fee is.

Also, how do you know he just didn't give himself shares at IPO?

[CumpsD]

As you can see, fractal02 confirms the answers from sparky999 are non-authorative.

Only Lab_Rat can answer 100% correctly.

If I am wrong then where is lab-rat, gnrgb or his assistant to set everyone straight. I have been repeating myself for days now and it's all quiet. I want to be wrong I am one of the largest shareholders in this company but nothing points in that direction right now.

One of the reason the bond price doesn't skyrocket is also partly because of the flawed communication, uncertainty. You don't really know what you own, as you can see from the replies to seemingly simple questions, everyone seems to have a different interpretation

As long as Lab_Rat does not reply, nobody can tell if you need to be set straight or not, since silence is just that... silence, it does not imply you are correct.

[sparky999]

As you can see, fractal02 confirms the answers from sparky999 are non-authorative.

Only Lab_Rat can answer 100% correctly.

If I am wrong then where is lab-rat, gnrgb or his assistant to set everyone straight. I have been repeating myself for days now and it's all quiet. I want to be wrong I am one of the largest shareholders in this company but nothing points in that direction right now.

One of the reason the bond price doesn't skyrocket is also partly because of the flawed communication, uncertainty. You don't really know what you own, as you can see from the replies to seemingly simple questions, everyone seems to have a different interpretation

As long as Lab_Rat does not reply, nobody can tell if you need to be set straight or not, since silence is just that... silence, it does not imply you are correct.

there is no way that one of those 3 people have not read this thread in the last 5 days or whatever it is now - everyone is silent, everyone is avoiding answering the questions that have been asked. Silence may not imply I am correct but it does imply there are questions that Zach would prefer not be answered right now, for whatever reason that may be.

[CumpsD]

there is no way that one of those 3 people have not read this thread in the last 5 days or whatever it is now - everyone is silent, everyone is avoiding answering the questions that have been asked. Silence may not imply I am correct but it does imply there are questions that Zach would prefer not be answered right now, for whatever reason that may be.

I am not saying thay have not read it, I actually agree with you, there are questions they seem to quickly read over and choose to ignore.

That does not mean we need to stop asking them

[grnbrg]

You would think if I was wrong lab-rat or gnrgb would put me straight right?

Not really, since they don't have the habbit to reply to the more interesting questions.

Clearly I am not the only one who has questions, so a clarification from Lab_Rat would be nice, and only from Lab_Rat, not anyone else posting in this thread who does not hold the truth with 100% certainty.

I'll give it a shot to put it in an easy format for Lab_Rat:

• Do you have a share in CoinSeed? If so, how much?
• Does LRM have a share in CoinSeed? If so, how much?
• Is the electricity cost paid out of the 25% management fee?
• Do you have time to manage 2 mines? Which one gets priority if both face urgent issues?
• Does this have anything to do with the ASIC project? (the custom boards photo you posted)
• Is there any new equipment planned already which will be bought together with CoinSeed? (I remember new bonds beeing issued for this)
• How do you intend to grow LRM? Buying new hardware with a part from the 25%? New bonds?

No
No
Yes
Probably
Yes this is the asic project
Yes 156 Th
Yes both.

Any questions that haven't been answered in this thread already?

I do watch this thread pretty closely, even if I don't respond too much.  And I don't respond much, because a lot of the discussion is opinion based, and I'm somewhat reluctant to share my opinions on some things as there is a risk of it being perceived as LRM opinion.  And most of the factual questions I simply don't have answers to.  I do try to keep Lab_Rat informed on the discussions here, though and do get the impression he is extremely busy trying to make LRM (and therefore all of us) a success.  In my year and a half or so of active involvement in watching Bitcoin startups come and go, though, I have noticed two things:  1) Most companies end up (probably through experience) giving out less and less information over time because 2) whenever there is a setback or other "bad" news, they end up being beaten up with it.  It gets frustrating to deal with.

That said, what do I think...

The Fiat Break Even vs BTC Break Even debate:  (First off:  <RANT TYPE="grammar">Everyone is using  ROI wrong.  You are looking for a break even point, or at very least a positive ROI.  But "I haven't made ROI yet!" doesn't make sense.  </RANT>)  Yes, looking at the investment in terms of fiat doesn't really make sense.  Yes, if I liquidated my bonds at market rate, and sold those Bitcoins, plus my dividend Bitcoins, I'd be ahead in terms of fiat.  That makes me sort of happy.  But if I'd just bought coins, I'd have considerably more.  But the first rule of investing in stuff like this is "No more than you can afford to lose.", so you have no one other than yourself to blame for that choice.  In terms of BTC break even, each bond sold has so far been paid out 0.02-0.022BTC (give or take, on average) in dividends, which is 10-15%, depending on how much was paid for them (0.15-0.2BTC).  This is over the last 7 months or so, with the first couple giving no divs at all.  10-20% return per year to me seems to be a very well producing investment.  If I could pick stocks that performed that well in the real world, I'd be rich.  I don't (and never really did) expect my investment in LRM to break even within a year or two. 

And as far as CumpsD's list above...  The first two, I don't know the answer to.  Lab_Rat is involved with Coinseed, deeply enough that he was mentioned by name in their press release.  It's also the sort of detail we probably won't be given.  Yes, power and facilities costs are paid out of the 25% management fees.  Two data centres -- I can't answer that one, but if Lab_Rat has been busy with the LRM operation, you can expect him to be be busier with this extra stuff.  I'm not sure, but I think that the Coinseed and ASIC projects are separate.  Yes, Lab_Rat announced that a new ~156TH of equipment had been ordered (For LRM exclusive use) in conjunction with Coinseed.  And yes, LRM is being grown based in part out of the management fee and future bond sales.

One other thing:  Some one said that "Lab_Rat hasn't drawn a salary from LRM.".  What he actually said was "I also haven't even taken a paycheck this year yet.", which isn't quite the same.



grnbrg.

[Bargraphics]

But if I'd just bought coins, I'd have considerably more. 

Unfortunately this is the argument most people make and it's simply wrong in every which way.

You have no idea where the market is going, if you didn't buy LRM bonds you probably would have sold your coins at market rate. If you say "No I wouldn't have" well then you shouldn't be on here complaining because you obviously knew where the market was going and would be very wealthy right now.

This wasn't a Jab at grnbrg, just at that ideology of "would have, could have".

[ksenter]

But if I'd just bought coins, I'd have considerably more. 

Unfortunately this is the argument most people make and it's simply wrong in every which way.

You have no idea where the market is going, if you didn't buy LRM bonds you probably would have sold your coins at market rate. If you say "No I wouldn't have" well then you shouldn't be on here complaining because you obviously knew where the market was going and would be very wealthy right now.

This wasn't a Jab at grnbrg, just at that ideology of "would have, could have".

I disagree.  If the bonds were bought with fiat then you can compare fiat return, but they were bought with bitcoin and they return bitcoin. 

By your logic if you gave someone all of your bitcoins and they slowly gave back 10% of them as the price increased you'd consider that a good investment. 

Just because you would have sold your bitcoins doesn't mean everyone else would have.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the investment.  Not yet anyway.  As long as it eventually pays off enough and/or the price of the bonds goes back up enough to make up the difference then I'll consider my investment a success.  But as of right now I haven't made back my bitcoins yet.

[Bargraphics]

But if I'd just bought coins, I'd have considerably more. 

Unfortunately this is the argument most people make and it's simply wrong in every which way.

You have no idea where the market is going, if you didn't buy LRM bonds you probably would have sold your coins at market rate. If you say "No I wouldn't have" well then you shouldn't be on here complaining because you obviously knew where the market was going and would be very wealthy right now.

This wasn't a Jab at grnbrg, just at that ideology of "would have, could have".

I disagree.  If the bonds were bought with fiat then you can compare fiat return, but they were bought with bitcoin and they return bitcoin. 

By your logic if you gave someone all of your bitcoins and they slowly gave back 10% of them as the price increased you'd consider that a good investment. 

Just because you would have sold your bitcoins doesn't mean everyone else would have.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the investment.  Not yet anyway.  As long as it eventually pays off enough and/or the price of the bonds goes back up enough to make up the difference then I'll consider my investment a success.  But as of right now I haven't made back my bitcoins yet.

If you wanted to hold on to your bitcoins why did you invest them in something ridiculously risky? Actions speak louder than words.

Also you assumed that from me. I think anything that makes you more money than you had before in terms of $$ is a good investment. Doesn't mean there weren't better "Investments" or actions that could have made more money.

Everyone on here is an Investment guru and pretends to know the future yet they are all broke. Tell me why that is.

[maqifrnswa]

Actions speak louder than words.

This.

No need to debate. Just make your move and vote with your wallet.

Stats so far: total BTC returned, per share: 0.017-0.018BTC.
Shares are currently exchanging at ~0.066BTC (~$55)

If you think LRM will return dividends > 0.066BTC over the life of the investment or will appreciate/reach steady state, then buy. If you think it will return less than 0.066BTC, sell. If the only way you see LRM returning $55/share (more than triple what has been distributed so far) is if BTC rises in value, then think about what that means and how you could better optimize your return (hint: it's not by owning LRM).

[ksenter]

But if I'd just bought coins, I'd have considerably more.  

Unfortunately this is the argument most people make and it's simply wrong in every which way.

You have no idea where the market is going, if you didn't buy LRM bonds you probably would have sold your coins at market rate. If you say "No I wouldn't have" well then you shouldn't be on here complaining because you obviously knew where the market was going and would be very wealthy right now.

This wasn't a Jab at grnbrg, just at that ideology of "would have, could have".

I disagree.  If the bonds were bought with fiat then you can compare fiat return, but they were bought with bitcoin and they return bitcoin.  

By your logic if you gave someone all of your bitcoins and they slowly gave back 10% of them as the price increased you'd consider that a good investment.  

Just because you would have sold your bitcoins doesn't mean everyone else would have.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the investment.  Not yet anyway.  As long as it eventually pays off enough and/or the price of the bonds goes back up enough to make up the difference then I'll consider my investment a success.  But as of right now I haven't made back my bitcoins yet.

If you wanted to hold on to your bitcoins why did you invest them in something ridiculously risky? Actions speak louder than words.

Also you assumed that from me. I think anything that makes you more money than you had before in terms of $$ is a good investment. Doesn't mean there weren't better "Investments" or actions that could have made more money.

Everyone on here is an Investment guru and pretends to know the future yet they are all broke. Tell me why that is.

First off, I invested my bitcoins in LRM in hopes of making more bitcoins.  Why did you invest?

Second, I'm not broke.  I still have a decent holding of bitcoins.  I never said I was an investment guru though.  Only that I disagree that we've broken even yet.

[Ashitank]

I appreciate Zach's hard work but at the same time LRM still has long ways to go , just as a comparison , I bought few Petamine shares @ IPO rice of 0.065 i guess & have already received 25% of IPO price in dividends as BTC & now each share of Petamine is soon going to be hashing @ 2.4 Gh/s & with re-investment program it is going to grow overtime , simply put LRM has good competition but if LRM's plans work out then we should be happy