-

[szmarco]

how old are you?
Avoiding questions and confusing concepts.

[BitSugar]

how old are you?

haha. I was wondering this myself.

[Zoznoz]

I will be surprised if even the first 20k are sold, ( the ones already sold are sold "privetly" )

Those that were sold were sold through BitFunder, not privately.  A few were done privately as to prove to Ukto that there was interest in the company.  Thank you btcmonkey and bargraphics for explaining things to people who choose not to read or can't find what I've typed.

1. Do bondholders own the equipment they are paying for?
2. Will there be any transparency for purchase prices? Proof of purchases?
3. Does the company have any assets or experience to justify such a large fundraising effort?
4. What pool will you mine on to prove your work?
5. Why on earth would anyone want to buy into stale BFL orders? Why order from any company that has not demonstrated reliable delivery?
6. When does mining start?
7. What's in it for Lab Rat?

These are the answers we all need to know. It bothers me that these 'companies' can get away with raising over $100,000 USD and essentially have no liability if it goes bust yet there is minimal regulations on investor relations. If you're too busy to field questions and create financial statements then hire a company secretary with all the money you raised to do this for you. I'm sorry to be harsh but I don't see a business whatsoever, I just see a "I'm going to buy equipment with your $120,000" statement. Most people need more than that.

[Plazma]

Ok seeing what is going on I would like to say.
Do not invest in this.

[Factory]

I have decided to give the bondholders a nice juicy bonus due to such a wonderful opening sale. For every 20k bonds sold I will guarantee a minimum of a 10MH/s per bond increase.

20k sold 110MH/s
40k sold 120MH/s
60k sold 130MH/s
80k sold 140MH/s
100k sold 150MH/s

Those are minimum hashrates and will likely increase once I get to meet Dave. As if LabRatMining wasn't being competitive enough in the market, just had to make the deal that much better.

Saying that electricity and management doesn't come out of mining revenue, acting as if equipment won't depreciate and eventually break, randomly "magically bumping up" mh/s just for the hell of it, and avoiding answering all real criticisms......

Red flags.

Red flags everywhere.

[Lab_Rat]

I'm not avoiding questions, you could answer them yourself if you read.

1. Do bondholders own the equipment they are paying for?
2. Will there be any transparency for purchase prices? Proof of purchases?
3. Does the company have any assets or experience to justify such a large fundraising effort?
4. What pool will you mine on to prove your work?
5. Why on earth would anyone want to buy into stale BFL orders? Why order from any company that has not demonstrated reliable delivery?
6. When does mining start?
7. What's in it for Lab Rat?

1. No, just the hashrate.
2. Yes (this one I haven't actually answered) I won't be giving out exact info, but Josh and Dave will likely confirm that I have the orders in place.
3. How does one prepare for a large scale mining operation? I have some datacenter experience and know quite a lot about mining.  Is that the kind of answer you're looking for?
4. I will be mining on a private pool to provide security against attackers.  Someone DDoSing pools to mess with the company is not an option, but if you'd like to check my numbers of what I'm paying out you can average a few weeks pay and run a calculator yourself.
5. I will be making purchases with other companies other than BFL.  But I would like to know which company has demonstrated reliable delivery... None of them have delivered consistently or reliably.
6. Mining will hopefully start within 2-4 weeks, but to be conservative I'll say 3-6.  I have a few people with June/July 2012 BFL orders expecting gear soon looking to trade HW for bonds.
7. I will be purchasing an amount of hardware on the side to pay hosting and electrical costs as well as some profit.  If you don't believe I should make a profit for putting together such a company then you may be the one that is unreasonable.

I am trying to be transparent and I'm not ignoring questions... I'm human. I went out for dinner to celebrate my IPO.  Is that such a bad thing? I apologize and will try to be readily available on 6 or 7 forms of internet communication 24/7 from now on.

[Nemesis]

Wow... ppl still take this kid seriously.... by the amount of questions asked here...

To sum it up to you, this company just want to sell pre-orders at markup price. The OP also want to buy some of those mining equipment without spending a cent.

[Zoznoz]

Hi Lab-Rat thanks for providing answers to the questions. Some answers were not provided initially though things are more transparent now. However, I disagree with your attitude in regards to us demanding speculators and investors. I assume you've traded shares before and therefore understand the billions of dollars listed companies pay in admin and investor relation fees every year.  You admit yourself that you are only human and find it difficult to field questions 24/7, this bothers me a lot because most 'company' managers such as yourself are focussed on securing $10,000 to over $100,000 yet can't provide the basic and timely necessary information to investors. It's not just a criticism to you but all 'companies' and the asset exchanges.

I understand you want to be the manager and spend your time operating the business but this is why I can't understand why these 'companies' don't hire someone for say BTC1-2 a month to do admin/investor relations tasks for the business so that the manager spends more time on important issues rather than admin. We never receive most of the company's information and some of the stuff these 'companies' do provide to us is rubbish and just unreadable financial statements.

[Lab_Rat]

Hi Lab-Rat thanks for providing answers to the questions. Some answers were not provided initially though things are more transparent now. However, I disagree with your attitude in regards to us demanding speculators and investors. I assume you've traded shares before and therefore understand the billions of dollars listed companies pay in admin and investor relation fees every year.  You admit yourself that you are only human and find it difficult to field questions 24/7, this bothers me a lot because most 'company' managers such as yourself are focussed on securing $10,000 to over $100,000 yet can't provide the basic and timely necessary information to investors. It's not just a criticism to you but all 'companies' and the asset exchanges.

I understand you want to be the manager and spend your time operating the business but this is why I can't understand why these 'companies' don't hire someone for say BTC1-2 a month to do admin/investor relations tasks for the business so that the manager spends more time on important issues rather than admin. We never receive most of the company's information and some of the stuff these 'companies' do provide to us is rubbish and just unreadable financial statements.

I have been working on it and I am hiring grnbrg to do this for me.  He offered to do it for free, but I find that unfair.  He has already begun setting up alternate forms of delivering information to investors as well.

I have been available in at least one place for close to 16 hours a day (some days 20 hours) the past 3-4 weeks, but it will now likely be much easier to get all the required information out.  I have also stated at least 20-30 times across the internet that the best way to get ahold of me, just in case I am away from the computer, is to email me directly. labrat@labratmining.com

I didn't mean to appear to have an attitude toward the potential investors.  I have no problem with those asking questions, but with the people assuming and blaring false information, I don't appreciate it.  There is a fine line between criticism and trolling when it comes to the internet as interpreting the context of a statement may be a challenge. I hope you can understand this much.

[Epoch]

@Lab_Rat: who are you, where are you, and what makes you believe you are qualified to carry the responsibility of your proposed venture? When things go sour, your investors will want to know where and how they can get hold of you. So please provide that information here, for transparency's sake.

Reading your posts here and on the BFL forums, you strike me as being quite young. At least mentally (no offense intended). What are your qualifications for managing such an offering, and why should anyone trust you?

There is fellow here, Hashking, a Hero member registered 18 months ago, who was well-regarded here for a long time. He carries a SCAMMER tag now, and he's just one person I'm using as an example; there are numerous cases just like this here recently, including several people trying (and eventually failing) to run mining bond/share companies (e.g. Amazingrando, for a start). These ventures fail because the people attempting to run them are inexperienced, underestimate the required scope, and make bad decisions as a result.

Now, Hashking managed a lot of BTC for a lot of people because they trusted him. Turns out he is just a high-school kid, and mis-managed the trust given to him by his investors who are now out of pocket big time. Guess what: he was inexperienced, got in over his head, lied to his investors, made some bad decisions, and things went south. Simple as that. Shouldn't have surprised anyone, if only they knew who he was.

Or how about PatrickHarnett? Arguably the most respected and trusted member here for years. Seemingly beyond reproach. He didn't run a mining operation, but he did manage thousands of BTC for people. Just like you are attempting to do. Now Patrick is carrying a SCAMMER tag. And I'm not even going to mention what happened with Pirateat40.

There are endless examples of people who may or may not have had good intentions from the start, that inevitably ended up saving their own skins at the expense of their investors. That seems to be par for the course in this 'anonymous bitcoin club' we find ourselves in. But I think a growing portion of us has seen, experienced, and been affected by enough scams that we refuse to accept the call of some random nameless, faceless, internet persona screaming "give me your money!" for whatever the promise-of-the-day happens to be.

So who are you? Convince us that you are different. Or tell us you are not.

[dhenson]

Interested in investing, but it doesn't seem like the numbers are working out.

100,000 shares @ .15 = 15,000 btc (edit..just realized you are releasing the shares in a tiered fashion and I've under estimated the amount you would receive through your IPO, but the point stands)

With 15,000 btc, you could purchase approximately 208 KnC Jupiter devices for ~83Th/s in October.  As a comparison to your plan, you are currently guaranteeing 10Th/s assuming BFL delivery which is questionable at best.

If for example I was to invest 72 btc in your company (approximately the going price for a 400Gh Jupiter) I would receive 480 shares (assuming all 100,000 shares are sold and the min. is 150MH/s) or a guaranteed 72 Gh/s.

What portion of your profits on the difference are you investing in additional hardware?  Do you expect to be able to hold a set percentage of total network hash rate like Asicminer attempts to do?

[MPOE-PR]

Have a belated see here and then gtfo.

You sir remind me of something, oh ya see here

People born in May current do not add their cluelessness as a comment to my statements. Buzz off.

[BitSugar]

@Lab_Rat: who are you, where are you, and what makes you believe you are qualified to carry the responsibility of your proposed venture? When things go sour, your investors will want to know where and how they can get hold of you. So please provide that information here, for transparency's sake.

Reading your posts here and on the BFL forums, you strike me as being quite young. At least mentally (no offense intended). What are your qualifications for managing such an offering, and why should anyone trust you?

There is fellow here, Hashking, a Hero member registered 18 months ago, who was well-regarded here for a long time. He carries a SCAMMER tag now, and he's just one person I'm using as an example; there are numerous cases just like this here recently, including several people trying (and eventually failing) to run mining bond/share companies (e.g. Amazingrando, for a start). These ventures fail because the people attempting to run them are inexperienced, underestimate the required scope, and make bad decisions as a result.

Now, Hashking managed a lot of BTC for a lot of people because they trusted him. Turns out he is just a high-school kid, and mis-managed the trust given to him by his investors who are now out of pocket big time. Guess what: he was inexperienced, got in over his head, lied to his investors, made some bad decisions, and things went south. Simple as that. Shouldn't have surprised anyone, if only they knew who he was.

Or how about PatrickHarnett? Arguably the most respected and trusted member here for years. Seemingly beyond reproach. He didn't run a mining operation, but he did manage thousands of BTC for people. Just like you are attempting to do. Now Patrick is carrying a SCAMMER tag. And I'm not even going to mention what happened with Pirateat40.

There are endless examples of people who may or may not have had good intentions from the start, that inevitably ended up saving their own skins at the expense of their investors. That seems to be par for the course in this 'anonymous bitcoin club' we find ourselves in. But I think a growing portion of us has seen, experienced, and been affected by enough scams that we refuse to accept the call of some random nameless, faceless, internet persona screaming "give me your money!" for whatever the promise-of-the-day happens to be.

So who are you? Convince us that you are different. Or tell us you are not.

bravo bravo!

[VinceSamios]

Zachary Dailey
   1 McKinley Dr
   Ocean, New Jersey 07712
   United States

Is that you? Might be worth knowing just to make sure we know who we're dealing with.


Question for LabRat - I have a concern regarding your answer to question 4 above. The problem is this could allow you to run as a Ponzi Scheme (which I am absolutely not suggesting you are doing). Could you have a think about that problem, because as an investor in LabRatMining (hey, hi, congrats, I have faith in you man) - I want more people to invest so we can get up to those 150mh/share figures :-)

Also, could you give a little more assurance on how hash rate increases would work - being a bond/share hybrid it would be good to get some clarify. If my understanding is correct you are offering shares with a minimum hash rate, and new hash rate within the company would be distributed amongst share holders. Have I understood that correctly?

As I posted on BFL forum, I sold my preorders to invest with you, so I'm really looking forward to it.

Best Vince

[grnbrg]

@Lab_Rat has offered to pay me to answer questions...  There goes my credibility.    (For the record, I've risked around $5k (dollars) with LRM.  Not a lot, but not an insignificant amount, either.)

I've watched him work the BFL forums since October last year, answering questions and helping out.  I've also talked directly to him for quite a bit in the last month or two, both before and after he started working on this mining project.

From what I can see, he is sincere in what he is doing, and is taking pains to do it correctly and transparently.  I will see if I can get some more information to post to answer some more questions.

From my point of view, the company is legitimate, and there is a good chance that I will profit from what I have invested.  That said: Yes, there is risk.  No one is forcing anyone to invest, though.



grnbrg.

[VinceSamios]

I agree with grnbrg, I see it as a high risk high reward thing - just like BTC generally.

[Epoch]

@grnbrg, no offense, but we do need to hear these responses directly from Lab_Rat; seeing how he responds, how often he responds, his tone, his transparency, attention to detail, whether he tends to change his mind over time, whether he addresses all concerns in a timely manner or if he sidesteps ones he doesn't want to deal with ... these all help paint a picture of who he is, what kind of company this will likely be, and the sort of service investors can expect in future dealings with him.

Until he provides some tangible information about himself, these indirect 'tells' are really all we have to go on to build some sense of "trust". He really needs to deal with this directly and personally; it is just part of trying to advertise one's business to potential investors. Nothing more than common sense and business etiquette, really.

Asking someone else to be a mouthpiece because he doesn't want to take the time to do it himself does not make a particularly good impression.

[VinceSamios]

heh - did you buy apple products? Steve Jobs was a massive a-hole.

[grnbrg]

Question for LabRat - I have a concern regarding your answer to question 4 above. The problem is this could allow you to run as a Ponzi Scheme (which I am absolutely not suggesting you are doing). Could you have a think about that problem, because as an investor in LabRatMining (hey, hi, congrats, I have faith in you man) - I want more people to invest so we can get up to those 150mh/share figures :-)

At the moment, Lab_Rat has been considering creating a private pool for the mining company -- he said as much above.  It makes sense in some ways:  Harder to attack and DDOS.  But definitely less transparent.  If the people who are putting money in feel that it's a problem, then he could always do as other mining companies do, and mine on several public pools.  More transparency, but also more risk.  I'll let him weigh in on it.



grnbrg.

[VinceSamios]

Sure - I think as long as people can see there are genuinely coins being mined, and it's not just originally investments being sent out as "dividends" - even just a bitcoin address should give us the info we need (as long as the same address does all the mining)