-

[||bit]

I think this is a full time job for Zach so you have to take into account the man hours involved to manage the mine.  Zach also said that he used some of his own funds to set this all up before the IPO.

This doesn't answer why the fee shouldn't come from the 25% taken for the exact purposes of paying Zach, operational costs and what's left being for re-investment.

Think about it also like this, if he wanted to relocate all the equipment to another location, should he take extra fee's from the 75% that is designated for dividends?
..or... From the 25% that is designated for fee's and operational costs? ... I know, tough question.  

[1714858079]

1714858079

[1714858079]

1714858079

[tabbek]

... This will be BTC0.025 per individual.  If your dividends for the week are of equal or lesser value, you will not receive dividends this week.  It appears the amount of bonds you must have in possession is ~20 to receive dividends.

Well this sucks a bit.

So, care to share how much of the 'would-be-dividends' are actually being kept now as a result of this impromptu payout limit?

[maqifrnswa]

1) 20% of all IPO (~$20,000, what did we get for that much money? Why did we have to pay for a lawyer? That's Zach's responsibility since we don't own the company)

This paid for setting up the mine including air con, installation etc( this process is still going on for the next batch of equipment).

2) 25% of weekly dividends (we get some hardware, but total is unknown - how much goes to management?)

This pays for electricity, maintenance, installation of new equipment and rent for mine.  Not sure if Zach is going to divulge this but a public reinvestment fund wallet might be an option?

3) .025 BTC per account, one time

This was for the time to pay manually, I think Zach said he worked on the weekend to do this. Plus I think the cost included setting up an automatic process for next time.

4) .025 BTC per account per year is transaction fees

Not sure about this?

I think this is a full time job for Zach so you have to take into account the man hours involved to manage the mine.  Zach also said that he used some of his own funds to set this all up before the IPO.

I do agree that more transparency would be better especially in this climate of closures and scams happening all around.

exactly, we don't know the answer to any of those questions - nor how much Zach personally invested, nor if this is a sustainable business model.

I'm 100% confident LabRat is not running a scam, but I'm also 100% confident he has no private equity/start-up/entrepreneurial/finance experience.

[bigasic]

... This will be BTC0.025 per individual.  If your dividends for the week are of equal or lesser value, you will not receive dividends this week.  It appears the amount of bonds you must have in possession is ~20 to receive dividends.

Well this sucks a bit.

So, care to share how much of the 'would-be-dividends' are actually being kept now as a result of this impromptu payout limit?

I did a quick figuring and I could be way off, but I think its around 1600 bonds.. Again, I didn't have time to sift thru every one, so I could be off, so its a rough estimate. So, it would be nice to know what happened to the non payed dividends since they werent sent. It would have been around 2 coins in dividends... Again, im just talking about transparency, 2 bitcoins is not much in the scheme of things. But im sure someone can go thru it with a find tooth comb and  take each holder that has 20 or less and add them up... those apparently weren't paid, so what were the coins used for?

[bigasic]

I think this is a full time job for Zach so you have to take into account the man hours involved to manage the mine.  Zach also said that he used some of his own funds to set this all up before the IPO.

This doesn't answer why the fee shouldn't come from the 25% taken for the exact purposes of paying Zach, operational costs and what's left being for re-investment.

Think about it also like this, if he wanted to relocate all the equipment to another location, should he take extra fee's from the 75% that is designated for dividends?
..or... From the 25% that is designated for fee's and operational costs? ... I know, tough question.  

Or what would happen if the air conditioning need to be fixed. Would it come from our dividends or the 25 percent management fee? Common sense would say from the management fee since thats one of the reasons he charging 25 percent.. Thats why I believe not much, if any, of the 25 percent is going towards future hashing power... Hence we need more transparency....

[Bargraphics]

... This will be BTC0.025 per individual.  If your dividends for the week are of equal or lesser value, you will not receive dividends this week.  It appears the amount of bonds you must have in possession is ~20 to receive dividends.

Well this sucks a bit.

So, care to share how much of the 'would-be-dividends' are actually being kept now as a result of this impromptu payout limit?

I did a quick figuring and I could be way off, but I think its around 1600 bonds.. Again, I didn't have time to sift thru every one, so I could be off, so its a rough estimate. So, it would be nice to know what happened to the non payed dividends since they werent sent. It would have been around 2 coins in dividends... Again, im just talking about transparency, 2 bitcoins is not much in the scheme of things. But im sure someone can go thru it with a find tooth comb and  take each holder that has 20 or less and add them up... those apparently weren't paid, so what were the coins used for?

There's 198 different address with 20 Shares or less.

1422 Shares Total from those holders

BTC1.84623948 in dividends from those shares.

187 Shareholders above 20 Shares

BTC4.675 worth of Fees taken out

BTC6.52123948 Total BTC in Fees/Unsent Dividends Minus whatever the actually fees were for sending the transactions (0.0005 transaction fee usually so BTC0.0935 cost to send manually.)

BTC6.42773948 Leftover

This from the asset list as it was roughly 2 minutes ago.

It's very easy to get this, just copy from Bitfunder - Paste into Excel - Sort from Smallest to Largest and there you go.

[bigasic]

Tell m if Im wrong, But from what I understand once I have made a backup of my wallet and I dont add any more addresses to it, I dont have to continue to make backups every time I receive or send coins, correct? Its only if i add an address that I have to do another back up. Or am I wrong?

Yes, correct.


grnbrg.

If you are using bitcoin-qt, this is wrong.  Every time you send BTC, a new address is quietly used behind the scenes to receive the change from your transaction.  You don't need to backup your wallet.dat every time you send BTC, because bitcoin-qt pre-creates a bunch of keys for this purpose, but when it runs out of pre-created keys, it will automatically create more and those new ones won't be in your old backups.

tl;dr: backup your wallet.dat regularly, not just once.  Create a cron job or a scheduled task to back it up to a Dropbox account or something once a day and you'll be fine unless you do 100s of transactions per day.

Does anyone know if multibit wallet needs to backed up regularly? or is it one of those, one time and your done, unless you add receiving addresses? Ive been playing with multibit and am starting to like it.. easy to back up, easy to use, etc..

[bigasic]

We just need some good news... Lets hope the bitfury arrival will put smiles on our faces!!!!

[JustJake]

This 0.025BTC fee is horse crap.  I don't thank you for this mining service you provide, I FREAKING PAID FOR IT!  And now this is your current thinking:

Unfortunately it will take me a few hours of manual work to get people their dividends.  I know!  I will just make hundreds of dollars an hour doing it!

Aren't your investors getting dicked over enough with this bitfunder garbage?  We gave you money and a percentage for you to work for us.  We expect you to work for us.  Stop stealing from us.  Work really damn hard.  Don't sleep.  Make it right.  You absolutely owe us.  We paid for it.

[mufa23]

This 0.025BTC fee is horse crap.  I don't thank you for this mining service you provide, I FREAKING PAID FOR IT!  And now this is your current thinking:

Unfortunately it will take me a few hours of manual work to get people their dividends.  I know!  I will just make hundreds of dollars an hour doing it!

Aren't your investors getting dicked over enough with this bitfunder garbage?  We gave you money and a percentage for you to work for us.  We expect you to work for us.  Stop stealing from us.  Work really damn hard.  Don't sleep.  Make it right.  You absolutely owe us.  We paid for it.

+1

Lab_rat,

As hostile as Jake sounds, I'm inclined to agree with him. You're already taking out a 25% fee for hosting/maintenance. Manually paying out a little under 300 addresses shouldn't be terribly difficult, and can be done in a matter of hours. Even though it's only a few bitcoins in total, it's the principle that matters. Whether it is only a few, or a few hundred coins, investors don't deserve that.

   -Mufa

[JustJake]

+1

Lab_rat,

As hostile as Jake sounds, I'm inclined to agree with him. You're already taking out a 25% fee for hosting/maintenance. Manually paying out a little under 300 addresses shouldn't be terribly difficult, and can be done in a matter of hours. Even though it's only a few bitcoins in total, it's the principle that matters. Whether it is only a few, or a few hundred coins, investors don't deserve that.

   -Mufa

Thank you Mufa.  I will admit I was a little angry when I wrote that but I will stand up for the meat of the message.  It is the numbers that kill me.

1) If he is going to pay someone with 20 bonds he is essentially stealing ~60% of their weekly dividend.  Screw that!
2) If there are 300 addresses to pay he is literally charging us $1050 for his time.  Even if he wasn't already charging us a fee for running the rigs there is no way that job is worth $1k.

As another question, I don't know where I am supposed to receive this manual dividend.  If lab rat has an asset list, I don't believe that I have given bitfunder a personal bitcoin address.  How does he know where to send funds?  Is he sending funds to my bitfunder account address so it will show up in my bitfunder account?

[twmz]

I think the reasons have been well expressed (both calmly not-so-calmly) in the thread so far.  I'll just say I agree that the fee was unreasonable.  You really ought to reimburse it. 

And going forward, the bitcoin network fee really ought to be paid out of your own pocket (correction: out of the 25% you keep each week).  Once automated, you really should be using sendmany and therefore should not have to pay 0.0005 per person, but rather just pay fees on a handful of multi-person transactions.

Finally, can you please be crystal clear on your plans for the asset and bitfunder?  Are you going to delist it?  I need to know if I have to go through the verification process prior to November 1st just to continue to hold my shares?

[a2offrb]

If it cuts my dividends- do it thru BitFunder.
Or create script.
Or i dont care until someone takes my money and says: "I have made mistake - pay for it to me".
Its your problem, you got paid for by 25% of bitcoins.

[SimonBelmond]

As another question, I don't know where I am supposed to receive this manual dividend.  If lab rat has an asset list, I don't believe that I have given bitfunder a personal bitcoin address.  How does he know where to send funds?  Is he sending funds to my bitfunder account address so it will show up in my bitfunder account?

Make sure to register a valid Bitcoin address with BitFunder. It must be one you control, i.e. own the private key and can sign a message. Your dividens might just have been blackholed this week. If Bitfunder goes down for good (in case it happened) your shares will also be blackholed if you don't control the address.

Edit: Only if you are in control of the address on the asset list you will be able to proof that you are the legitimate owner.

[Lab_Rat]

Due to issues with people not having THEIR OWN bitcoin addresses on BitFunder, I will be postponing this weeks dividends in an attempt to help give people more time to get their address situated.

This means the dividends due to go out Oct. 19th and Oct. 26th will BOTH go out on Oct. 26th.

Tuesday, Oct. 22nd, I will be freezing LRM on BitFunder and taking the final asset list.  At this time I am requesting that all individuals send a signed message in the format detailed below between Tuesday, Oct. 22nd Noon and Thursday, Oct. 24th 11:59 PM Eastern Standard Time.

If you fail to send a signed message via email to labrat@labratmining.com by the end of the time specified, your dividends will be rolled over to the following week.

Thursday, Oct. 31st will be the cut off for the week following.

If you do not verify ownership of your bonds via this method by Thursday, Nov. 7th, your bonds and accrued dividends will be absorbed by LRM.

I am giving everyone plenty of warning, so make sure your address on BitFunder is one of your own.

Format for signed message must be as follows:

EMail Title:
BTC address (must be the address on the bitfunder asset list which is the same one you signed the message with)

EMail Body:
Bonds: # owned
Name: (Name on BitCoinTalk or BFL Forums, not your real name)
BTC Address: (Preferred address, may keep the same or change)


Message Signature: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


The information in the body should be copy pasted from the signed message to your email, no leading or following spaces other than to separate the message signature from the message. No additional information necessary.

[Bargraphics]

Email Sent

[zulover]

i dont know about everyone else but i need a `how to` on this signing thing,  anyone

[Bargraphics]

The private key is what enables you to spend the BTC associated with the address.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7536/how-do-i-export-my-private-keys-from-my-bitcoin-qt-client

http://www.blockrun.com/faq/how_to_sign

And a sample signed message that I posted yesterday:


------------------
Test message.  Ignore the dashes above and below when you copy and paste this to verify.

If you can verify this, you've probably figured out enough to sign messages with your own keys.
------------------

Signed with:  1grnbrg3Ea4t6bxHvQKRvorbBeLNDXv2N

Signature:  HKT07NvQ31Mz3mpMUD+38RSnEPa0/HyrE0zx8qse5THhq3SDrsBHVLt+UogA1bsxqwy+MhYkRy1Uc+ph+627bXI=



grnbrg.

[zulover]

yes i got that thanks, just need to try it now

[grnbrg]

Email Sent

@Lab_Rat may comment otherwise, but I'd hold off emailing until the 22nd.  If your holdings change between now you'll have to resend, and it will confuse the issue....


grnbrg.