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[elitenoob]

Dont get it why 1 or 2 persons panic that much and throw away their money
Edit: go panic i want more cheaper shares

[moribana]

I strongly believe that freezing the asset at this point is a very bad decision. Freezing would have been good before the panic to give everyone time to think it over and get the information needed to make a decision. However, now the panic is over, people had two days to think about it. If someone wants to sell, they will, freezing just makes life much harder for everyone and creates additional uncertainty.

I think that the best strategy at this point is to let the dust settle and find out how we proceed. If you still think that you want to freeze the asset, I think that it would be a good idea to set the exact time when you want to do it and give at least a one day notice. Just to make things clear and predictable.

+1 , Even i think freezing asset doesnt make sense , unless Lab rat has some more info & reasons behind this move other than to stop panic selling.

Right. Panic selling is over. After the initial panic there was only one person liquidating all his ~1k shares and causing all the sudden price drops in the last 24 hours. But he just sold off his last shares. So I expect the price to recover soon, cheap shares are most likely over 

No, it's not.

2013-10-15 11:55:51   SELL   ฿0.03000000   100   ฿3.00000000
2013-10-15 11:55:20   SELL   ฿0.02270598   1   ฿0.02270598
2013-10-15 11:55:20   SELL   ฿0.02200000   50   ฿1.10000000

That was cheap shares.

That wave of panic was over at that time. I did not say that panic will never occur again in human history :-)

[bigasic]

well, it seems people are starting to lose faith in LR, why else would they sell for such a low amount.. I hope we will have the last laugh...lets hope...

[elitenoob]

well, it seems people are starting to lose faith in LR, why else would they sell for such a low amount.. I hope we will have the last laugh...lets hope...

I guess it was more or less just 1 or 2 guys with a decent ammount of shares. If someone is bored enought he can get through older share lists and see who may sold his shares.

[ksenter]

well, it seems people are starting to lose faith in LR, why else would they sell for such a low amount.. I hope we will have the last laugh...lets hope...

Yeah it does seem that way.  Anyone tracking whether it's one or two big fish or a lot of small bond holders?  I wish bitfunder would open up buying to the US accounts just long enough for me to snag some of these fire sale bonds.  Ah well, probably better this way, the whole thing could collapse for all I know.

[moribana]

well, it seems people are starting to lose faith in LR, why else would they sell for such a low amount.. I hope we will have the last laugh...lets hope...

Yeah it does seem that way.  Anyone tracking whether it's one or two big fish or a lot of small bond holders?  I wish bitfunder would open up buying to the US accounts just long enough for me to snag some of these fire sale bonds.  Ah well, probably better this way, the whole thing could collapse for all I know.

Exactly one person selling a lot.

[ksenter]

well, it seems people are starting to lose faith in LR, why else would they sell for such a low amount.. I hope we will have the last laugh...lets hope...

Yeah it does seem that way.  Anyone tracking whether it's one or two big fish or a lot of small bond holders?  I wish bitfunder would open up buying to the US accounts just long enough for me to snag some of these fire sale bonds.  Ah well, probably better this way, the whole thing could collapse for all I know.

Exactly one person selling a lot.

Thanks!  Their loss, hopefully...

[||bit]

well, it seems people are starting to lose faith in LR, why else would they sell for such a low amount.. I hope we will have the last laugh...lets hope...

I think if he can keep it mostly on track and bitcoin value does not decline, then there should be at least a consistent flat return (measured in fiat) for the next year. I'm betting it can generate about $0.80 in value of bitcoins per bond per month. And then the trick is sustainability. If LR's not investing in hardware wisely, then you can be pretty sure you will see a decay in dividends & bond value. My concern has always been the 25% re-investment plan (which isn't near 25% when you take out costs and fee's). That doesn't seem like enough. This is why when new hardware is received he will probably need to make it normal to commit the first two weeks of mining solely for re-investment funds.

[bigasic]

well, it seems people are starting to lose faith in LR, why else would they sell for such a low amount.. I hope we will have the last laugh...lets hope...

I think if he can keep it mostly on track and bitcoin value does not decline, then there should be at least a consistent flat return (measured in fiat) for the next year. I'm betting it can generate about $0.80 in value of bitcoins per bond per month. And then the trick is sustainability. If LR's not investing in hardware wisely, then you can be pretty sure you will see a decay in dividends & bond value. My concern has always been the 25% re-investment plan (which isn't near 25% when you take out costs and fee's). That doesn't seem like enough. This is why when new hardware is received he will probably need to make it normal to commit the first two weeks of mining solely for re-investment funds.

I agree, now more than ever, we need to get as much equipment as possible. Before, I was on the fence about reinvesting the dividends, but since the difficulty is skyrocketing and I dont see how else we will sustain it, reinvesting the dividends is a must I think now, more than ever..

[Bargraphics]

Guys come on!

The Hashrate skyrocketing won't be this way all the time.

Whenever a major ASIC Player releases their batch of units the Hashrate will jump, then when it does it will level off as they finish sending out the units, until the next one does it or they release another batch.

We probably won't see TOO much of a change from this difficulty to the next.

Also as we get to a higher difficulty it becomes that much harder to maintain that percentage of raise in difficulty.

KnC just released >0.5PH on the network within two weeks.

We don't have to worry about KnC releasing a ton more like that until November (and Hashfast will be releasing theirs as well then)

We might see a huge jump when they release but that's still 1 or 2 difficulty jumps away and we will be mining the whole time.

Everyone is expecting ~8PH on the network by the end of the year, that means difficulty will be somewhere around 960 Million. But you better be mining now when it is low (like Lab_Rat is doing).

[fractal02]

2 x 500 shares sell O_o

Some big players sell out..  
1000 Shares isn't nothing.

If big players start losing faith...

But i can understand.
Look in what mess we are.
New extra fee, postponing dividends, no visibility in new hardware/futur hashrate...

Even an USB Asicminer is a better deal at the moment....i'm furious.  

I bought 242 bonds at introducing price, for the moment it's only a big loss
The bonds are cheaps...but do they worth it ?

[||bit]

Guys come on!

The Hashrate skyrocketing won't be this way all the time.

Whenever a major ASIC Player releases their batch of units the Hashrate will jump, then when it does it will level off as they finish sending out the units, until the next one does it or they release another batch.

We probably won't see TOO much of a change from this difficulty to the next.

Also as we get to a higher difficulty it becomes that much harder to maintain that percentage of raise in difficulty.

KnC just released >0.5PH on the network within two weeks.

We don't have to worry about KnC releasing a ton more like that until November (and Hashfast will be releasing theirs as well then)

We might see a huge jump when they release but that's still 1 or 2 difficulty jumps away and we will be mining the whole time.

Everyone is expecting ~8PH on the network by the end of the year, that means difficulty will be somewhere around 960 Million. But you better be mining now when it is low (like Lab_Rat is doing).

I agree, but 'when?' is the question. It will eventually shift into a more linear incline - that will be a relief. And maybe even drop a little some time after that. But that linear incline still seems pretty far off. Far meaning: many months out.

Keep in mind, when you are discussing these mining hardware companies, that there are at least four major players. So, one ships a bunch, then another ships a bunch... it's hard to predict. And I doubt they are running accurate models on how to keep hardware profitable for customers (Butterfly Labs as a classic case). I don't know that they even can. The advantage of GPU's is that graphics card companies didn't have an incentive to lower the price of the GPU's. So, you hit your natural curve. Mining hardware manufacturers have an incentive to lower prices... this will keep the hardware coming online (see how that is different than the GPU era?).

[||bit]

2 x 500 shares sell O_o

Some big players sell out..  
1000 Shares isn't nothing.

If big players start losing faith...

But i can understand.
Look in what mess we are.
New extra fee, postponing dividends, no visibility in new hardware/futur hashrate...

Even an USB Asicminer is a better deal at the moment....i'm furious.  

I bought 242 bonds at introducing price, for the moment it's only a big loss
The bonds are cheaps...but do they worth it ?

Unless you have reason to think these one or two people selling a lot of shares has insider information, then don't worry about why they are selling.
These events that have happened lately - like Bitfunder - are not changes in the basic fundamentals of Labrat.

For your own health, don't be furious that you could buy USB asicminers. The stress won't add anything to your life. Besides, the reason people buy Labrat is so they don't have to do the mining themselves. Can a USB miner reboot itself when it crashes or order new hardware for you or pay the electric bill for you?  

[rustyh17]

My thought is that the lack of liquidity is the primary reason for a depressed bond value.

The US people were heavy buyers and since they can no longer buy on bitfunder, the market
has no buoyancy.

In two weeks, we have close to 30TH coming on line. Our dividends are going to jump very
substantially. I'm looking forward to finally seeing what kind of buying power LabRat was able
to muster with our investment.

The key is for LRM to set up some way to (relatively easily) buy/sell bonds through direct share
transfer. Give us some liquidity back and the bond will float once again.

[||bit]

My thought is that the lack of liquidity is the primary reason for a depressed bond value.

The US people were heavy buyers and since they can no longer buy on bitfunder, the market
has no buoyancy.

In two weeks, we have close to 30TH coming on line. Our dividends are going to jump very
substantially. I'm looking forward to finally seeing what kind of buying power LabRat was able
to muster with our investment.

The key is for LRM to set up some way to (relatively easily) buy/sell bonds through direct share
transfer. Give us some liquidity back and the bond will float once again.

I agree. The Bitfunder blocking US bids is almost certainly the main reason for the bond price being depressed.

If/when LR get's a new platform for trading, this will change. Especially, if it works at least as well as Bitfunders platform - the less clumsy the better.

Like I said before, I think there is an opportunity there for any good programmers. Make a kind of halfway decentralized trading platform. Do for trading shares/bonds/etc.. what bitcoin did for currency.

[maqifrnswa]

Unless you have reason to think these one or two people selling a lot of shares has insider information, then don't worry about why they are selling.
These events that have happened lately - like Bitfunder - are not changes in the basic fundamentals of Labrat.

what are the fundamentals of LRM? have you seen a balance sheet or income statement?

Here are the fundamentals (which aren't real fundamentals since this is based on LRM projections, not released data):
This hashrate per bond value is currently 81MH/s per bond.
Given a 75% difficulty increase per month, and no new hardware purchases: bonds are valued at BTC0.015 minus 0.025 per account

hashrate of 400 MH/s per bond
Given a 75% increase per month, and no new hardware purchases
Hashing starting in november, bonds valued at BTC0.042 minus 0.025 per account

hashrate of 700 MH/s per bond
Given a 75% increase per month, and no new hardware purchases
Hashing starting in november, bonds valued at BTC0.074 minus 0.025 per account

hashrate of 700 MH/s per bond
Given a 50% difficulty increase per month, and no new hardware purchases
Hashing starting in november, bonds valued at BTC0.11 minus 0.025 per account

to get to IPO prices, LRM has to 1) add hardware exceeding difficulty and exceeding 700 MH/s per bond with no dilution, 2) hope for < 75% per month difficulty increases, 3) drop extra dividend fees, and 4) get to full hashrate in < 1 month.

At this point, there is no evidence of these improvements happening. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that there is no evidence besides occasional "we're working on deals" comments.

This is why securities follow certain organizational rules and investors demand transparency.

[||bit]

Unless you have reason to think these one or two people selling a lot of shares has insider information, then don't worry about why they are selling.
These events that have happened lately - like Bitfunder - are not changes in the basic fundamentals of Labrat.

what are the fundamentals of LRM? have you seen a balance sheet or income statement?

Of course I'm not thinking about fundamentals in that sense of detail or transparency.  I would assume most of everyone here knew that Labrat wasn't transparent on financial data. I was making the point that there is no special new information about fundamental information - that could affect revenue - that we already know or have been told.

For example: Labrat hasn't changed any projections in the past couple weeks.  Ordered hardware has had no good or bad updates. Difficulty is going up as always expected. Bitcoin is on the incline, but still in the same ball park as it has been for the past month. So..in THAT SENSE.. fundamentals haven't really changed (much). And seeing a lot of selling doesn't mean any of these (or one's we are not aware of) have necessarily changed - which is why I made that comment.

So, if a person was happy about LRM potential, by what they knew a week ago, then I'd say there is no obvious significant changes to cause one to feel any different now about potential. They'd more likely have to form a new different opinion from the same information.

[rustyh17]

US customers, for what it is worth, you CAN purchase LRM shares on BITFUNDER if
the seller simply transfers shares to your account (prior to asset lock next week).

This would require you to pay the seller directly in BTC outside BITFUNDER, but I
did test it and you can still have transfers added to your holdings. The seller must
activate Google 2-factor, but it is not rocket science.

PM me if you are interested in buying or selling shares outside BITFUNDER until
such time as the asset is closed. This may help with liquidity somewhat.

I am volunteering to aggregate as many low quantity bond holders into one large
group and distribute dividends on a bulk basis. I honestly believe that LabRat has
his hands full with trying to run the mining business. I believe that aggregating
bonds into fewer, larger accounts will reduce the LRM fees. Once the asset is
locked, I will work with LabRat to either re-combine your share holdings with your
bitcoin address or just continue providing dividends until such time as a good method
of "trading" is established outside BITFUNDER.

Trust is, of course, a concern. LabRat and Bargraphics know me and I assume would
vouch for my integrity. My goal is simple. I want this asset to survive BITFUNDER closure
and succeed. I want to facilitate a way for LRM to continue purchasing hardware for us
on a group basis (call them bonds if you want to). There is going to be a 6 month period
of time where a lot of uncertainty is going to exist. Uncertainty leads to panic and panic
leads to asset devaluation. This is a solid asset and a solid company. It is time to do my
part to make sure it stays that way.

[drdops]

Hey guys haven't tuned in for a few days- its kind of gut wrenching  to keep looking at the value of my portfolio on bitfunder drop everyday.
Question- Is labrat paying dividends manually into our bitfunder account? has anyone received a dividend?

[rustyh17]

Hey guys haven't tuned in for a few days- its kind of gut wrenching  to keep looking at the value of my portfolio on bitfunder drop everyday.
Question- Is labrat paying dividends manually into our bitfunder account? has anyone received a dividend?

LabRat paid dividends last week to the bitcoin address tied to each account. Check your BF account and
make sure you have a valid bitcoin address set up in it.