[ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK ***NOW SHIPPING***

[Paladin69]

wonder what will happen with nov offerings. i dont think anything that's been out so far will produce roi

I agree.  And if hardware prices are drastically lowered, that will just cause more irrational buyers piling on.

This is not going to be pretty.

[Trongersoll]

wonder what will happen with nov offerings. i dont think anything that's been out so far will produce roi

I agree.  And if hardware prices are drastically lowered, that will just cause more irrational buyers piling on.

This is not going to be pretty.

If by ROI, you mean Return Over Investment, I doubt that that will ever be the case again.

[dben428]

So I guess no shipping today. Slightly disappointing, but let's hope they ship soon.

[User705]

wonder what will happen with nov offerings. i dont think anything that's been out so far will produce roi

I agree.  And if hardware prices are drastically lowered, that will just cause more irrational buyers piling on.

This is not going to be pretty.

All preorder companies are a bit screwed now.  They can't lower prices because there's orders unfulfilled and they can't sell next batch for lower prices either so they start selling out the back door or...  Anyone else got an email that's waiting for CC where they try to get $ by BTC or wire transfer by saying it will ship soon but can't tell you when that soon actually is.  LOL

[klondike_bar]

So I guess no shipping today. Slightly disappointing, but let's hope they ship soon.

today was a holiday, is it surprising that nothing took place? hopefully tomorrow we will see shipment notifications

[Paladin69]

wonder what will happen with nov offerings. i dont think anything that's been out so far will produce roi

I agree.  And if hardware prices are drastically lowered, that will just cause more irrational buyers piling on.

This is not going to be pretty.

All preorder companies are a bit screwed now.

All ASIC companies are pushing out too many chips too fast.  3600 coins per day is just not enough to spread around for the amount of money people have dumped into hardware costs.  There are too many people involved.  Too much greed by ASIC manufacturers.  And too many chips.  It would be far more wise to get refunds and buy btc directly.  The reward for mining is in the hands of the elite now.  Even people that dumped in 5-6 figures are in trouble unless they just bought chips.  You need to be capable of making your own PCB's for as cheap as possible now.

[dben428]

So I guess no shipping today. Slightly disappointing, but let's hope they ship soon.

today was a holiday, is it surprising that nothing took place? hopefully tomorrow we will see shipment notifications

I was just basing that off Dave's latest comments.

...

We will begin shipping V1 H-card-only orders on Monday. 

...

Regards
Dave

[Jutarul]

All ASIC companies are pushing out too many chips too fast.  3600 coins per day is just not enough to spread around for the amount of money people have dumped into hardware costs.  There are too many people involved.  Too much greed by ASIC manufacturers.  And too many chips.  It would be far more wise to get refunds and buy btc directly.  The reward for mining is in the hands of the elite now.  Even people that dumped in 5-6 figures are in trouble unless they just bought chips.  You need to be capable of making your own PCB's for as cheap as possible now.

The problem is not that they produce chips too fast. It's their valuation/pricing. Free market valuation of hash power tends to be above expected yield (i.e. a net loss for the miner) for two reasons:
a) Miners are taking to much risk when valuing the hash power at the "edge", i.e. close to the expected yield. Exponential rise causes slight timing and projection errors to easily cause the profitability to fluctuate between -70% - +200%.
b) Companies have an incentive to engage in mining activities to make their R&D back, which creates a vacuum for the sales and at the same time depreciates the expected yield. Just look at ghash.io. I don't know whether the size of that farm was anticipated.

The pricing scheme for hash power is the big issue here, not its yield. Given point a), failure to price correctly causes either the miner to make a huge loss or profit. This needs to change and the first companies who can create a scheme which works for miners and companies alike will be the innovators here.

A good pricing scheme has two features:
i) it removes the risk/unknowns effects of network growth projections on the profitability of mining (operational profit certainty)
ii) it instantly shows whether the miner is willing to mine for profit or for loss (declaration of intent)

Unless i) and ii) are fixed, all missed projections will cause the ASIC companies to look fraudulent, since it causes a net wealth transfer from the mining community towards the ASIC producers.

[buzzdave]

So I guess no shipping today. Slightly disappointing, but let's hope they ship soon.

today was a holiday, is it surprising that nothing took place? hopefully tomorrow we will see shipment notifications

I was just basing that off Dave's latest comments.

...

We will begin shipping V1 H-card-only orders on Monday. 

...

Regards
Dave

Sorry.  Today was a holiday, which may have affected the ability to ship.  I understand we are shipping out tomorrow...

[Paladin69]

All ASIC companies are pushing out too many chips too fast.  3600 coins per day is just not enough to spread around for the amount of money people have dumped into hardware costs.  There are too many people involved.  Too much greed by ASIC manufacturers.  And too many chips.  It would be far more wise to get refunds and buy btc directly.  The reward for mining is in the hands of the elite now.  Even people that dumped in 5-6 figures are in trouble unless they just bought chips.  You need to be capable of making your own PCB's for as cheap as possible now.

The problem is not that they produce chips too fast. It's their valuation/pricing. Free market valuation of hash power tends to be above expected yield (i.e. a net loss for the miner) for two reasons:
a) Miners are taking to much risk when valuing the hash power at the "edge", i.e. close to the expected yield. Exponential rise causes slight timing and projection errors to easily cause the profitability to fluctuate between -70% - +200%.
b) Companies have an incentive to engage in mining activities to make their R&D back, which creates a vacuum for the sales and at the same time depreciates the expected yield. Just look at ghash.io. I don't know whether the size of that farm was anticipated.

The pricing scheme for hash power is the big issue here, not its yield. Given point a), failure to price correctly causes either the miner to make a huge loss or profit. This needs to change and the first companies who can create a scheme which works for miners and companies alike will be the innovators here.

A good pricing scheme has two features:
i) it removes the risk/unknowns effects of network growth projections on the profitability of mining (operational profit certainty)
ii) it instantly shows whether the miner is willing to mine for profit or for loss (declaration of intent)

Unless i) and ii) are fixed, all missed projections will cause the ASIC companies to look fraudulent, since it causes a net wealth transfer from the mining community towards the ASIC producers.

There is no way to make it "work".

More people will pile on if you lower the price.  And this whole thing doesn't last anyway because the difficulty runs from everyone around Spring unless all companies protect the network for their customers by not shipping.  Which they won't if the competitors keep shipping, which they will.

People hanging on and hoping things will level off and calm down are in for a rude awakening and gambling with that opinion with nothing to back it up.

[Jutarul]

There is no way to make it "work".

More people will pile on if you lower the price.  

I am not talking about price, but the pricing scheme. Big difference. Indeed, with the current pricing scheme (pre-orders/projected yield), which now shows empirical evidence to cause a huge wealth transfer from the mining community to the ASIC producers, price adjustments do not work properly (unless you can convince your supplier to make up any difference to ROI). The reason is that during times of rapid network growth the profitability becomes a lottery. This suggests that over the long term the simple sales market will collapse if a viable alternative is injected into the market which leads to a more rewarding experience for miners.

[frankenmint]

There is no way to make it "work".

More people will pile on if you lower the price.  

I am not talking about price, but the pricing scheme. Big difference. Indeed, with the current pricing scheme (pre-orders/projected yield), which now shows empirical evidence to cause a huge wealth transfer from the mining community to the ASIC producers, price adjustments do not work properly (unless you can convince your supplier to make up any difference to ROI). The reason is that during times of rapid network growth the profitability becomes a lottery. This suggests that over the long term the simple sales market will collapse if a viable alternative is injected into the market which leads to a more rewarding experience for miners.

Finally a hero member with hero answers.  That was just brilliant.

[xstr8guy]

Where's https://ghash.io/ getting all of the excess TH/s from?

[spiccioli]

Where's https://ghash.io/ getting all of the excess TH/s from?

Either people who started mining on it or it growing by itself or both of these causes.

spiccioli

[xstr8guy]

Where's https://ghash.io/ getting all of the excess TH/s from?

Either people who started mining on it or it growing by itself or both of these causes.

spiccioli

Isn't GHash exclusively mining with Bitfury gear?  They seem to be growing at an astronomical rate.

[Biomech]

Where's https://ghash.io/ getting all of the excess TH/s from?

Either people who started mining on it or it growing by itself or both of these causes.

spiccioli

Isn't GHash exclusively mining with Bitfury gear?  They seem to be growing at an astronomical rate.

Well, given that Megabigpower is beginning to ship again, that would imply that Bitfury just made a whole bunch more chips. I'm sure they give themselves a bit of lead time before they sell "aftermarket' devices, so they probably were building miners while C-scape and cohorts were waiting for chips. Bifury clearly are not fools.

Of course, they could also have had a bit of money invested in KnC. Problems or not, they have shipped a fair number of units.

[Trongersoll]

Where's https://ghash.io/ getting all of the excess TH/s from?

Either people who started mining on it or it growing by itself or both of these causes.

spiccioli

Isn't GHash exclusively mining with Bitfury gear?  They seem to be growing at an astronomical rate.

No it isn't. Apparently anyone who invests in the that three letter hosting service that begins with a C gets to point their miners at it.

[skrazy]

The weekend came and went without a BTC refund for the delayed August orders. We are just a few days sort of a month waiting.

[frankenmint]

Where's https://ghash.io/ getting all of the excess TH/s from?

Either people who started mining on it or it growing by itself or both of these causes.

spiccioli

Isn't GHash exclusively mining with Bitfury gear?  They seem to be growing at an astronomical rate.

No it isn't. Apparently anyone who invests in the that three letter hosting service that begins with a C gets to point their miners at it.

Yes im responsible for a paultry 20 GH of it as my hardware points to their pools

[greaterninja]

Where's https://ghash.io/ getting all of the excess TH/s from?

Either people who started mining on it or it growing by itself or both of these causes.

spiccioli

Isn't GHash exclusively mining with Bitfury gear?  They seem to be growing at an astronomical rate.

No it isn't. Apparently anyone who invests in the that three letter hosting service that begins with a C gets to point their miners at it.

All i had to do was email the administrator of ghash.io.  Account created.   I think they prefer you have several GH/s in equipment though.