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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 865547 times)
cypherdoc
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August 09, 2013, 05:27:29 AM
 #541

yes, then don't order.

in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's.  like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury.  i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end.  so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.

i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing.  thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal.  yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production.  they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle.  they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.  

i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product.  yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.

You're not really thinking clearly. Risk is a zero sum game.  Obviously it reduces the producers risk to have a no-refunds policy.

The problem is if you reduce the risk for the producer, you increase it for the consumer.  Increasing risk means you need a higher risk/reward ratio.

If you order a KnC instead of this you're essentially paying for a "put option" that actually costs nothing if you execute it. Plus, you might actually get your unit sooner, soon enough that it'll make more then the price difference anyway.

Whereas with this you're locked in.

The risk being a chip failure, production delays, as well as (most likely) insane diff.

Just out of curiosity, does HashFast have an estimate for what they think the diff will be when they ship?

if you'd read the thread, there are provisions to protect your investment.  i don't want to talk too much about it b/c it's not my place.  i'm going to encourage them to do so very soon.

All the "provisions" are internal, which could mean they could just ignore them, or run out of money.

i disagree.  i think the risks are reduced for both parties.  risk is in the eye of the beholder.  committed customers of HashFast know the situation and will consider it not much of a risk to wait 4 mo at the end of which they can get a refund. customers jumping in and out of orders during the preorder time period increases workload and inefficiencies.  i, as a customer of KNC and Megabig, was exploiting this inefficiency for my own protection/advantage.  as i said before, companies get an inflated view of demand while customers are quick to pull the trigger.  Avalon proved this is a workable model; at least for batch 1 & 2.
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August 09, 2013, 05:34:42 AM
 #542

 Stay Away, another Avalon and Butterfly hatching their eggs.
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August 09, 2013, 05:43:06 AM
 #543

i disagree.  i think the risks are reduced for both parties.  risk is in the eye of the beholder.  committed customers of HashFast know the situation and will consider it not much of a risk to wait 4 mo at the end of which they can get a refund. customers jumping in and out of orders during the preorder time period increases workload and inefficiencies.  i, as a customer of KNC and Megabig, was exploiting this inefficiency for my own protection/advantage.  as i said before, companies get an inflated view of demand while customers are quick to pull the trigger.  Avalon proved this is a workable model; at least for batch 1 & 2.

How is that possible?  You said yourself you used the option to cancel as a way to reduce your risk with KnC and bitfury.

like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury.  i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end.

See.  Hedging means reducing risk.

You can't say that preventing people from hedging reduces their risk.  That's ridiculous.

Now if HashFast has some other plan to allow customers to hedge difficulty risk directly then of course it would be a good deal. If they said something like  "We expect the difficulty to be 200m in October.  If it's actually 2 billion you get 10x the order!" , that would be reasonable.

The problem is, the orders they are taking right now don't come with any such plan, despite the fact you say they've got one in the works.  So it would actually be a bad idea to order now, as it may not apply to them.

HashFast has already publicly committed to about 700Th/s, enough to raise the the difficulty by 50 million alone.

Quote
committed customers of HashFast know the situation and will consider it not much of a risk to wait 4 mo at the end of which they can get a refund.

You mean the lucky few who got a tour and signed an NDA?  Sure, maybe.  But that's not much of a reason for anyone who hasn't signed an NDA from either buying their products or getting shares in IceDrill.

Quote
Avalon proved this is a workable model; at least for batch 1 & 2.

You're a "paid sponsor" of HashFast and you're comparing them to Bitsyncom?

When Avalon announced products there were only two competitors, and by the time B2 rolled around one was out of business and the other was several months delayed.

Given the cost, the difficulty, and the competitors on the horizon, B1 and B2 Avalon were much better deals then HashFast is today. B1 and B2 were basically guaranteed to payoff in a month or two.

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August 09, 2013, 05:45:42 AM
 #544

Lousy exchange rate. Definitely not Fort Gox. 60.8665btc=$5,764

Yes bitpay gives a terrible exchange rate !!
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August 09, 2013, 06:53:51 AM
 #545

HashFast is an interesting and much aticipated idea but please tell precisely whats Your plan to send working product to clients at the end of October.
To me this plan looks like quite ambitious one. Slightly too ambitious? I dont see any place for errors and delays. None.

So we have known phases - please provide a list of actions with roughly dates.

To have working device we need to:

1. Design a chip : do You have final design, its valid/seems working etc.?
2. Produce Chip : ??Whats You timeline here
3. Design PCB : ??Whats You timeline here
4A. Assembly service : ??Whats You timeline here
4B. BOM - components preorder : ??Whats You timeline here
5. Create software or adapt existing one : ??Whats You timeline here
6. Design/Adapt Case : ??Whats You timeline here
7. Start shipping  : 20-30 October

Above its a quick and dirty estimation of critical minestones of which each one have many intermediate steps. Of course some of them can be done in parallel.

Please provide Your estimations. This will show us how do you approach this project.

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August 09, 2013, 07:59:18 AM
 #546

Okay great, first i love the future BTC development startups! Great! Keep the bitcoin network running, super, super!

But why the hell choose for this marketing and fabrication? I mean so many competitors these days..
And then offer 400Ghash/s for 5600.. With exspected diff of 150 mil @ Oktober if not more.. if all competitors deliver @ that time.

Again A will i ever make my ROI case? if you ask me.. "Borderline Hardware" Cool

Why not wait if DO you have the technology/company (startup) and make it beter, faster and cheaper on the end.
Like when the first Avalon batch came out. That was a killer strategy and ROI prices for the community. Make the speed 800 or 1200 for that price and announce it two weeks before shipment.
Make it killer hardware, you cant refuse.. But better sell 500 now than 5000 at the end? How many did that already?

Well i think the new Avalon chips and company strategy will be something like that anyway.. They will finish the old chip delivery (soon i hope). Go in development and than when all
is done (knc, klodikes, all other chip/development guys) are online they will come with a chip that brings an offer you cant refuse, just like batch 1/2 machines. Ghash/price ratio that is a killer..

Just my two cents..
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August 09, 2013, 08:49:47 AM
 #547

yes, then don't order.

in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's.  like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury.  i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end.  so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.

i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing.  thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal.  yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production.  they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle.  they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.  

i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product.  yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.

No refunds my a$$. We can call the FBI and Best Business Bureau at the first sign of shady practices and I can guarantee you'll get your money back. There's no hiding by avoiding CC or paypal. "Committed customers" doesn't mean stupid customers of leap of faith customers at any cost. In this country there are consumer and commerce rights. This is not in Irak o North Korea.
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August 09, 2013, 10:06:32 AM
 #548

To order or not to order, that is the question.  Huh

According to their site, "only" 455 out of 550 are available.

To be honest, I am too tired of the preorder games. I managed to get out of BFL; I have a Saturn preorder with KnC, and now this?! My first impulse was "I need to preorder it!", but then, if KnC ship, I, long with many other KnC customers will be driving the difficulty so high up that it will be a big question if HashFast's miner will pay off (not to mention give any profit) even at at its lower price tag.

I think I'll stick with KnC for now and then decide on my next move/upgrade when miners can be bought with next day delivery in sight.

My wallet has voted.

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August 09, 2013, 10:15:07 AM
 #549

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.480


Please read the above thread! That is what you get in pre order. Stay Away
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August 09, 2013, 10:25:49 AM
 #550

HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle.  they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.  

That sounds about right. As such, with an expected December delivery, this is a disappointing offering.

Buy & Hold
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August 09, 2013, 10:37:23 AM
 #551

"455 in stock" has not changed in hours.

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August 09, 2013, 11:22:26 AM
 #552

yes, then don't order.

in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's.  like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury.  i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end.  so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.

i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing.  thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal.  yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production.  they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle.  they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.  

i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product.  yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.

This does not compute. So it was ok for you to do it, lol
Isn't HashFast providing ASICs to IceDrill project?
Lets say if a customer decides to cancel their order I am sure somebody else would buy it or it can always be routed the IceDrill way.
HashFast wont be loosing any $ unless there is a special agreement for ID to buy cheaper.
So who is really getting screwed here by not taking CCs?
Keep in mind that some CCs offer price protection also if HF drops price lets say in Jan. my CC would give me a difference.

Just my 2c.

                                 
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August 09, 2013, 11:55:00 AM
 #553

yes, then don't order.

in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's.  like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury.  i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end.  so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.

i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing.  thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal.  yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production.  they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle.  they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.  

i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product.  yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.

This does not compute. So it was ok for you to do it, lol
Isn't HashFast providing ASICs to IceDrill project?
Lets say if a customer decides to cancel their order I am sure somebody else would buy it or it can always be routed the IceDrill way.
HashFast wont be loosing any $ unless there is a special agreement for ID to buy cheaper.
So who is really getting screwed here by not taking CCs?
Keep in mind that some CCs offer price protection also if HF drops price lets say in Jan. my CC would give me a difference.

Just my 2c.

I may be one of the crazy btc-ers here, but the machine is going to make BTC.  I am fine with them charging in BTC.  My prior asic miner orders have been made in BTC, and I have been careful about who I order from. I am taking a risk, but this is BTC-land.  If there is no risk then there is definitely no ROI.  You want to live in the non-BTC land, go shop at walmart and best buy with your creditcard/fiat and buy GPUs.  I am going to need a Baby-Jet to make 60BTC in its lifetime.  It is quite simple.  

Yes, I would like it to be cheaper.  I want it to shoot rainbows and unicorns and swords that shoot lasers.  But its pricing is in-line if a bit cheaper than everything that is scheduled to come onto the market around the same time.  I am hedging my other BTC investments with an investment HashFast.  If they truly are going to provide weekly updates and regular communication, frankly that in an of itself is worth the cost after my Avalon orders.  Everyone who has met with them has been impressed and convinced.  Maybe they have super-strong Kool-aid in San Jose, but the old days of scammers with no intention of delivering (cedartec?) are quickly exposed.  I believe that HashFast (and the Bitfury folks) are trying in good faith to create a products that customers will benefit from owning.

If they deliver when expected, those folks who took the risk will get a the same ROI as other projects delivering in October.  If they don't deliver as expected, then those customers will make a negative ROI.  Again quite simple.  Those taking the risk are gambling that bet.

Edit: just because a company takes BTC doesn't mean that they can't offer refunds/compensation.  It just means that the customer isn't in control of how that compensation/refund is given. I maybe an idealist, but I believe that if the HashFast product isn't viable, there will some kind of compensation for those who took the bet.  Heck, even Avalon has offered some refunds (though still in the process, I have confidence they will deliver on that promise)

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August 09, 2013, 12:07:54 PM
 #554

Code:
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 103809024 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 11018523 bytes) in /nfs/c08/h04/mnt/171515/domains/hashfast.com/html/wp-includes/wp-db.php on line 880

Err.. I was just asking for shipping price.. does that take 103Mb?? Tongue

Might want to tell php to drop the public errors though...

EDIT: Still doesn't work.. Whats shipping costs to Europe? And will you be offering any hosting options?

Also, will fasthash miners come with valid certifications (CE / FCC) to prevent it from being stuck at customs like some BFL customers unfortunately noticed..?

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August 09, 2013, 12:42:05 PM
 #555

Code:
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 103809024 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 11018523 bytes) in /nfs/c08/h04/mnt/171515/domains/hashfast.com/html/wp-includes/wp-db.php on line 880

Err.. I was just asking for shipping price.. does that take 103Mb?? Tongue


Doesn't work for me either. Looks like they may need to upgrade their hosting plan... CloudFlare hosted? If so, only $200/month for 100% uptime guarantee with business plan.

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August 09, 2013, 12:48:00 PM
 #556

Code:
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 103809024 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 11018523 bytes) in /nfs/c08/h04/mnt/171515/domains/hashfast.com/html/wp-includes/wp-db.php on line 880

Err.. I was just asking for shipping price.. does that take 103Mb?? Tongue


Doesn't work for me either. Looks like they may need to upgrade their hosting plan... CloudFlare hosted? If so, only $200/month for 100% uptime guarantee with business plan.

2 600 000 usd to preorder....
Shop made on wordpress by total amateur...

Come on guys lol.

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August 09, 2013, 01:03:36 PM
 #557

getting the same error here from their website
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August 09, 2013, 01:08:39 PM
 #558

yes, then don't order.

in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's.  like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury.  i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end.  so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.

i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing.  thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal.  yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production.  they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle.  they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.  

i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product.  yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.

That's fraud you've just publicly admitted to, I hope you realise that. I've been telling people to use card so they are protected, not manipulate the financial standing of companies and their anticipated cash flow to hedge bets.

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August 09, 2013, 01:16:15 PM
 #559

there are so many red flags in this offering.

If you look at the first couple pages, you will see a mysterious twitter account was closed. No explanation.

Private policy that sounded like you are opting in to a marketing list.

Amateurish mailing list. Such as (Hello! New entry was published on Hash Fast. Visit it by following next link: Privacy Policy Regards, Hash Fast team. )

Now wouldn't you send out a short email with the privacy policy information instead of 10 words and a link. You know, be kind of professional about it?

An offering for 500K by some partner. For some great deal, lol.

Shipping costs to the US $600. Knc miner charged $138.

Payment only in BTC, no CC's.

Lack of specifics, but more information will be released soon. Shouldn't you have all the information ready right now when you're selling a product?

I'm sure I missed the few things. But that's a pretty good summary.


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Bitrated user: Vagnavs.
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August 09, 2013, 01:32:58 PM
 #560

there are so many red flags in this offering.

If you look at the first couple pages, you will see a mysterious twitter account was closed. No explanation.

Private policy that sounded like you are opting in to a marketing list.

Amateurish mailing list. Such as (Hello! New entry was published on Hash Fast. Visit it by following next link: Privacy Policy Regards, Hash Fast team. )

Now wouldn't you send out a short email with the privacy policy information instead of 10 words and a link. You know, be kind of professional about it?

An offering for 500K by some partner. For some great deal, lol.

Shipping costs to the US $600. Knc miner charged $138.

Payment only in BTC, no CC's.

Lack of specifics, but more information will be released soon. Shouldn't you have all the information ready right now when you're selling a product?

I'm sure I missed the few things. But that's a pretty good summary.

You've got to be kidding me. wow

                                 
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