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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 865111 times)
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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October 14, 2013, 05:23:11 PM
 #1361

Of course IF they can be daisy chained then they certainly can be used with hubs as well.

Remember we aren't talking about USB Block Eruptor scale here.

Each module is 400 GH/s nominal.   If (and this is just an if) you are limited to only 5 daisy chained that is "only" 2 TH/s per root hub.  If you are using a PC as your host they often have more than one root hub.  In windows the device manager will show the number of root hubs.  My PC has 4 which is pretty common.  That would be 4x the daisy chain length. 

If you need more then use a hub.  Even if you are limited to less than 127 remember we are talking about 400 GH/s nominal.   If you are limited to say 60 units effectively per host (not a rPi but a real entry level PC/server) that is "only" 24 TH/s.  That is going to fill an entire server rack.  I think people looking to deploy multiples of 24 TH/s can afford one host per rack of mining hardware. Smiley
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October 14, 2013, 05:24:24 PM
 #1362

Anyway who would be stupid enough to add point of failures this way?

Well if it does work this way the advantage is ease of deployment for smaller scale systems.  For larger systems using a hub likely makes more sense.  Seems likely either would work if the host to module interface is just plain USB.  For larger systems it reduces the number of hubs.

The sierra has 3 modules per rack.  The rack is 2U high.  In theory 20 Sierras could fit in a single datacenter rack.  Thats 60 modules.   Optimally all of them will be connected to a single host to ease administration and management.  So you could run 3 USB drops to each chassis but that is a waste and since nobody makes 60 port USB hubs you are looking at multiple hubs anyways.   Another option would be to put a single 4 port hub inside each Sierra but you no have the same single point of failure.  Instead you daisy chain the 3 modules inside the Sierra together.  Then one usb drop per rack gives you connectivity for all the modules.  20 sierras + single PC/server + 20 port usb hub = 24 TH/s.

Since there is a realistic limit on how many modules can be used in a self contained (1 host, 1 chassis, 1 power supply) system I don't see daisy chain OPTION as being anything but good news.  I mean if the modules use 250W @ ~1VDC and the modules DC to DC supply is 90% efficient we are looking at ~280W @ 12VDC per mining board.   Thats 1400W for 5 modules plus the power for host, fans, and pump.  Cooling and powering 1400W in a single chassis will be a challenge.  It is unlikely one will want to try for more than that.  Beyond 5 modules it starts making sense to look into multiple "dumb" chassis connected to a mining server.
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October 14, 2013, 05:33:12 PM
 #1363

Well, there is an inconsistency in what they've written as there is 2 versus 3 modules in a BJ versus a Sierra.

Amy has assured me that the Sierra can be run by a Raspi. If not, use an old laptop.

Frankly I don't really care that much, those rPi are so cheap and small that I don't mind adding one for each module

It's just the cable mess that increases with all those power supplies...

You likely won't need to increase the number of power supplies.  Granted we haven't seen the final hardware but everything about HF statements is that they are going for "off the shelf" for everything but the "mining module".   I see no reason why you couldn't make a custom build with a large power supply (say 1600W) that connects 5 mining modules to a single host.

We are all assumming a rPi can't handle 3+ modules but lets continue to assume that is true.  There are other options.   A beagleboard runs about $50 (Beagle Bone Black) and can be viewed as a "super" Pi.  It is a step above the rPi in capabilities.  Has roughly 3x the processing power, more IO capabilities, newer ARM architecture.  If (and I stress this is just an IF) a single rPi can't handle more than 3 modules I would guesstimate that a BBB would be capable of 2x to 3x that.

For systems beyond 5 total modules IMHO it likely is better to go with a more powerful host connected to multiple mining rigs.  Put 3 or 4 modules per chassis and then connect multiple chassis to a single "powerful" (i.e. low power PC) controller.

The nice thing about using off the shelf parts is it will be possible for users who want to, to come up with innovative solutions.


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October 14, 2013, 05:47:35 PM
 #1364


The nice thing about using off the shelf parts is it will be possible for users who want to, to come up with innovative solutions.




YES...  for me that will be just utilizing the some of the MANY motherboards and SeaSonics i have sitting in the farm doing nothing right now...  I will be mining primecoin with the mobo and using cgminer to control the modules.

I think the only thing I will have to get is heatsinks.

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October 14, 2013, 09:27:38 PM
 #1365

What I think Paladin69 is trying to say is that HF has clearly showed us that is really outstanding from other asic manufactures by having nice contracts with the best factorys out there, the MPP , having the software prepared in andvance...but we are really close to what they marked as "time to ship" the units and we still havent seen any photo. Not the case, not the pcbs, not even any other part as the cooling solution that they have been simulating with. For the moment as a customer I  want to believe

I saw what you wrote earlier so I screamed at them earlier today. They promised me they will have pictures for you soon.

I'm surprised more haven't been screaming for actual photos since you're close to Oct 20th.

We are not screaming for actual photos because we are not KnC FUD-spreaders like you and Puppet. Anyone can click on the "last posts" in the profiles of both of you and see that you are heavily shilling for KnC in their thread, and came here to spread FUD. Unlike KnC who are assembling their products in empty warehouse, HashFast has contracted the factory which will assemble and deliver all 500 batch #1 machines in half a day. Since they have 1200 units capacity a day, they will be probably be over with batch #2 on the first day of production before going home for dinner. Have KnC assembled their batch #1 now, two weeks later? I thought so. Since HF stated it will take 5 days from receiving chips to production day, it makes no sense to ask for pictures of chips since they aren't any, they should be in HF headquarters on 26-27th October for delivery to be in October. Asking for photos before that date makes no sense.

I am a KnC customer but I'm not really a fan of anyone.  I haven't exactly been posting cheerful things in the KnC thread either...I have a bad board in a Jupiter and am having problems reaching customer service.  Call me a FUD'er if you want, but I am just trying to wake people up to the realization that the difficulty is going to run away from everyone.  Nobody here will be happy.  MPP won't mean squat when they deliver so late.  The difficulty is going to be 3-4 billion by April.  I only like KnC a bit more because they offer refunds.  I'm not sure if that is true with HashFast.

Good luck.
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October 14, 2013, 09:29:30 PM
 #1366

Anyway who would be stupid enough to add point of failures this way?
Since there is a realistic limit on how many modules can be used in a self contained (1 host, 1 chassis, 1 power supply) system I don't see daisy chain OPTION as being anything but good news. [cut]
You made a load of good points, and i have to agree with you. However (taking sierras as examples) i would discourage anyone from setting up a daisy chain between a rack of 20 sierras (there won't be many datacenter providing 30kw per rack, anyway). Having 20 cables from the control unit to the controller of the sierra, that is daisy chained to the other 2 board on the same sierra, makes sense.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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October 14, 2013, 09:35:48 PM
 #1367

don't go out and buy a bunch of Raspis.  you may need far less than even i anticipated.

I have a box of 50 sitting behind me, we use them in all sorts of projects, they are dirt cheap and easily available


but we'll probably end use using PCEngines APU boards... much more umphf
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October 14, 2013, 11:37:11 PM
 #1368

I am a KnC customer but I'm not really a fan of anyone.  I haven't exactly been posting cheerful things in the KnC thread either...I have a bad board in a Jupiter and am having problems reaching customer service.  Call me a FUD'er if you want, but I am just trying to wake people up to the realization that the difficulty is going to run away from everyone.  Nobody here will be happy.  MPP won't mean squat when they deliver so late.  The difficulty is going to be 3-4 billion by April.  I only like KnC a bit more because they offer refunds.  I'm not sure if that is true with HashFast.

Good luck.

Ok, fair statement. If you are not HF customer there's no need to red-alert everyone, we already know that every week is crucial. HF already announced that chip shipment may be a week late, which may mean the difference between positive or negative ROI. Does MPP protection program "means squat" as you put it, or not, remains to be seen. I've chosen HF only because of that unique offer, and probably many others did that also. We'll see in the end who made a mistake, but demanding photos of something that is known not to exist and generating pressure will bring nothing but FUD and spam. Let's give them a benefit of a doubt till the end of the month and promised delivery.
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October 14, 2013, 11:54:39 PM
 #1369

I am a KnC customer but I'm not really a fan of anyone.  I haven't exactly been posting cheerful things in the KnC thread either...I have a bad board in a Jupiter and am having problems reaching customer service.  Call me a FUD'er if you want, but I am just trying to wake people up to the realization that the difficulty is going to run away from everyone.  Nobody here will be happy.  MPP won't mean squat when they deliver so late.  The difficulty is going to be 3-4 billion by April.  I only like KnC a bit more because they offer refunds.  I'm not sure if that is true with HashFast.

Good luck.

Ok, fair statement. If you are not HF customer there's no need to red-alert everyone, we already know that every week is crucial. HF already announced that chip shipment may be a week late, which may mean the difference between positive or negative ROI. Does MPP protection program "means squat" as you put it, or not, remains to be seen. I've chosen HF only because of that unique offer, and probably many others did that also. We'll see in the end who made a mistake, but demanding photos of something that is known not to exist and generating pressure will bring nothing but FUD and spam. Let's give them a benefit of a doubt till the end of the month and promised delivery.

you mean you don't want this thread to go to 700 800 pages like the KNC one??  Be thankful we got all the BFL refugees to spare you from their mental breakdowns

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October 14, 2013, 11:56:30 PM
 #1370

don't go out and buy a bunch of Raspis.  you may need far less than even i anticipated.

The most recent version of MinePeon also shows CPU use (in advanced view). I think on my rPi it was ~10% for my 30GH/s BFL unit. If you are on a pool I guess it is mainly a question of setting the difficulty for shares at the appropriate level. The rPi will probably do fine driving multiple HF units simultaneously.
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Gerald Davis


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October 15, 2013, 01:56:56 AM
 #1371

I only like KnC a bit more because they offer refunds.  I'm not sure if that is true with HashFast.

KNC "offered" refunds and then refused to honor that agreement in the end.
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October 15, 2013, 03:54:32 AM
 #1372

How is Hashfast going to handle batch 2 and batch 3 orders? Is there going to be a forced waiting period after they ship all of batch 1 or are they going to start shipping batch 2 right after they finish batch 1?
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October 15, 2013, 04:00:30 AM
 #1373

I only like KnC a bit more because they offer refunds.  I'm not sure if that is true with HashFast.

KNC "offered" refunds and then refused to honor that agreement in the end.

That is because orders went into production.  You can still get a refund for November.
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October 15, 2013, 06:06:22 AM
 #1374

Ok, fair statement. If you are not HF customer there's no need to red-alert everyone, we already know that every week is crucial. HF already announced that chip shipment may be a week late, which may mean the difference between positive or negative ROI. Does MPP protection program "means squat" as you put it, or not, remains to be seen. I've chosen HF only because of that unique offer, and probably many others did that also. We'll see in the end who made a mistake, but demanding photos of something that is known not to exist and generating pressure will bring nothing but FUD and spam. Let's give them a benefit of a doubt till the end of the month and promised delivery.

At least in my case if you read closely I am not demanding photos of the chips, as demanding photos of something that HF don't even have will make no sense. Indeed I just wanted to see photos of the rest of the components to make sure they are ready when they receive the chips. Anyway as a HF customer I deserve them the best so considering myself a spam will make no sense. Any potentiall HF customer that enters their thread or their web page and sees photos of all their components in the factory ready to fill the first batch will convince them more than just words. Again, now we just can wait and deserve HF the best



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October 15, 2013, 06:33:21 AM
 #1375

I only like KnC a bit more because they offer refunds.  I'm not sure if that is true with HashFast.

KNC "offered" refunds and then refused to honor that agreement in the end.

That is because orders went into production.  You can still get a refund for November.
I got my miner from KNC only a week late and under speeds listed on website but still much higher than when ordered so I'm not a KNC hater by any means, however the fact is they did state that refunds were available up until your miner shipped.  Like DT said they didn't honor that agreement in the end.  I appreciate what KNC did and yes their performance even if it gets worse will almost certainly be stellar compared to Avalon or BFL however they still left plenty to be desired.
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October 15, 2013, 06:38:10 AM
 #1376

Wait.. there's no HashFast chips and they ship in 5 days?

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October 15, 2013, 06:56:00 AM
 #1377

Wait.. there's no HashFast chips and they ship in 5 days?

The original date they gave was the end of October, so around the 30th. It was later that they moved the date further ahead of that date. So, I am not worried as long as they meet that original deadline.
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October 15, 2013, 07:58:56 AM
 #1378

At least in my case if you read closely I am not demanding photos of the chips, as demanding photos of something that HF don't even have will make no sense. Indeed I just wanted to see photos of the rest of the components to make sure they are ready when they receive the chips. Anyway as a HF customer I deserve them the best so considering myself a spam will make no sense. Any potentiall HF customer that enters their thread or their web page and sees photos of all their components in the factory ready to fill the first batch will convince them more than just words. Again, now we just can wait and deserve HF the best

Oh great, now we are at the 'demanding' stage? We deserve?

Let's take BFL's example in Feb this year, publish a bunch of pictures of a warehouse filled with empty cases with fans and fly in a few competing mining software developers and then still fail to deliver?

The reality is that as a customer, I can only sit back and wait with my fingers crossed.
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October 15, 2013, 08:58:03 AM
 #1379

Oh great, now we are at the 'demanding' stage? We deserve?

Let's take BFL's example in Feb this year, publish a bunch of pictures of a warehouse filled with empty cases with fans and fly in a few competing mining software developers and then still fail to deliver?

The reality is that as a customer, I can only sit back and wait with my fingers crossed.

Sorry, I may have not explained my self too clear as my English is not the best.  I just wanted to say that I wish the best to HF, nothing else.
All the reason with the BFL case and yes , there is nothing a customer can do now apart from waiting for incoming news



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October 15, 2013, 10:31:54 PM
 #1380

I only like KnC a bit more because they offer refunds.  I'm not sure if that is true with HashFast.

KNC "offered" refunds and then refused to honor that agreement in the end.

That is because orders went into production.  You can still get a refund for November.

Yeah come on.  The promise to customers is they could cancel up to the day THEIR ORDER ships.   Some people tried to cancel on the first and were told orders can't be cancelled and it is now 15 days later and they haven't received hardware.  Any way you shake it the promise to cancel ended up being utterly worthless.   They promised one thing and at the last minute changed the terms.  I mean by your logic BFL is A+ business as well.  Production began back in last November so obviously they can't allow any cancellations right?
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