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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 864810 times)
perezoso
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October 19, 2013, 04:01:55 AM
 #1481

All of this is moot however if there are significant delays. The network difficulty is rising with 40% every 2 weeks now. Perhaps the 3 month MPP timer should kick in at the original announced shipping date set at 0 BTC until delivery? This would provide an incentive to prevent further delays.

I think they already have plenty of incentive to avoid delays, and I will continue to give HashFast the benefit of the doubt until any major promises aren't kept.

If it ever came to a point where ROI + a reasonable return cannot be delivered within the MPP's 400% clause, then I'd say the more workable fix would be to raise the ceiling on the MPP to provide whatever hashing power is necessary to recoup customer investment (especially early customers), including consideration for unavoidable customer costs (i.e. electricity and, for MPP miniboards, cases, power supplies, etc).

In other words, for customers that buy the MPP, and after taking into account reasonable customer expenses, if in order to achieve profitability it ultimately requires five, six, seven, or more additional ASICS, rather than the current MPP pledge of one to four ASICs, then I hope that HashFast is willing to go that extra mile.

After all, HashFast says that "We want our customers to succeed", and that "prosperous customers make for a healthy and prosperous company". A customer that fails to achieve ROI clearly is not succeeding nor engaged in a prosperous business.

But before going down that road, you've got to give HashFast a chance to deliver.  And I am encouraged that they will.


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Syke
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October 19, 2013, 04:24:15 AM
 #1482

If it ever came to a point where ROI + a reasonable return cannot be delivered within the MPP's 400% clause, then I'd say the more workable fix would be to raise the ceiling on the MPP to provide whatever hashing power is necessary to recoup customer investment (especially early customers), including consideration for unavoidable customer costs (i.e. electricity and, for MPP miniboards, cases, power supplies, etc).

It's highly unlikely that the up to 400% MPP will make a difference. You might get 100%, but that hashrate 3+ months in the future are worth about 1/10th the starting rate. So the MPP is worth a boost of about 10%. Hardly going to make the difference in ROI.

Buy & Hold
DPoS
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October 19, 2013, 04:55:17 AM
 #1483

Where are the chips?

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October 19, 2013, 06:21:22 AM
 #1484

My point is that any delay in shipping also means a delay for MPP as it is currently tied to the delivery date of the Batch 1 unit. So if HF ships 4 weeks late, your MPP modules will also arrive 4 weeks later. That will significantly impact your ability to earn back your investment cost.
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October 19, 2013, 06:25:51 AM
 #1485

My point is that any delay in shipping also means a delay for MPP as it is currently tied to the delivery date of the Batch 1 unit. So if HF ships 4 weeks late, your MPP modules will also arrive 4 weeks later. That will significantly impact your ability to earn back your investment cost.

Having the MPP 'oasis' date being Nov 1 would be very fair, at least we would be able to count on the extra miniboards near feb 1.

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pwnyboy
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October 19, 2013, 10:57:15 AM
 #1486

wow, didn't even read this

---
San Francisco, CA (PRWEB) October 18, 2013

Sea Sonic Electronics Co. Ltd (‘Sea Sonic’) and HashFast Technologies LLC (‘HashFast’) announced today that they have signed an agreement for Sea Sonic to produce power supplies for HashFast’s Bitcoin mining systems.
---

to produce? Two days before delivery of the finished product? Another rocket/bullet run? Sorry, but lol?



Dun dun dun!  It seems we now know what Amy meant by:



Quote from: Amy Woodward
And, as of a few days ago, ... ...  it looks like we're probably going to slip, by about a week.

Ironically, not because of the silicon, even though that is the part of the system that takes the longest to manufacture. That's going through the foundry smoothly. But we ran into a delay sourcing one of our other components.

We've now found an alternative source. But that delay means it'll be challenging for us to ship finished systems before the end of October.

It's disappointing, but unfortunately these things happen. I'm glad we've made it this far through the process, and are still so close to our target date.



That sounds like a good reason for Hashfast to sell individual mining boards only, and let their customers worry about the rest.

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October 19, 2013, 11:03:18 AM
 #1487

That sounds like a good reason for Hashfast to sell individual mining boards only, and let their customers worry about the rest.
I'm quite sure that this mysterious component is inside the mining boards, if it where not, they would just ship us the mining board on time, they are too precious and we call all put together a power and cooling system somehow.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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October 19, 2013, 11:06:05 AM
 #1488

Now that they've been called out, we'll never know.
DeathAndTaxes
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October 19, 2013, 07:16:00 PM
 #1489

My point is that any delay in shipping also means a delay for MPP as it is currently tied to the delivery date of the Batch 1 unit. So if HF ships 4 weeks late, your MPP modules will also arrive 4 weeks later. That will significantly impact your ability to earn back your investment cost.

Having the MPP 'oasis' date being Nov 1 would be very fair, at least we would be able to count on the extra miniboards near feb 1.

Hashfast can we get an official word on this?  While not stated in the original MPP terms if shipment is delayed it would provide some partial assurance if that event doesn't also delay the MPP.  Can the company consider having the 90 day window for MPP begin 1 Nov regardless of actual unit shipment date (with computed return towards break even beginning based on actual shipment date).  Just one way HashFast can show they are the professional choice.
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October 19, 2013, 07:24:44 PM
 #1490

My point is that any delay in shipping also means a delay for MPP as it is currently tied to the delivery date of the Batch 1 unit. So if HF ships 4 weeks late, your MPP modules will also arrive 4 weeks later. That will significantly impact your ability to earn back your investment cost.

Having the MPP 'oasis' date being Nov 1 would be very fair, at least we would be able to count on the extra miniboards near feb 1.

Hashfast can we get an official word on this?  While not stated in the original MPP terms if shipment is delayed it would provide some partial assurance if that event doesn't also delay the MPP.  Can the company consider having the 90 day window for MPP begin 1 Nov regardless of actual unit shipment date (with computed return towards break even beginning based on actual shipment date).  Just one way HashFast can show they are the professional choice.

In situation where mining income is reduced 40% every 10 days, there's only one way to say "we apologize" for being a week late: MPP starts November 1st. It's not our fault HF doesn't deliver in October as promised, he whose fault it is should at least compensate that way.
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October 19, 2013, 07:34:42 PM
 #1491

My point is that any delay in shipping also means a delay for MPP as it is currently tied to the delivery date of the Batch 1 unit. So if HF ships 4 weeks late, your MPP modules will also arrive 4 weeks later. That will significantly impact your ability to earn back your investment cost.

Having the MPP 'oasis' date being Nov 1 would be very fair, at least we would be able to count on the extra miniboards near feb 1.

Hashfast can we get an official word on this?  While not stated in the original MPP terms if shipment is delayed it would provide some partial assurance if that event doesn't also delay the MPP.  Can the company consider having the 90 day window for MPP begin 1 Nov regardless of actual unit shipment date (with computed return towards break even beginning based on actual shipment date).  Just one way HashFast can show they are the professional choice.

In situation where mining income is reduced 40% every 10 days, there's only one way to say "we apologize" for being a week late: MPP starts November 1st. It's not our fault HF doesn't deliver in October as promised, he whose fault it is should at least compensate that way.

The Terms of Sale you have agreed to ( https://hashfast.com/checkout/terms-of-sale/ )

In particular:

"(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013"

"(b) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 2. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s second production batch are guaranteed for delivery by February 28, 2014."

You're welcome. Smiley
itod
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October 19, 2013, 07:41:34 PM
 #1492

The Terms of Sale you have agreed to ( https://hashfast.com/checkout/terms-of-sale/ )

In particular:

"(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013"

"(b) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 2. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s second production batch are guaranteed for delivery by February 28, 2014."

You're welcome. Smiley

Thank you for misinterpreting the point of that article 3(a). It concerns refunds, complete quote:

Quote
3. DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.
(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. To avail itself of this remedy, Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast, and in any case before March 31, 2014.

The delivery date, which was part of product description, is end of October. It's the most important specification of the product together with hashrate. HF never denied that.
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October 19, 2013, 07:50:47 PM
 #1493

The Terms of Sale you have agreed to ( https://hashfast.com/checkout/terms-of-sale/ )

In particular:

"(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013"

"(b) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 2. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s second production batch are guaranteed for delivery by February 28, 2014."

You're welcome. Smiley

Thank you for misinterpreting the point of that article 3(a). It concerns refunds, complete quote:

Quote
3. DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.
(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. To avail itself of this remedy, Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast, and in any case before March 31, 2014.

The delivery date, which was part of product description, is end of October. It's the most important specification of the product together with hashrate. HF never denied that.

I'm not sorry to say, but you're wrong.  The wording is clear and explicit.  First batch is guaranteed to be delivered by December 31.

If HasFast has made guarantees which supersede the quoted text, sauce pl0x.

Time to start reading (and understanding) stuff you agree to, no?
paranoidx
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October 19, 2013, 09:56:06 PM
 #1494

Difficulty is now estimated at 315,000,000.
We can no longer ROI in 90 days with 400 gh/s.
Biffa
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October 19, 2013, 10:38:56 PM
 #1495

Higher cost and lower quality? Doubtful. While Seasonic makes excellent power supplies, there are many other companies that do the same.
Even if Seasonic itself was exclusive, you could just go buy these and call it a day.

You do realise that the XFX PSU you linked to is actually a rebadged Seasonic X-Series KM3 unit? In fact most of the high end (up to 1000W) Gold and platinum PSU's from various companies are made for those companies by Seasonic including the latest models within Corsair’s AX series.


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October 19, 2013, 10:59:17 PM
 #1496

Difficulty is now estimated at 315,000,000.
We can no longer ROI in 90 days with 400 gh/s.

yes, now you cannot get ROI at all without MPP. Be interesting to see how that plays out.


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cypherdoc
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October 20, 2013, 02:12:28 AM
 #1497

I'm at a BTC meetup in Sunnyvale, where the Hashfast VP of Engineering is giving a talk right now.

This is admittedly rather time-sensitive, but if anyone has any questions, I'll be happy to ask 'em!

Ask if they're still on schedule for shipping next week.

Not surprisingly, this was indeed one of the questions that came up last night.

And, as of a few days ago, ... ...  it looks like we're probably going to slip, by about a week.

Ironically, not because of the silicon, even though that is the part of the system that takes the longest to manufacture. That's going through the foundry smoothly. But we ran into a delay sourcing one of our other components.
...

So you got the chips today?  It's the 17th, your projected date for getting the chips from TSMC?  Am i misremembering?  

Trolls are funny.

This is what, the eighth time you've posted this hour? The eighth time in one hour you repeat what you hope is an embarrassing question?

The process at the foundry is going well. Someone posted an optimistic date, one I personally did not approve of nor condone. (Sorry, cypherdoc.)

And I cannot give any other dates for the foundry. I can tell you when they pop out of the oven, nothing sooner.

But honestly the foundry is not important, because that is not what will ultimately delay us. That delayed component is what is pushing our date out. Funny that you harp on the foundry when you could be harping on delayed shipping instead.

I do wonder - what else is going on today, that these repeated 'embarrassing' posts are supposed to distract us from?

Amy

.... Who is somewhat regretting her decision to hang out on the forums this afternoon.

P.S. If people DO have other questions about HashFast, please feel free to send them my way.



just to clarify this, Eduardo CEO ok'd me releasing this Oct 17 date.  unfortunately, it represented the earliest, most optimistic date of the estimated window and it turns out this wasn't met.
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October 20, 2013, 02:45:41 AM
 #1498

Higher cost and lower quality? Doubtful. While Seasonic makes excellent power supplies, there are many other companies that do the same.
Even if Seasonic itself was exclusive, you could just go buy these and call it a day.

You do realise that the XFX PSU you linked to is actually a rebadged Seasonic X-Series KM3 unit? In fact most of the high end (up to 1000W) Gold and platinum PSU's from various companies are made for those companies by Seasonic including the latest models within Corsair’s AX series.

Yes, I do realize that. It was the exact reason I posted it. If for some reason Cointerra doesn't want to purchase one of the other excellent power supplies out there and really, really wants the same PSU as Hashfast, they could just do so from another vendor. Not that it's likely that HashFast has any exclusivity deal as cypherdoc was implying, but even if so that deal would be effectively useless.
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October 20, 2013, 04:23:50 AM
 #1499

Higher cost and lower quality? Doubtful. While Seasonic makes excellent power supplies, there are many other companies that do the same.
Even if Seasonic itself was exclusive, you could just go buy these and call it a day.

You do realise that the XFX PSU you linked to is actually a rebadged Seasonic X-Series KM3 unit? In fact most of the high end (up to 1000W) Gold and platinum PSU's from various companies are made for those companies by Seasonic including the latest models within Corsair’s AX series.

Yes, I do realize that. It was the exact reason I posted it. If for some reason Cointerra doesn't want to purchase one of the other excellent power supplies out there and really, really wants the same PSU as Hashfast, they could just do so from another vendor. Not that it's likely that HashFast has any exclusivity deal as cypherdoc was implying, but even if so that deal would be effectively useless.

i've clarified that it is not an exclusive.
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October 20, 2013, 05:50:42 AM
 #1500

Hashfast's original date of delivery was September 30th, so this does not come as a shock to me that there is some delay. I think it would be good that you guys get your MPP; however, they probably didn't order enough chips to fulfill that right now. They get their chips on a schedule of 3-4 weeks apart.

No one is mining for profit anymore. We are mining just to mine. If you want ROI, then sell your miner on ebay right after you get it. There are many people who would buy it just to mine.
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