WTF Avalon? Ship the Chips!

[User705]

BitSynCom is a USA corporation, incorporated in the state of Nevada.

I don't see that entity on the website.  Possibly that was deliberate.  Is it listed once you do an account or order with them?  You can't lien or attach BTC but does the company have any assets in the US that could be frozen by lis pendens?  Since yufu is in the US the easiest route would be to serve him personally.  He might have been deliberate in publicly stating he doesn't control the BTC sent in but you might be able to depose him under oath to get some answers but the process is very long for that if he fights it.

[gtlz]

BitSynCom is a USA corporation, incorporated in the state of Nevada.

I don't see that entity on the website.  Possibly that was deliberate.  Is it listed once you do an account or order with them?  You can't lien or attach BTC but does the company have any assets in the US that could be frozen by lis pendens?  Since yufu is in the US the easiest route would be to serve him personally.  He might have been deliberate in publicly stating he doesn't control the BTC sent in but you might be able to depose him under oath to get some answers but the process is very long for that if he fights it.

You should probably read the current render of avalon-asics.com before posting such dribble.  It clearly says copyright Bitsyncom LLC.  Not to mention, the waybackmachine records of the avalon-asics website during those orders.  It's all very clear that Yifu and Avalon were operating as a Nevada-based domestic LLC with its managing member (Yifu) residing in Brooklyn.

[pajak666]

Hmmm looks like we got sth in our hand

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/fincen-bitcoin-users-not-regulated-exchanges-are/

bitsyncom might not be an exchange but according to this regulation they are dealing with "real" money, Am I rite?

[Bitcoinorama]

Question I just want to throw out there. Yifu was spotted at the NY Inside Bitcoin conference a week ago. Just a week, and no one there asked the man straight up for a comment?! C'mon someone who attended must have some idea. Surely someone there has chips from him they were waiting on?

[gtlz]

BitSynCom is a USA corporation, incorporated in the state of Nevada.

I don't see that entity on the website.  Possibly that was deliberate.  Is it listed once you do an account or order with them?  You can't lien or attach BTC but does the company have any assets in the US that could be frozen by lis pendens?  Since yufu is in the US the easiest route would be to serve him personally.  He might have been deliberate in publicly stating he doesn't control the BTC sent in but you might be able to depose him under oath to get some answers but the process is very long for that if he fights it.

Furthermore, those of us with bitpay or other receipts for non-delivered or non-refunded Avalon products have written proof that currency was delivered to Bitsyncom, LLC.

[User705]

BitSynCom is a USA corporation, incorporated in the state of Nevada.

I don't see that entity on the website.  Possibly that was deliberate.  Is it listed once you do an account or order with them?  You can't lien or attach BTC but does the company have any assets in the US that could be frozen by lis pendens?  Since yufu is in the US the easiest route would be to serve him personally.  He might have been deliberate in publicly stating he doesn't control the BTC sent in but you might be able to depose him under oath to get some answers but the process is very long for that if he fights it.

You should probably read the current render of avalon-asics.com before posting such dribble.  It clearly says copyright Bitsyncom LLC.  Not to mention, the waybackmachine records of the avalon-asics website during those orders.  It's all very clear that Yifu and Avalon were operating as a Nevada-based domestic LLC with its managing member (Yifu) residing in Brooklyn.

I stand corrected as http://store.avalon-asics.com/ doesn't have any of that.  It's unlikely the US LLC has any assets which can be counted on for restitution but as a managing partner Yifu would certainly be exposed to US liability which actually makes it easier to get answers.  Anyone who ordered can file a suit and serve him but if he chooses to fight it by the time you get to a depo the chips might be obsolete.  Winning might require enshrining some new concepts regarding BTC as precedents as well.  You can always call SEC since they have charged Trendon Shavers aka pirateat40 recently so they seem to be willing to take this kind of stuff up.

[pajak666]

 You can always call SEC since they have charged Trendon Shavers aka pirateat40 recently so they seem to be willing to take this kind of stuff up.

+1

[gtlz]

BitSynCom is a USA corporation, incorporated in the state of Nevada.

I don't see that entity on the website.  Possibly that was deliberate.  Is it listed once you do an account or order with them?  You can't lien or attach BTC but does the company have any assets in the US that could be frozen by lis pendens?  Since yufu is in the US the easiest route would be to serve him personally.  He might have been deliberate in publicly stating he doesn't control the BTC sent in but you might be able to depose him under oath to get some answers but the process is very long for that if he fights it.

You should probably read the current render of avalon-asics.com before posting such dribble.  It clearly says copyright Bitsyncom LLC.  Not to mention, the waybackmachine records of the avalon-asics website during those orders.  It's all very clear that Yifu and Avalon were operating as a Nevada-based domestic LLC with its managing member (Yifu) residing in Brooklyn.

I stand corrected as http://store.avalon-asics.com/ doesn't have any of that.  It's unlikely the US LLC has any assets which can be counted on for restitution but as a managing partner Yifu would certainly be exposed to US liability which actually makes it easier to get answers.  Anyone who ordered can file a suit and serve him but if he chooses to fight it by the time you get to a depo the chips might be obsolete.  Winning might require enshrining some new concepts regarding BTC as precedents as well.  You can always call SEC since they have charged Trendon Shavers aka pirateat40 recently so they seem to be willing to take this kind of stuff up.

You bring up a good point; recoverability.  If sued, what's the likelihood that the plaintiffs would actually receive restitution?  Quite low.  However, this isn't just a civil matter and it isn't just a matter for the SEC (traditionally they only deal with public companies) but rather one that hits the radar of the NYAG and FTC.  The NYAG has a reputation for being incredibly tough, ever since Spitzer, and the FTC is a nightmare of its own.  In short, Yifu & Co fucked up.  They WILL have to answer in court, should they ever decide to step foot in the United States again.

To those mentioning the international aspect; this might actually draw out prosecution.  My personal take is that Yifu will be summonsed in US court on interstate fraud charges and extradited accordingly.  After all, when multiple countries want to prosecute, US almost always gets first hack at the bad guy.

The other reason why I think the SEC route is a waste of time is because Yifu wasn't directly soliciting funds to start or develop his company.  The SEC cares more the sale of equity than anything else.

[Bitcoinorama]

BitSynCom is a USA corporation, incorporated in the state of Nevada.

I don't see that entity on the website.  Possibly that was deliberate.  Is it listed once you do an account or order with them?  You can't lien or attach BTC but does the company have any assets in the US that could be frozen by lis pendens?  Since yufu is in the US the easiest route would be to serve him personally.  He might have been deliberate in publicly stating he doesn't control the BTC sent in but you might be able to depose him under oath to get some answers but the process is very long for that if he fights it.

You should probably read the current render of avalon-asics.com before posting such dribble.  It clearly says copyright Bitsyncom LLC.  Not to mention, the waybackmachine records of the avalon-asics website during those orders.  It's all very clear that Yifu and Avalon were operating as a Nevada-based domestic LLC with its managing member (Yifu) residing in Brooklyn.

I stand corrected as http://store.avalon-asics.com/ doesn't have any of that.  It's unlikely the US LLC has any assets which can be counted on for restitution but as a managing partner Yifu would certainly be exposed to US liability which actually makes it easier to get answers.  Anyone who ordered can file a suit and serve him but if he chooses to fight it by the time you get to a depo the chips might be obsolete.  Winning might require enshrining some new concepts regarding BTC as precedents as well.  You can always call SEC since they have charged Trendon Shavers aka pirateat40 recently so they seem to be willing to take this kind of stuff up.

There is more than just Yifu involved and behind Bitsyncom and contacts span multiple countries, if they don't start talking to you, you have options;


INTERPOL is the world’s largest international police organization, with 190 member countries including the US and China. Their role is to enable police around the world to work together to make the world a safer place. Their high-tech infrastructure of technical and operational support helps meet the growing challenges of fighting crime in the 21st century.

http://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas/Financial-crime/Fraud

http://www.interpol.int/Contact-INTERPOL

http://www.interpol.int/Member-countries/Asia-South-Pacific/China

http://www.interpol.int/Member-countries/Americas/United-States



"Advance fee fraud is when fraudsters target victims to make advance or upfront payments for goods, services and/or financial gains that do not materialise."

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-advance-fee-fraud

What to do if you are a victim

If you have lost money

If you believe you are a victim of advance fee fraud, the coalition members strongly encourage you to file a complaint with your local police. If you are in the United States consider filing a complaint with the Federal Beaureau of Investigation's Internet Crime Complaint Center.

http://www.affcoalition.org/victim.html


The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C).

http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx


This final link tells you how to report Internet crime that has occurred in each country including China (scroll down page for content);

http://www.consumerfraudreporting.org/reporting.php

[eve]

I have the feeling that Yifu were shipping the chips to those big guys with BIG orders outside of this forum and due to over demand he cannot meet our orders in here.

So the best way is to get your attorney or lawyer to write him a letter and goes from there.

[Stack]

I agree, surely if all groupbuy leaders sent a legal demand for their chips to be delivered. They HAVE to respond, either by shipping, or explaining themselves and how they plan to resolve the situation. If they fail to respond, than that's as good as admitting to fraud and the authorities can step in.

[pajak666]

those guys look like they are actually waiting for it
http://www.consumerfraudreporting.org/feedback.htm

not to mention that I am surprised by the friendly design of Interpol website
http://www.interpol.int/Contact-INTERPOL

I hope it will be done, they will be charged and it will be a good lesson and example for others to finally end all that pre-order rage and missed delivery times

[FUKT]

What "contract"?  Under who's jurisdiction?  What was your "valuable consideration" for this "contract" and can you prove you "paid it" and the "entity" you made this "contract" with "received it"?

Try trolling harder,
meanwhile no chips no response

Maybe someone with forum trust and reputation will start a GROUP BUY for the Chinese/USA LAWYERS and form a lawsuit?
I can do it but I live in Europe so no real point for me to do that.

Good point, but I think if people on this forums had the will and balls to do it they would have already done it to BFL

[Stack]

Good point, but I think if people on this forums had the will and balls to do it they would have already done it to BFL

I think things are different now. Being scorn TWICE will set people off, everyone has come to expect this shit from BFL, but another manufacturer trying to pull the same stunt... no way.

Also most BFL customers have very small investments, most chip buyers have very large investments...

[FUKT]

BitSynCom is a USA corporation, incorporated in the state of Nevada.

I don't see that entity on the website.  Possibly that was deliberate.  Is it listed once you do an account or order with them?  You can't lien or attach BTC but does the company have any assets in the US that could be frozen by lis pendens?  Since yufu is in the US the easiest route would be to serve him personally.  He might have been deliberate in publicly stating he doesn't control the BTC sent in but you might be able to depose him under oath to get some answers but the process is very long for that if he fights it.

You should probably read the current render of avalon-asics.com before posting such dribble.  It clearly says copyright Bitsyncom LLC.  Not to mention, the waybackmachine records of the avalon-asics website during those orders.  It's all very clear that Yifu and Avalon were operating as a Nevada-based domestic LLC with its managing member (Yifu) residing in Brooklyn.

I stand corrected as http://store.avalon-asics.com/ doesn't have any of that.  It's unlikely the US LLC has any assets which can be counted on for restitution but as a managing partner Yifu would certainly be exposed to US liability which actually makes it easier to get answers.  Anyone who ordered can file a suit and serve him but if he chooses to fight it by the time you get to a depo the chips might be obsolete.  Winning might require enshrining some new concepts regarding BTC as precedents as well.  You can always call SEC since they have charged Trendon Shavers aka pirateat40 recently so they seem to be willing to take this kind of stuff up.

You bring up a good point; recoverability.  If sued, what's the likelihood that the plaintiffs would actually receive restitution?  Quite low.  However, this isn't just a civil matter and it isn't just a matter for the SEC (traditionally they only deal with public companies) but rather one that hits the radar of the NYAG and FTC.  The NYAG has a reputation for being incredibly tough, ever since Spitzer, and the FTC is a nightmare of its own.  In short, Yifu & Co fucked up.  They WILL have to answer in court, should they ever decide to step foot in the United States again.

To those mentioning the international aspect; this might actually draw out prosecution.  My personal take is that Yifu will be summonsed in US court on interstate fraud charges and extradited accordingly.  After all, when multiple countries want to prosecute, US almost always gets first hack at the bad guy.

The other reason why I think the SEC route is a waste of time is because Yifu wasn't directly soliciting funds to start or develop his company.  The SEC cares more the sale of equity than anything else.

Interesting . . . likelihood of restitution would be low. What I think is more interesting is that with normal fraud/laundering/whatever you want to call it the paper trail (with regard to money) always ends somewhere. With bitcoins the defendant is in a even worse situation since it almost looks as if they took steps to conceal their crime, a judge in my opinion would come down very hard on someone if they were sued.

[Ytterbium]

Good point, but I think if people on this forums had the will and balls to do it they would have already done it to BFL

The value involved in individual Avalon chips is far higher then with BFL, and the Avalon terms had a definite delivery date, 10-15 weeks - as opposed to "2 months or more" with BFL.

Wouldn't surprise me to see some lawsuits filed.

[ScaryHash]

What "contract"?  Under who's jurisdiction?  What was your "valuable consideration" for this "contract" and can you prove you "paid it" and the "entity" you made this "contract" with "received it"?

Try trolling harder,
meanwhile no chips no response

Maybe someone with forum trust and reputation will start a GROUP BUY for the Chinese/USA LAWYERS and form a lawsuit?
I can do it but I live in Europe so no real point for me to do that.

Good point, but I think if people on this forums had the will and balls to do it they would have already done it to BFL

Precisely. If people have not organized and sued BFL yet, since they are still working on singles from July and August 2012, a year late, do you REALLY think anybody is going to shell out the money to get a lawyer on retainer for a chip shipment that's maybe a month late? maybe two?? Get real.

And even if somebody did, by the time they got an initial hearing would be 6 months from now, if you're lucky. What you gonna say to the judge if the chips ship in 1-3 months? You'd look like a FOOL, and then you'd be required to prove that you had REAL damages.

Judge: Explain how the defendant has caused you monetary loss, Mr. Plaintiff.

Plaintiff: Well, your honor, the rise in difficulty has made it harder to mine bitcoin, and the plaintiff has not shipped the chips in a timely manner.

Judge: What is bitcoin and how has the defendant caused you monetary damages?

At that point, you will have about 3 minutes to explain bitcoin, the rise in difficulty, how bitcoin are valuable in real currency, and why a judge with 600+ cases on his docket should award you monetary compensation.

Good luck with that.

[User705]

What about this!
https://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/06/Bitcoin.pdf
Check this quote out "Therefore, Bitcoin is a currency or form of money, and investors wishing to invest in BTCST provided an investment of money."     One precedent down.  Wonder how they'll figure out definable legal ownership of addresses.  This certainly puts a very high burden on any US operator handling bitcoins.  This ruling might imply through common enterprise liability that the group buy organizers might be liable when calling these buys "investments" and since people relied on them for their expertise well I think it's time to stop calling anything "investments" at least if you are in the good ol USA.

[Stack]

Good point, but I think if people on this forums had the will and balls to do it they would have already done it to BFL

Precisely. If people have not organized and sued BFL yet, since they are still working on singles from July and August 2012, a year late, do you REALLY think anybody is going to shell out the money to get a lawyer on retainer for a chip shipment that's maybe a month late? maybe two?? Get real.

And even if somebody did, by the time they got an initial hearing would be 6 months from now, if you're lucky. What you gonna say to the judge if the chips ship in 1-3 months? You'd look like a FOOL, and then you'd be required to prove that you had REAL damages.

Judge: Explain how the defendant has caused you monetary loss, Mr. Plaintiff.

Plaintiff: Well, your honor, the rise in difficulty has made it harder to mine bitcoin, and the plaintiff has not shipped the chips in a timely manner.

Judge: What is bitcoin and how has the defendant caused you monetary damages?

At that point, you will have about 3 minutes to explain bitcoin, the rise in difficulty, how bitcoin are valuable in real currency, and why a judge with 600+ cases on his docket should award you monetary compensation.

Good luck with that.

You're agreeing with the quote, yet you're one of the spineless people he's talking about. who are too scared to even try to take action.

[nightengale]

Judge: Explain how the defendant has caused you monetary loss, Mr. Plaintiff.

Plaintiff: Well, your honor, the rise in difficulty has made it harder to mine bitcoin, and the plaintiff has not shipped the chips in a timely manner.

Judge: What is bitcoin and how has the defendant caused you monetary damages?

At that point, you will have about 3 minutes to explain bitcoin, the rise in difficulty, how bitcoin are valuable in real currency, and why a judge with 600+ cases on his docket should award you monetary compensation.

Good luck with that.

...That's right, no court has ever taken up a complex financial, or technical concept before. It's utterly pointless. They couldn't even get OJ right.

/sarcasm