all finished

[g83]

any update on our refund ??

[piecinitup]

any update on our refund ??

Yeah, an update from Waldo about his plan to handle this would be nice.

[#BiT_pOL]

http://www.extremetech.com/uncategorized/173772-bitcoin-asic-manufacturer-hashfast-facing-lawsuits-over-alleged-false-advertising-fluctuating-bitcoin-prices

 

[#BiT_pOL]

http://www.extremetech.com/uncategorized/173772-bitcoin-asic-manufacturer-hashfast-facing-lawsuits-over-alleged-false-advertising-fluctuating-bitcoin-prices

 

the most enlightening, fair and well balanced article on the subject that I found ....

[beavertank]

I would ask that Waldo do the opposite. That's insane what you are suggesting, any refund request will be gladly accepted by HashFast, but they are the ones who dictate the amount of BTC they will send back to us. How are you going to make them pay the full amount? Who is going to pay for the lawyers?

If they send back less than the full refund, we drag them to court, or we accept the arbitration clause of their contract and go into arbitration. In any event, anyone happy to receive a small portion of their original BTC back can then bow out and sign away any rights to the outstanding BTC refund amounts to the other members of the group buy who wish to push forward, and who will ante up whatever is required to hire a lawyer.

If we do what you are suggesting (customized refund request) we are fucked! They will send partial refund and scratch us of the customers list, resell our miners to somebody else, this time without the obligation to send the MPP.

Do you really think you stand to make more mining, considering we're a good 30 days away from delivery at best, than you would in even a partial refund? Keep in mind, there is every chance that the MPP will be delivered in the same "too little too late" fashion that the miners we've already paid for seem to be coming in. And no, we would not be fucked doing what I suggested, even if they send a partial refund and scratch us off the list. We still have all kinds of legal options available to us to get the full BTC refund we're entitled to.

HashFast wants us to do what you are suggesting, and with our custom refund request we give them the document that we officially requested the refund. Are we that stupid?

We give them documentation that we requested a refund, and a refund that they didn't provide (assuming they don't pay back the full amount of BTC). The only "stupid" option is to return their premade heavily one sided refund request form that signs away all of our rights and will only ever get us back a small portion of the BTC we originally paid. But sure, insult away.

[itod]

But sure, insult away.

Sorry, my intention was not to insult, I was just scarred we my just do something not well thought of, without consulting a lawyer.

One good course of action seems to be what ninjarobot is doing, see:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4292470#msg4292470

But again, we might be in a need for legal advice.

[g83]

Nothing to report back as of yet- I've sent 2 separate emails requesting full BTC refunds for Batch 1 orders. Inquired about upgrade kit orders as well but have not had a response. Once/if I do, I'll post here.

Still no answer ? No Delivery ? Not even a transaction number ?

[floatyfish]

We should look into this:

Hi all.

 * Anybody not in Batch 1, don't read this.
 * Anybody in Batch 1 who believes that HashFast is going to do the right thing voluntary, without a gentle nudge from us, don't read this.
 * Anybody in Batch 1 who believes that the right way to deal with HashFast is to open more communication channels with them, don't read this.

For the rest of you:

I have found a lawyer who is willing to take our case, and help us get our BTC back, if we can cooperate.)

The name is Ray E. Gallo.

Please make up your minds about him; I think he is great. (85% winning percentage, and specialized in class and mass actions alleging large scale fraud.)

Some data:

http://gallo-law.com/attorneys/gallo.html
http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/94901-ca-ray-gallo-291467.html
http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/94901-ca-ray-gallo-291467/reviews.html    <= reviews
http://www.linkedin.com/in/raygallo

(Now I let you experienced Google detectives jump on him.)

  * * *

After exchanging around 100 mails with me, and analyzing all the documents and evidence with his team, he thinks we can probably win this case for Batch 1 customers who have paid in BTC. (But of course there is no guarantee.)

As you all know, class action is forbidden by the (ever-changing) Terms of Service, but (by the nature of thing) "mass action" is not, and can not be.
So we can proceed in a “mass” basis: the same attorney working with multiple clients simultaneously.

This is like a class case in that it will give us some leverage by aggregating claims so that we can do more work on the matter.
It’s different in that they can make us try (arbitrate) every case.
(Which means that individual cases might end with success or failure independently of each other, but we can optionally pool the results, if we want to reach a fair distribution at the end.)

  * * *

Since the legal costs are (usually) pretty high, this might well be the only way to go for small customers like me, who have only bought 1 or 2 units.
(It would not make any economic sense to hire a such a strong lawyer on my own, but together, we might be able to make it.)

Ray Gallo is ready to take the case on a contingent basis, so we don't have to pay up-front; his fee comes down from the money recovered from HashFast, if we win.

The key to make this work is to collect enough participants.
He said that he is willing to take the case if there are at least around 30 Baby Jet worth of customers.


Now the question is, how many of you would you willing to participate in such an arrangement? I have 1 BJ.

DISCLAIMER: I know others are also talking to other lawyers, too. I'm not saying that everybody should stop what they are doing and stop proceeding along those lines; I
am just saying that this looks like a very good opportunity to me.

Anybody who is interested, please contact him directly via his own page, which I have linked above.

The deadline is this Friday. We have to collect enough customers by then.

Best wishes:

    fenwick

[AstralWonder]

We should look into this:

Hi all.

 * Anybody not in Batch 1, don't read this.
 * Anybody in Batch 1 who believes that HashFast is going to do the right thing voluntary, without a gentle nudge from us, don't read this.
 * Anybody in Batch 1 who believes that the right way to deal with HashFast is to open more communication channels with them, don't read this.

For the rest of you:

I have found a lawyer who is willing to take our case, and help us get our BTC back, if we can cooperate.)

The name is Ray E. Gallo.

Please make up your minds about him; I think he is great. (85% winning percentage, and specialized in class and mass actions alleging large scale fraud.)

Some data:

http://gallo-law.com/attorneys/gallo.html
http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/94901-ca-ray-gallo-291467.html
http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/94901-ca-ray-gallo-291467/reviews.html    <= reviews
http://www.linkedin.com/in/raygallo

(Now I let you experienced Google detectives jump on him.)

  * * *

After exchanging around 100 mails with me, and analyzing all the documents and evidence with his team, he thinks we can probably win this case for Batch 1 customers who have paid in BTC. (But of course there is no guarantee.)

As you all know, class action is forbidden by the (ever-changing) Terms of Service, but (by the nature of thing) "mass action" is not, and can not be.
So we can proceed in a “mass” basis: the same attorney working with multiple clients simultaneously.

This is like a class case in that it will give us some leverage by aggregating claims so that we can do more work on the matter.
It’s different in that they can make us try (arbitrate) every case.
(Which means that individual cases might end with success or failure independently of each other, but we can optionally pool the results, if we want to reach a fair distribution at the end.)

  * * *

Since the legal costs are (usually) pretty high, this might well be the only way to go for small customers like me, who have only bought 1 or 2 units.
(It would not make any economic sense to hire a such a strong lawyer on my own, but together, we might be able to make it.)

Ray Gallo is ready to take the case on a contingent basis, so we don't have to pay up-front; his fee comes down from the money recovered from HashFast, if we win.

The key to make this work is to collect enough participants.
He said that he is willing to take the case if there are at least around 30 Baby Jet worth of customers.


Now the question is, how many of you would you willing to participate in such an arrangement? I have 1 BJ.

DISCLAIMER: I know others are also talking to other lawyers, too. I'm not saying that everybody should stop what they are doing and stop proceeding along those lines; I
am just saying that this looks like a very good opportunity to me.

Anybody who is interested, please contact him directly via his own page, which I have linked above.

The deadline is this Friday. We have to collect enough customers by then.

Best wishes:

    fenwick

We should take a vote on this immediately.

[itod]

We should take a vote on this immediately.

+1

[id10tothe9]

We should look into this:

i think it's a good option

[forevernoob]

How much money per share do you reckon this will cost?
Feels kinda annoying having to send additional funds. Already had to send extra for the MPP.

[paulej]

How much money per share do you reckon this will cost?
Feels kinda annoying having to send additional funds. Already had to send extra for the MPP.

Per the posting, "Ray Gallo is ready to take the case on a contingent basis".  So, it should not cost anything upfront.  Not sure what his expects to get, but I would assume it's a fixed percentage.

[forevernoob]

Ok, then I'm all positive about hiring him.
Let's wait and see what waldo has to say.

[grchris]

I am fine with going with this lawyer option as well.

[stex2009]

Oh, yes, go with this Galileo guy!

[beavertank]

Depending on his contingency percentage, I'd be ok with the linked lawyer. Anything over 25% and I'd be hesitant, anything over 33% and I decline.

[3rac3]

I say lets sue those fu****ers.

Let's join the Gallo lead suit.

I am not sure if I got that right but the worst case scenario in this case would be we get our miners after all i.e. if we now deny USD refund. Even if we loose the suit hf will have to compensate us somehow.

[g83]

I say lets sue those fu****ers.

Let's join the Gallo lead suit.

I am not sure if I got that right but the worst case scenario in this case would be we get our miners after all i.e. if we now deny USD refund. Even if we loose the suit hf will have to compensate us somehow.

the worst case is that we get nothing !

[piecinitup]

So I received an email from HashFast in the middle of the night regarding refunds.

They are fully ignoring all calls and emails from me.

The email basically stated that if we watch a refund for Batch 1 it will only be in USD and it needs to be decided by tomorrow (really?). I really hate everything about this company so I'm with whatever you guys decide. The lawyer aboves fees are 40% BTW.

At this point I'm not too sure what move to make.

Honestly I don't see how this case will win.  BTC is not considered legal tender so the court will probably rule that they have to refund the original value in USD which is already what they're offering.  Does this guy promise only to take his fee if he wins?  What is his fee if he loses?  I'm ok with whatever the majority decides, as I don't really have a big stake in this group buy to try and sway ideas but this all seems a lose lose situation.  Thank you waldo for everything you've done.