-- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?!

[miaviator]

Never have they met their own estimated timelines not even once. At this point one has to be rightly suspicious of the actual motives behind posting such inaccurate estimates.

Honestly, they could have had a delay with the coffee mug vendor?

That would hold everything up for a significant period.

I'm going to agree with you and add that never have they released their real internal estimated timelines.  BFL likely knows about a lot of the possible delays and could release the true timelines.  If they did release those worst case timelines they would clearly not be in business.  If they were not in business then whoever makes the coffee mugs would lose a very large account.  This could result in a large loss of jobs for a friend of a BFL employee.  You see it would just avalanche into higher unemployment in the end.

[Bicknellski]

Oh there is some trickle down going on here unfortunately the customers never asked for that sort of abusive treatment from BFL.

[Fiyasko]

Y'know what.... I just realised something, First off, "my bad" for not following what BFLiars says, but
What happened to the "bullet run" wafers/chips? Who has those?

[TsaktuO]

At the end of the day, we are still stuck with wanting something they have...

.. ::)So can you REALLY hate them.. : D

[dropt]

.. ::)So can you REALLY hate them.. : D

Yes.

[miaviator]

.. ::)So can you REALLY hate them.. : D

Yes.

Absolutely.  Also they don't have what you want unless (like me) you really like the coffee cups.

If BFL/HashFast/Cointerra/etc/btcolympus/etc.  actually had miners in hand we would not hate them.  It is the fact that they each and all sell things which do not exist at the time of sale and can't figure out any form of project management or customer expectation setting to make these Unicorns come to life.

[erk]

.. ::)So can you REALLY hate them.. : D

Yes.

Absolutely.  Also they don't have what you want unless (like me) you really like the coffee cups.

If BFL/HashFast/Cointerra/etc/btcolympus/etc.  actually had miners in hand we would not hate them.  It is the fact that they each and all sell things which do not exist at the time of sale and can't figure out any form of project management or customer expectation setting to make these Unicorns come to life.

BFL have 25GH/s and 230GH/s units in stock, it's just that they are the 65nm tech which people don't want anymore.

[Bicknellski]

The problem is if you actually do the numbers. The Monarch will make you less BTC than what you paid for it. If you are using USD then just buy BTC and save yourself the hassle. There really is no scenario given their 65nm debacle where you would want anything they have to offer. There are people selling miners right now off the shelf. Why would you even entertain the notion of buying from BFL? They can't even justify buying from them at the reduced prices and couple that with no guarantees they will ship 'on time' from their moving and amorphous estimates why would you even bother? If you know the reality there is no reason then to buy from BFL. BFL doesn't offer refunds ever. BFL is always late. BFL has never hit specification they have set. At this point the only people buying their product either don't know the history or are paid by BFL to promote BFL hardware. The only other alternative is they are misinformed or deluded into believing BFL will deliver as promised.

[Inaba]

I wonder where Darren "Bicknellski" Bicknells promised hardware is?  He promised to deliver it in December and here it is January and nothing... yep, certainly the guy I would take advice from.

[Bicknellski]

My guess.

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Was I right? As you know I have him on ignore.

[Unacceptable]

Well Josh,I waited OVER a year for my 1st day order from BFL,so if his product is even 6 months late...........he beat ya!!!!!! 

[Bicknellski]

Oh so it is an attack on our product development.

Let me clarify.

1. We took 0 BTC / USD from the community.
2. We set a development timeline and are admittedly a few weeks late but our members are ok with that as we want to get it right and when I invited you Inaba and Fractal and others to our design meeting you turn me down I wonder why?
3. We pay for all the development in house we don't collect coins or dollars to get our product prototypes completed.

Unlike BFL the Wasp Project Collective is not setting timelines to scam anyone, to hype product pre-sales as we are not selling finished modular miners directly to anyone. We have an open source hardware project that will be released when it is ready not before as we all agree 52 members strong we do not want to be like BFL or others taking money for an incomplete design.

Hope that helps.

-------

I suppose he didn't address any of the points with regards to BFL being late, under spec and obviously a bad choice to buy from given their RMA response time and the fact that 13 months late is not a problem for them. I have little doubt our Wasp prototypes will be working well before the Monarch and we started designing our PCB after them and have no where near the same budget. Let us compare where we are now. We already have packaged ASIC chips in hand both 55nm and 28nm, a completed PCB design and people who have the requisite skills set to achieve a positive result. BFL? No packaged chips, No PCB design except a dummy board with no traces on it, a "team" that has failed to deliver every product they have ever made on time, and to spec. If I were looking at what we have vs BFL and their Monarch then it has to be no contest we are well ahead of them at this point. The biggest difference is you can't pre-order our products and that means no one is going to lose a single satoshi if we fail unlike BFL customers who have already lost any chances of a ROI on the Monarch. Numbers don't lie but Inaba has and continues to do so.

[PuertoLibre]

My guess.

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Was I right? As you know I have him on ignore.

You sir, are an....ESPer!

[PuertoLibre]

The problem is if you actually do the numbers.

The Monarch will:

--Make you less BTC than what you paid for it.
--If you are using USD then just buy BTC and save yourself the hassle.
--There really is no scenario given their 65nm debacle where you would want anything they have to offer.

There are people selling miners right now off the shelf. Why would you even entertain the notion of buying from BFL?

They can't even justify buying from them at the reduced prices and couple that with no guarantees they will ship 'on time'. [All this] from their moving and amorphous estimates, why would you even bother? If you know the reality there is no reason then to buy from BFL:

--BFL doesn't offer refunds ever.
--BFL is always late.
--BFL has never hit specification they have set.

At this point the only people buying their product either don't know the history or are paid by BFL to promote BFL hardware. The only other alternative is they are misinformed or deluded into believing BFL will deliver as promised.

Oh so it is an attack on our product development.

Let me clarify.

1. We took 0 BTC / USD from the community.
2. We set a development timeline and are admittedly a few weeks late but our members are ok with that as we want to get it right and when I invited you Inaba and Fractal and others to our design meeting you turn me down I wonder why?
3. We pay for all the development in house we don't collect coins or dollars to get our product prototypes completed.

Unlike BFL the Wasp Project Collective is:
--Not setting timelines to scam anyone,
--[Not going] to hype product pre-sales as we are not selling finished modular miners directly to anyone.
--We have an open source hardware project that will be released when it is ready not before as we all agree 52 members strong we do not want to be like BFL or others taking money for an incomplete design.

Hope that helps.

-------

I suppose he didn't address any of the points with regards to:

--BFL being late,
--Under spec
--Obviously a bad choice to buy from given their RMA response time
--The fact that 13 months late is "not a problem" for them.

I have little doubt our Wasp prototypes will be working well before the Monarch and we started designing our PCB after them and have no where near the same budget.

Let us compare where we are now:
--We already have packaged ASIC chips in hand both 55nm and 28nm,
--A completed PCB design and people who have the requisite skills set to achieve a positive result.

BFL?:
--No packaged chips,
--No PCB design except a dummy board with no traces on it,
--A "team" that has failed to deliver every product they have ever made on time, and to spec.

If I were looking at what we have vs BFL and their Monarch then it has to be [a] no contest we are well ahead of them at this point. The biggest difference is you can't pre-order our products and that means no one is going to lose a single satoshi BTC if we fail. Unlike BFL customers who have already lost any chances of a ROI on the Monarch.


Numbers don't lie.

Modified for Readability.

You've sold me, tell me more about your product?

[Bicknellski]

We have a thread. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325181.0

I have an email.

darin.bicknell@gmail.com


----

Topic here RED FLAG on Monarch.

It just goes without saying at this point for anyone following BFL in their own forums and this forum that they at this point have no product and they missed their first estimate of shipping in October by 3 months and given they have admitted they won't make bulk shipments until March that is minimally a 5 month delay from their first estimate. 5 months later than first estimate if you had paid on or before August 25th.

[erk]

I wonder where Darren "Bicknellski" Bicknells promised hardware is?  He promised to deliver it in December and here it is January and nothing... yep, certainly the guy I would take advice from.

I hear the Montessori are good at designing advanced cryptographic hardware.

You spelt it wrong BTW.

[Bicknellski]

How many Monarchs have you purchased Erk?
I think you said 0 right?
I wonder why and I think you said it was because it will never ROI. Correct?

---

Note: I have Erk on ignore as well for his apologetics for BFL and their products based on ignoring the volume evidence supported in the BFL and Bitcointalk forums that they have a terrible record on shipping ON TIME.

[Searing]

Never have they met their own estimated timelines not even once. At this point one has to be rightly suspicious of the actual motives behind posting such inaccurate estimates.

well not only are/were bfl users screwed....they "forced" so many people with not shipping the last generation units till THANKSGIVING Nov 25th 2013...that they claimed they have a crap load of monarchs on order (of course I'd estimate 1/2 are folks that felt like me the need to 'force upgrade" due to no refunds in that the prev generation stuff was 1  year late for some folks...)

if so that is gonna be a crap load of monarchs/hash (crappy units they may be) hitting the network like an anvil tossed in a rowboat...

so this is my point....BFL always does ship LATE so they will dump the monarchs on the network including all the folks that were forced "artificailly" to upgrade due to no refunds...so BLAMO....the dang thing may be a brick you will never get your ROI out of ..but you will mine with it ....right about the time ..if their evil genius plan works when cointerra/knc and others also move a lot of units....(again they are evil ...clumsy on timing ....but anyway)

thus BFL gets all the $$$ and does a big splash upwards in difficutly ...when they finally get the crap out (all in one lump) ....and really really mess up difficulty in one fell swoop..of stuff that should have been hash last year .....ouch....

frigging evil geniuses they are...no doubt....how to make money ....f**k people over....screw up difficulty and leave large SCAM reports and news feeds on how Bitcoin is dangerous and foolish due to clowns like those at BFL....

could not have screwed us more if they tried ....(hmmmmmm)

Searing

[Bicknellski]

how the fuck do you guys want to handle the heat production of the mining card? this is impossible!!!
Like · Reply · November 2, 2013 at 3:39am

Butterfly Labs

We have a design in place that can easily dissipate the level of heat produced by the card. Even GPU manufacturers have similar designs at similar power ratings that are workable. We also have a water-cooling solution we're working on for higher power consumption settings. It's possible.
Like · 7 · November 2, 2013 at 3:55am

https://www.facebook.com/ButterflyLabs

[SLok]

Note: I have Erk on ignore as well for his apologetics for BFL and their products based on ignoring the volume evidence supported in the BFL and Bitcointalk forums that they have a terrible record on shipping ON TIME.

Fingers in my ears!! BLABLABLANAHNAHNAH I can't hear you I can't hear you! Ignore buttons are for pussies that lack real arguments. No roi for monarchs means no roi for your imaginary wasps right?