-- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?!

[PuertoLibre]

The bigger conundrum is that there are [probably] no types of customers that like BFL. Even if you are dumb enough to pay for a Monarch..you'll still be discontent. You will not recieve it on time. It will probably not match the original specs and underperform. It will probably break a day or a week into using it (countless reports).

So what kind of customer does BFL want?

The employees probably love BFL...wait....nevermind, some of them apparently post on reddit and call the company....less than desirable.

Shit....who's left? The principles of the company probably love the money....probably hate their own customers though.

[gbx]

Hey Searing... since you think it's going to be a brick, I assume you won't mind if we deliver your unit last, right?  I mean, according to you, a brick is a brick, so if you get it at the end of the line you won't mind, right?

You were not forced in to anything. If you had taken delivery of your 65nm when you were up for it, you would have ROI'd and been in the black already.  You know it, I know it... everyone knows it.  You just want to whine and bitch because that's your hobby.  So please, by all means, cry some more... everyone loves hearing you whine.

And from another thread regarding Inaba's customer service attitude.

Perhaps in 2014, you can redirect some of the energy you spend defending your business practices in these 3rd party forums into resolving ACTUAL customer issues.

Fix the underlying root cause.

It's an area we are working on.  I have no direct control over that area, so redirecting any of my energies to that would be fruitless.  Regardless, though, I only post here for entertainment purposes and when I have spare time (like sitting on a plane, holidays, etc...) and it's what I occasionally choose to do with my free time, so again, it would be fruitless, even if I did have direct control over it.  

As an average customer, you make me want to turn away and run from your company.  Think of all the damage you do EVERYTIME you post on here.

Perhaps a new hobby/entertainment source is due for you.  With all due respect.  

Or, maybe you and the rest of your crew should take a week off and attend some training on customer service.  No one, and I mean NO ONE is impressed with your conduct on these boards towards your customers.

I'm sorry if you've missed it before when I've clearly stated it, but if you are running away because of my posts, that is good.  You are not the type of customer we want.  We want customers capable of rationally assessing a situation and being able to extract the truth from the lies.  If you are running away because of my posts, you are not in that category and we do not want you as a customer.  You will require way too much hand holding and attention, eventually costing more to keep you as a customer though your unrealistic expectations and unreasonable requests than you generate in revenue.   We highly encourage you to seek out our competition and inflict yourself upon them at your earliest opportunity.

Right.

At the end of the day (or thread in this case)

Ask yourself this...

"Am I putting the company I work for in a better or worse position with my post?"

Therein lies the solution to your problem.

Your company would be better off if you just closed your browser and ignored the chatter on these boards (period).  You do nothing but damage and harm to your brand and to your company.

And believe me, you'll never see another red cent from me.

-gbx

I have asked myself that many times and our sales figures would make you out to be completely wrong.  Every time I go on a posting spree, our sales jump.  As much as you'd like to believe people are a vapid and ignorant as you would have the trolls believe, they aren't.  Most of our customers are pretty smart and they see right through the trollish behavior and are, at worst, ambivalent about my posts.  Many of them are entertained by it and that's why I do it, it's entertainment for the enlightened and rage inducing for the ignorant.  Just look at the frothing at the mouth we get from people like LittleD and Bicknellski... it's like tapping on a fishtank and watching the fish jump, but without the animal cruelty.

Poor little Bick, Syke, LittleD, et al do everything I want them to do whenever I want them to do it and they think it's their own idea.  It's actually quite glorious, to be honest, and it's why I keep coming back.  If they, and those like them, failed to perform on command, I really wouldn't have a reason to continue to post.  Lest you think I'm letting a secret out, I've said this numerous times before, just the puppets change... The first time I spilled the beans about this, I was afraid it would ruin the effect, but to my surprise it did absolutely nothing to lessen the effect, as there seems to be a limitless supply if easily pliable trolls to take the place of the ones that eventually wither away.  

While I would like to see much more active moderation on these forums to eliminate the trolls, it would make me quite a bit less effective without my little puppets to play with.  But on balance, it would be much better for the community.  One can only hope.

No such thing as bad publicity...

Perhaps...

Your posts and behavior certainly don't make me want to engage in a any kind of a transaction.  Heck, I even saw the "shipping now" products on your website and I still thought "nah, they're still lying".  Clearly, the "bad boy" persona of bitcoin mining has worked for you somehow up to this point.  And I'm sure the rise of BTC exchange rates hasn't hurt you either.  But I fail to see your metrics on your behavior and your sales.  I mean, you act like this 24x7x365.  So your correlation of behavior and sales is akin to the rise and fall of the sun or the moon.

[Inaba]

Your posts and behavior certainly don't make me want to engage in a any kind of a transaction.  Heck, I even saw the "shipping now" products on your website and I still thought "nah, they're still lying".  Clearly, being the "bad boy" persona of bitcoin mining has worked for you somehow up to this point.  And I'm sure the rise of BTC exchange rates hasn't hurt you either.  But I fail to see your metrics on your behavior and your sales.  I mean, you act like this 24x7x365.  So your correlation of behavior and sales is akin to the rise and fall of the sun or the moon.

See, that's why I say we don't want someone like you as a customer.  Anyone with the cognitive abilities to suss out truth from lies would realize what a ridiculous statement this is... yet you still fell prey to it, validating my initial judgement that you were exactly the wrong type of customer for us and would cost far more to retain than you would generate in revenue due to your need to have your hand held and palliative words whispered in your ear every other day.  Most adults don't need constant hand holding, but dollars to donuts, you would.  Thanks, but no.  Much like all the other part time trollers, you'll be gone in a week, a month, a year... never to be heard from again and no one will remember or care what you had to say.

I mean, the simple fact that I have to sleep at some point would show your statement to be completely ludicrous or hyperbole at best (which completely invalidates your argument in this context)... that's not to mention all the other times I am away from the forum for various reasons.  In fact, I only stop in here when I'm bored and need a little entertainment at this point. Anyone with even a smattering of common sense would look at my post history and times and realize that your statement is complete bunk.

[gbx]

Your posts and behavior certainly don't make me want to engage in a any kind of a transaction.  Heck, I even saw the "shipping now" products on your website and I still thought "nah, they're still lying".  Clearly, being the "bad boy" persona of bitcoin mining has worked for you somehow up to this point.  And I'm sure the rise of BTC exchange rates hasn't hurt you either.  But I fail to see your metrics on your behavior and your sales.  I mean, you act like this 24x7x365.  So your correlation of behavior and sales is akin to the rise and fall of the sun or the moon.

See, that's why I say we don't want someone like you as a customer.  Anyone with the cognitive abilities to suss out truth from lies would realize what a ridiculous statement this is... yet you still fell prey to it, validating my initial judgement that you were exactly the wrong type of customer for us and would cost far more to retain than you would generate in revenue due to your need to have your hand held and palliative words whispered in your ear every other day.  Most adults don't need constant hand holding, but dollars to donuts, you would.  Thanks, but no.  Much like all the other part time trollers, you'll be gone in a week, a month, a year... never to be heard from again and no one will remember or care what you had to say.

I mean, the simple fact that I have to sleep at some point would show your statement to be completely ludicrous or hyperbole at best (which completely invalidates your argument in this context)... that's not to mention all the other times I am away from the forum for various reasons.  In fact, I only stop in here when I'm bored and need a little entertainment at this point. Anyone with even a smattering of common sense would look at my post history and times and realize that your statement is complete bunk.

Maybe better restated as, when you do post on here, you're an ass..  24x7x365 was more figurative than literal.

You really shouldn't concern yourself with what kind of customer would I be.  That bell has rung.  The question you should concern yourself with is, "what kind of customers am I creating with my posts and my juvenile behavior?" You've rationalized that your behavior somehow improves your bottom line.  And rationalization is humanity's greatest weakness, isn't it?

But you've sold yourself and your brand short.  And you've clearly underestimated your position in this economy and I would argue that your online personality is detrimental to the brand your company is trying to build.  You can be late, but by all means, treat your customers with respect even if they don't give it to you or deserve it.  And always, ALWAYS do your best to manage expectations.

I'm not going to try to convince you that your behavior is "bad business".  You can figure that out for yourself.  And that principle you were referencing, was really the "Peter Principle".  You're familiar with it...

[PuertoLibre]

Wow,
It's amazing, but he is literally trying to fool people with a psychological game.

Just linking to the BFL run forums should be enough to dispel any BS he can even begin to type.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/forum.php

=============

Those are paying customers, flip through the pages and you'll see what people think as actual customers.

If he is here trying to pull the wool over people eyes, that means he is trying to secure new newbies who don't know anything about them.

[Xian01]

I have asked myself that many times and our sales figures would make you out to be completely wrong.  Every time I go on a posting spree, our sales jump.  As much as you'd like to believe people are a vapid and ignorant as you would have the trolls believe, they aren't.  Most of our customers are pretty smart and they see right through the trollish behavior and are, at worst, ambivalent about my posts.  Many of them are entertained by it and that's why I do it, it's entertainment for the enlightened and rage inducing for the ignorant.  Just look at the frothing at the mouth we get from people like LittleD and Bicknellski... it's like tapping on a fishtank and watching the fish jump, but without the animal cruelty.

Poor little Bick, Syke, LittleD, et al do everything I want them to do whenever I want them to do it and they think it's their own idea.  It's actually quite glorious, to be honest, and it's why I keep coming back.  If they, and those like them, failed to perform on command, I really wouldn't have a reason to continue to post.  Lest you think I'm letting a secret out, I've said this numerous times before, just the puppets change... The first time I spilled the beans about this, I was afraid it would ruin the effect, but to my surprise it did absolutely nothing to lessen the effect, as there seems to be a limitless supply if easily pliable trolls to take the place of the ones that eventually wither away.  

 *shakes head back and forth* Speaking of red flags...

 It's rare to see such a flagrant public display of apparent sociopathy and narcissistic personality disorder.

 Sad to see you have so much fun manipulating your prospective customers, and openly admit to it.

 Not a good way to run a business, no matter what sort of mental gymnastics you convince yourself of, to rationalize your poor public behavior - This is just not the way COO's of reputable businesses conduct themselves.

 Seeing you continuing to bloviate and gesticulate the way you carry on, is just genuinely sad to take in now.

 Try to be a better person Josh. They way you are carrying on is not healthy for your mental well-being, or the long-term health of your company.

[Bicknellski]

Wow,
It's amazing, but he is literally trying to fool people with a psychological game.

Just linking to the BFL run forums should be enough to dispel any BS he can even begin to type.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/forum.php

=============

Those are paying customers, flip through the pages and you'll see what people think as actual customers.

If he is here trying to pull the wool over people eyes, that means he is trying to secure new newbies who don't know anything about them.

https://www.facebook.com/search/keyword/?q=butterflylabs  <--- Quite a few more here on Facebook.

As he adds nothing probative or constructive to any of these threads it is just best that people light up that ignore under his name. There really is no need to 'debate' the failures of BFL they are well and truly documented in great detail.

A fact is something that has really occurred or is actually the case. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability, that is whether it can be proven to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable experiments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact

Buying from BFL is not recommended given there are as many verifiable statements that correspond to as large a number of negative and well documented experiences from customers. All you have to do is read the hundreds of complaints posted to find out what happens when you have issues.

Ask yourself these questions.

What happens if they fail to deliver in a reasonable amount of time?

Fact is they never have met any initial delivery estimates in their history and have been as late delivering some orders by 13 months.

What happens if the product you receive is defective or under spec?

Fact they are slow to answers emails and RMA requests.

What happens if I ask for a refund?

Fact they do not give refunds as a matter of policy and contrary to FTC regulations.

[gbx]

Maybe better restated as, when you do post on here, you're an ass..

I'm not going to try to convince you that your behavior is "bad business".  You can figure that out for yourself.  And that principle you were referencing, was really the "Peter Principle".  You're familiar with it...

As for being an ass, again, it's simply not true and either a gross exageration or hyperbole, further invalidating your argument.  That said, there is no reason to be kind to most of the trolls on here.  They aren't customers and they contribute nothing.  The lack of moderation on this forum leads to a completely useless, static filled mess, full of people like Bicknellski et al who add absolutely no value to anything.  As such, there's no reason to expend any energy posting useful information, since it will be drowned out by said trolls.

Just take a look at any post I make that's non-ass(ish) and it's immediately attacked by the usual band of idiots, ruining the thread.  Without moderation, it's impossible to hold civil discourse on this forum, so there's no point in trying.

I'm glad you're familiar with that principal.  That's why you're buying and/or talking about buying hardware and I'm selling it.  Think about that for a minute.

Please.  Don't kid yourself and think you're selling or have any sales ability because you don't.  You're an order taker at best and you have a long, long way to go before you could consider yourself having any mastery of the art of sales.

Don't let me hold you up looking for your next customer.  I'd hate for you to spend too much time selling me.

[PuertoLibre]

@ Bick

Can you post that thread where you collect all the BFL product failures and complaints from customers?

It would be helpful if people could see that info directly from the customers themselves.

[Unacceptable]

I have asked myself that many times and our sales figures would make you out to be completely wrong.  Every time I go on a posting spree, our sales jump.  As much as you'd like to believe people are a vapid and ignorant as you would have the trolls believe, they aren't.  Most of our customers are pretty smart and they see right through the trollish behavior and are, at worst, ambivalent about my posts.  Many of them are entertained by it and that's why I do it, it's entertainment for the enlightened and rage inducing for the ignorant.  Just look at the frothing at the mouth we get from people like LittleD and Bicknellski... it's like tapping on a fishtank and watching the fish jump, but without the animal cruelty.

Poor little Bick, Syke, LittleD, et al do everything I want them to do whenever I want them to do it and they think it's their own idea.  It's actually quite glorious, to be honest, and it's why I keep coming back.  If they, and those like them, failed to perform on command, I really wouldn't have a reason to continue to post.  Lest you think I'm letting a secret out, I've said this numerous times before, just the puppets change... The first time I spilled the beans about this, I was afraid it would ruin the effect, but to my surprise it did absolutely nothing to lessen the effect, as there seems to be a limitless supply if easily pliable trolls to take the place of the ones that eventually wither away.  

 *shakes head back and forth* Speaking of red flags...

 It's rare to see such a flagrant public display of apparent sociopathy and narcissistic personality disorder.

 Sad to see you have so much fun manipulating your prospective customers, and openly admit to it.

 Not a good way to run a business, no matter what sort of mental gymnastics you convince yourself of, to rationalize your poor public behavior - This is just not the way COO's of reputable businesses conduct themselves.

 Seeing you continuing to bloviate and gesticulate the way you carry on, is just genuinely sad to take in now.

 Try to be a better person Josh. They way you are carrying on is not healthy for your mental well-being, or the long-term health of your company.

Your referring to his "chi" LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Like he cares   

He fell in with a bunch of scammers & makes sooo much money,why WOULD he care,he gets paid no matter what!! 

Enjoy the ride Josh!!!

[Bicknellski]

@ Bick

Can you post that thread where you collect all the BFL product failures and complaints from customers?

It would be helpful if people could see that info directly from the customers themselves.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=344105.240 Some of the complaints on page 13 read well.


--------

He lacked integrity well before he stepped through the BFL doorway. Love to hear more about him being a plaintiff in the cable theft case that speaks volumes to what type of person the guy is. Probably unbondable as well. There is clearly no remorse for what he does to people and that is a telling sign of a sociopath. Again the best solution is to ignore him as he has nothing, absolutely nothing, to add to the community or constructive discussions about BFL. At this point the best thing that could happen would be for BFL to be audited by the IRS and at the rate they are scamming people it will happen. Surprised no anonymous tips from former employees have been phoned in.

[Searing]

Hey Searing... since you think it's going to be a brick, I assume you won't mind if we deliver your unit last, right?  I mean, according to you, a brick is a brick, so if you get it at the end of the line you won't mind, right?

You were not forced in to anything. If you had taken delivery of your 65nm when you were up for it, you would have ROI'd and been in the black already.  You know it, I know it... everyone knows it.  You just want to whine and bitch because that's your hobby.  So please, by all means, cry some more... everyone loves hearing you whine.

Nice job sinking to the same level as some consumers.. That is bad business all around and reflects very poorly on you.. I hope it was a mistake made in anger and not indicative of how you conduct yourself professionally, if so it's a huge red flag for anyone looking to do business with you.

hey it is my experience with josh ...either he just has rose colored glasses and the mnfg world always seems to turn against him on timelines etc...and he will get it together on the monarch or it was a loosely run organization with no internal focus because they always had the option to run the timeline out to whatever happened to come their way ....supply line wise (ie no one fired for stuff i'm sure you'd get canned for with other companies ...anyway from my experience customer service wise) or they just plain don't give a crap..and as soon as the bullet run monarchs come out..they will float off to their GH farm filled with monarhs (we paid for with bricks imho) and just close down BFL the mnfg corporation..ie we made them nice $$$ and nice shiny equip for the GH farm...ie we by being mislead (or by incompetance) gave bfl a big A+ in rewarding bad behaivor.....

Josh has the oppurtunity to prove me wrong if not imho on last year but on this new year monarch run....at least at that level i can just give them the benifit of a doubt it was deliberately misleading last year on their part...just bad management and customer relations

but then again imho that is a "big leap" to make from my viewpoint

so show us different josh...by all means.....let me salvage the ROI on the monarch i was 'very unlikely" to have salvaged on my april orders of last year of no refunds....in my and others decisions with the info we had last fall at the time to upgrade to the monarch (again imho no real choice with no refund)

I'd like to think you learned something and will at least manage to give us that!

again time will tell on this fairly soon hopefully

Searing

[cAPSLOCK]

This whole puppet master argument he is making is so fantastic it is hard to believe folks buy it.  He is not smart enough... Not by a long shot to pull off that level of con.  Niot even smart enough to see how ridiculous the argument is after the fact.  A sociopath, yes...  Some evil genius? No.

[dropt]

I'd like to think you learned something and will at least manage to give us that!

In his mind, he has done nothing wrong.  Thus, there's nothing to learn from it.  You're best to just add him to your ignore list.

[klondike_bar]

It is amazing that at this point, you could order 600GH (3 antminers) for a similar power draw at nearly the same price (5.7BTC for 3) as a monarch, and they will deliver this week

[erk]

It is amazing that at this point, you could order 600GH (3 antminers) for a similar power draw at nearly the same price (5.7BTC for 3) as a monarch, and they will deliver this week

Misleading nonsense, the antminer S1 is 360watts for 180GH/s you would need over 3 of them to match the Monarch spec. Thegenesisblock.com will tell you that the Antminer S1 if you get it I. January won't make ROI.

[Xian01]

It is amazing that at this point, you could order 600GH (3 antminers) for a similar power draw at nearly the same price (5.7BTC for 3) as a monarch, and they will deliver this week

Misleading nonsense, the antminer S1 is 360watts for 180GH/s you would need over 3 of them to match the Monarch spec. Thegenesisblock.com will tell you that the Antminer S1 if you get it I. January won't make ROI.

 How is it misleading nonsense ? The same site you mention states breakeven of 40 days for purchasing 3 Antminers delivered late this week. And that's just running them at 180GH/s with no overclock.

 What are the power numbers for a Monarch ? It's all conjecture and speculation at this point.

 http://thegenesisblock.com/mining/a/2808df4ad1

 Look, I understand that you are a staunch supporter of Butterfly Labs, but don't go around stating verifiable numbers are nonsense.

[Unacceptable]

It is amazing that at this point, you could order 600GH (3 antminers) for a similar power draw at nearly the same price (5.7BTC for 3) as a monarch, and they will deliver this week

Misleading nonsense, the antminer S1 is 360watts for 180GH/s you would need over 3 of them to match the Monarch spec. Thegenesisblock.com will tell you that the Antminer S1 if you get it I. January won't make ROI.

 How is it misleading nonsense ? The same site you mention states breakeven of 40 days for purchasing 3 Antminers delivered late this week. And that's just running them at 180GH/s with no overclock.

 What are the power numbers for a Monarch ? It's all conjecture and speculation at this point.

 http://thegenesisblock.com/mining/a/2808df4ad1

 Look, I understand that you are a staunch supporter of Butterfly Labs, but don't go around stating verifiable numbers are nonsense.

Can't wait to see the power consumption of the Monarch,if history is any indicator,it will be close to 3 times what was announced in 2013  

600GH (+ or - 20%!!!!) @ 350 watts is what is advertised....sooo,in theory it could be as high as 700-1050+ watts....which makes it only a little better than an Antminer  

3 Antminers @ 180 GH @ 360 watts each=1080 watts @ 540GH & YOU GET THEM NOW....not in March/April/May/June  

[dropt]

Can't wait to see the power consumption of the Monarch,if history is any indicator,it will be close to 3 times what was announced in 2013  

600GH (+ or - 20%!!!!) @ 350 watts is what is advertised....sooo,in theory it could be as high as 700-1050+ watts....which makes it only a little better than an Antminer  

3 Antminers @ 180 GH @ 360 watts each=1080 watts @ 540GH & YOU GET THEM NOW....not in March/April/May/June  

   There isn't a chance in hell the Monarch is going to hit those numbers.  IIRC the 28nm chip is based off their 65nm chip.  I'm sure we can all recall the bASIC vs BFL bet where Josh assured Tom that BFL was going to be at 1W/GH (or less).  Turns out their "fully-custom" 65nm design uses an approximate 4.5 W/GH.        The 28nm numbers should be good for a laugh.

[erk]

Can't wait to see the power consumption of the Monarch,if history is any indicator,it will be close to 3 times what was announced in 2013  

600GH (+ or - 20%!!!!) @ 350 watts is what is advertised....sooo,in theory it could be as high as 700-1050+ watts....which makes it only a little better than an Antminer  

3 Antminers @ 180 GH @ 360 watts each=1080 watts @ 540GH & YOU GET THEM NOW....not in March/April/May/June  

   There isn't a chance in hell the Monarch is going to hit those numbers.  IIRC the 28nm chip is based off their 65nm chip.  I'm sure we can all recall the bASIC vs BFL bet where Josh assured Tom that BFL was going to be at 1W/GH (or less).  Turns out their "fully-custom" 65nm design uses an approximate 4.5 W/GH.        The 28nm numbers should be good for a laugh.

There is always that possibility. We should know this week I would imagine.