Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Ozymandias]

So has BA decided if they were doing 28nm or 20nm?

[astronomino]

What about your cloud mining offering? When can we expect those to start working?
The website says "starting March 2014". It has said that for a while now, even back when the X1 and X3 were "end of February".
Are these cloud mining offerings part of the same queue as the X1 and X3: as in you go by the payment date and if it's an X1/3 you ship it, if its a cloud miner you mount and start it?
I've also seen a few people mention a "hosting option" for X1 and X3 which seems to be different than the cloud mining offering (because you get to own rather than rent the equipment) - this isn't described on the website, is it still available?
Thank you for your time.

Can anyone answer this?

I believe cloud hosting means you own a certain amount of hashing power and hosting means you own the actual device but someone else is running it for you. Cloud mining should probably be available sooner than you would receive a shipped asic or hosting.

It would be nice to have clarification about the cloud mining service.

I'm more interested in the start time of the cloud mining compared to the shipping time of the X3's
What they do is pretty obvious - you rent 1TH/s for 4 or 6 months then it's over, you don't get to keep any hardware. I believe you even get to choose the pool to mine at.
The price for 6 months hosting per TH is roughly equivalent to the price per TH of the X3. But you don't have to pay customs (which in my case would be 13% of the product's value), no electricity costs, no monitoring the thing, no lost revenue while shipping or if the unit is damaged on arrival. And I assume after 6 months X3's are more than likely obsolete and their resale value at that point might not cover the previously mentioned costs. Depending on how fast difficulty rises the cheaper 4 month cloud rental might be the best bang for the buck Black Arrow has to offer, but at least in my mind the 6 month cloud rental is almost certainly better than buying an X3. Might be different if customs can be avoided and you don't pay for electricity, but even then, the shipping time can still get you. Of course this entire analysis hinges on the cloud offering starting the same time as X3 shipping...

[mtbitcoin]

So has BA decided if they were doing 28nm or 20nm?

28nm for now..

[dracore]

I'm more interested in the start time of the cloud mining compared to the shipping time of the X3's
What they do is pretty obvious - you rent 1TH/s for 4 or 6 months then it's over, you don't get to keep any hardware. I believe you even get to choose the pool to mine at.
The price for 6 months hosting per TH is roughly equivalent to the price per TH of the X3. But you don't have to pay customs (which in my case would be 13% of the product's value), no electricity costs, no monitoring the thing, no lost revenue while shipping or if the unit is damaged on arrival. And I assume after 6 months X3's are more than likely obsolete and their resale value at that point might not cover the previously mentioned costs. Depending on how fast difficulty rises the cheaper 4 month cloud rental might be the best bang for the buck Black Arrow has to offer, but at least in my mind the 6 month cloud rental is almost certainly better than buying an X3. Might be different if customs can be avoided and you don't pay for electricity, but even then, the shipping time can still get you. Of course this entire analysis hinges on the cloud offering starting the same time as X3 shipping...

I agree with what you're saying here.  Also, having it hosted means that you don't need to deal with the noise and heat from the unit.  An estimate seems to show that by the end of the 6 months, the unit will be pulling in roughly 0.16 BTC/day.

[MANofthePEOPLE]

I agree with what you're saying here.  Also, having it hosted means that you don't need to deal with the noise and heat from the unit.  An estimate seems to show that by the end of the 6 months, the unit will be pulling in roughly 0.16 BTC/day.

0,16 a day in july sounds high? Thought it would be much less than that

Edit:

I guess this might be interested to some since it's been discussed in the thread. Got my order processed now.

Your order status has been changed to Processed and it was placed in shipping queue since 18th of December when we have received your payment into our account.

So they had my money for 7 days before they found the time to inform me about it. They also go after time they receive the money and not when you order so for those who want to be higher up on the que should use BTC as payment. Kinda shitty if you ask me..

All in all in happy it's been processed now at least

[dracore]

I agree with what you're saying here.  Also, having it hosted means that you don't need to deal with the noise and heat from the unit.  An estimate seems to show that by the end of the 6 months, the unit will be pulling in roughly 0.16 BTC/day.

0,16 a day in july sounds high? Thought it would be much less than that

0.16 after 6 months - end on Sept 1 - assuming you start on March 1 (Cloud hashing)
Is it really that high?

Here take a look:
https://coinplorer.com/Hardware/Simulate/52bc56da4db5580ddced5e3d?key=1f1c162b-e340-4029-a1a1-fd647205d1c5

[takagari]

.16/day? lmao...

If coins stay at current value and difficulty increases at estimated rates. You'll be loosing money by July.

time to look into your math a bit better gents http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

These rig's turn a profit if they ship on time, anything delayed and you simply loose all money.

Minning is not a Get rich for the next year type of investment boy's


EDIT:
Going off today's value starting in March you will never make a penny off this machine. FYI.
You generate maybe 12 coins before it's into the penny coins. So you need to decide if you can buy more coins fro $6,000 than it will produce

I've pulled out of buying one of these.

[tempestb]

You probably shouldn't mine if you don't plan on holding your coins and believe in Bitcoin's future that the value will continue to grow.  Staring at the current fiat value is what caused folks to cash out at $20 a coin and high-five each other that they made a "profit".  If you're long on Bitcoin, you'll make money from these and other machines.  I wouldn't recommend anyone invest in any mining rig if they aren't willing to hold and risk their money for a future pay day. 

[astronomino]

.16/day? lmao...

If coins stay at current value and difficulty increases at estimated rates. You'll be loosing money by July.

time to look into your math a bit better gents http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

These rig's turn a profit if they ship on time, anything delayed and you simply loose all money.

Minning is not a Get rich for the next year type of investment boy's


EDIT:
Going off today's value starting in March you will never make a penny off this machine. FYI.
You generate maybe 12 coins before it's into the penny coins. So you need to decide if you can buy more coins fro $6,000 than it will produce

I've pulled out of buying one of these.

.16/day is indeed extremely optimistic, but I think "never make a penny off this machine" is too grim of an outlook. The general direction of the bitcoin price has sortof been an upward trend. With more real money being pumped into the system and difficulty rising it may keep going up. Of course no one can see the future and it can just as easily go back down to under $1 tomorrow. However looking at your own estimate of 12 coins, you would break even if the price of bitcoin is $500 and you would double your investment if the price of bitcoin reaches $1000 again. To me that's pretty good odds since bitcoin is worth roughly $800 right now - which makes miners more profitable at the moment than buying bitcoins outright and hoping it will go up.

[talexeh]

I agree with what you're saying here.  Also, having it hosted means that you don't need to deal with the noise and heat from the unit.  An estimate seems to show that by the end of the 6 months, the unit will be pulling in roughly 0.16 BTC/day.

0,16 a day in july sounds high? Thought it would be much less than that

Edit:

I guess this might be interested to some since it's been discussed in the thread. Got my order processed now.

Your order status has been changed to Processed and it was placed in shipping queue since 18th of December when we have received your payment into our account.

So they had my money for 7 days before they found the time to inform me about it. They also go after time they receive the money and not when you order so for those who want to be higher up on the que should use BTC as payment. Kinda shitty if you ask me..

All in all in happy it's been processed now at least

Sorry for the late reply as I wasn't around for the past few days. I got my order processed on the 25th itself (a very relieved Christmas for me). However, looking at your post, it appears that they included some information that wasn't in my email, particularly the shipping queue information. 

[PEC07]

Hey bobsag3,

 I sent you a PM but I am not sure if you will see it in time, so I'll write it here . It's been about 12 days now since I sent the wire transfer and my order status has not changed. Did you receive anything yet or have any new info for me ? I'm heading to the bank tomorrow and I'm considering asking them to reverse the wire transfer and do an investigation because it seems like my money was sent to nowhere. I just wanted to check with you first before I did so.

[thomas_s]

Hey bobsag3,

 I sent you a PM but I am not sure if you will see it in time, so I'll write it here . It's been about 12 days now since I sent the wire transfer and my order status has not changed. Did you receive anything yet or have any new info for me ? I'm heading to the bank tomorrow and I'm considering asking them to reverse the wire transfer and do an investigation because it seems like my money was sent to nowhere. I just wanted to check with you first before I did so.

I understand your worry and hope it get resolves, bob did good getting mine taken care.  But wires are irreversible, once a bank wire is sent you need the other side to initiate it back to go through, it wouldn't hurt to ask if they can provide any information, but as for reversing it, they won't be able to help with that.

The most they can do is run a trace on it to see where it went, if the bank sent it to the wrong place and you can prove it they are responsible for it. This trace usually isn't free and takes a week or two for them to complete. But as DebitMe said wire transfers are irreversible.

[takagari]

.16/day? lmao...

If coins stay at current value and difficulty increases at estimated rates. You'll be loosing money by July.

time to look into your math a bit better gents http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

These rig's turn a profit if they ship on time, anything delayed and you simply loose all money.

Minning is not a Get rich for the next year type of investment boy's


EDIT:
Going off today's value starting in March you will never make a penny off this machine. FYI.
You generate maybe 12 coins before it's into the penny coins. So you need to decide if you can buy more coins fro $6,000 than it will produce

I've pulled out of buying one of these.

.16/day is indeed extremely optimistic, but I think "never make a penny off this machine" is too grim of an outlook. The general direction of the bitcoin price has sortof been an upward trend. With more real money being pumped into the system and difficulty rising it may keep going up. Of course no one can see the future and it can just as easily go back down to under $1 tomorrow. However looking at your own estimate of 12 coins, you would break even if the price of bitcoin is $500 and you would double your investment if the price of bitcoin reaches $1000 again. To me that's pretty good odds since bitcoin is worth roughly $800 right now - which makes miners more profitable at the moment than buying bitcoins outright and hoping it will go up.

I understand that, I'm not looking at FIAT, but had you instead sunk 7 grand and purchased 14 coins earlier in the month. you would be ahead regardless of the turn out.
I look at it, as right now I'm spending 8 coins to buy a machine maybe to generate 12 coins. Which is a 50% turn over,
Had you purchased coins at $500 and sat on them. you would be in the same situation, but without the headache

I just don't like seeing people getting their hope's up. like .16 coins a day

How ever, if the value of coin's doubles monthly, at current rate of difficulty increase, you'd see 6 grand a month for life

[jimmothy]

.16/day? lmao...

If coins stay at current value and difficulty increases at estimated rates. You'll be loosing money by July.

time to look into your math a bit better gents http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

These rig's turn a profit if they ship on time, anything delayed and you simply loose all money.

Minning is not a Get rich for the next year type of investment boy's


EDIT:
Going off today's value starting in March you will never make a penny off this machine. FYI.
You generate maybe 12 coins before it's into the penny coins. So you need to decide if you can buy more coins fro $6,000 than it will produce

I've pulled out of buying one of these.

.16/day is indeed extremely optimistic, but I think "never make a penny off this machine" is too grim of an outlook. The general direction of the bitcoin price has sortof been an upward trend. With more real money being pumped into the system and difficulty rising it may keep going up. Of course no one can see the future and it can just as easily go back down to under $1 tomorrow. However looking at your own estimate of 12 coins, you would break even if the price of bitcoin is $500 and you would double your investment if the price of bitcoin reaches $1000 again. To me that's pretty good odds since bitcoin is worth roughly $800 right now - which makes miners more profitable at the moment than buying bitcoins outright and hoping it will go up.

I understand that, I'm not looking at FIAT, but had you instead sunk 7 grand and purchased 14 coins earlier in the month. you would be ahead regardless of the turn out.
I look at it, as right now I'm spending 8 coins to buy a machine maybe to generate 12 coins. Which is a 50% turn over,
Had you purchased coins at $500 and sat on them. you would be in the same situation, but without the headache

I just don't like seeing people getting their hope's up. like .16 coins a day

How ever, if the value of coin's doubles monthly, at current rate of difficulty increase, you'd see 6 grand a month for life

Gtfo with the "you should just buy coins and hold" argument. The horse has been beaten to death already. Most of us miners accept the risk that we might not reach roi in btc but there is a chance we do. Of course if we all had magic crystal balls we would have bought at 500 and sold at 1200 and repeat.

Nobody knows what the difficulty will be in 1 month let alone 3 or 6 months. All we know is that BA is offering the most bang for your buck when it comes to mining.

I personally think we will eventually see linear growth of the network hashrate resulting in a much higher yield than many predict.

[PEC07]

Hey bobsag3,

I think I found out what the problem was. I just got back from the bank They said that you received it but it wasn't a wire transfer they sent, they sent my payment as a check. Check It out as soon as you can please.

[cdog]

Wow if this thread has proven anything its that banks are a giant pain to deal with and not very effective at transferring money quickly and cheaply.

If only there was another solution...

[slicko]

Wow if this thread has proven anything its that banks are a giant pain to deal with and not very effective at transferring money quickly and cheaply.

If only there was another solution...

there are !!! paypal, paysafe card and skrill are also working. maybe i forgot somehting ...

[Xian01]

 Meanwhile, still waiting on customer service to resolve a Dec 2 order payment query.

 By all accounts, it would appear that Butterfly Labs has better customer service than Black Arrow

 Caveat Emptor.

 I should probably just give up ordering one of these on principle.

[Jamoke]

Meanwhile, still waiting on customer service to resolve a Dec 2 order payment query.
     ....
 Caveat Emptor.

I put in a second order on December 4th. Had a small hiccup, and asked for support, and got it sorted out and confirmed paid on December 5th.  I've been following this thread for a while, and can see that those who have had problems are very vocal.  Just wanted to throw in that I'm very excited about both of my orders, and am very excited about the mining I will be doing with them.  If I had to guess I'd guess that the closer it gets to March, the more difficult it will be to place an order, and those who ordered early will be very grateful they did.   I have no regrets, and had a very pleasant experience dealing with BA on both of my orders.

[bennybong]

Still waiting