[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[minerpart]

Yes. Ford sell more cars than Porsche. But Porche have the better car - by far.

Ford revenue 2012: 134 Billion USD
Porsche revenue 2012: 13.9 Billion Euros

[SebastianJu]

Hm... i really like that we finally get an update that... unbelievably... contains facts. Thats something i like really much. Though im not sure about the content.

So Q2 2014 we will have chips? That can be april to june. And then some more weeks to produce miners. That means its pretty sure that we have to refund pretty much every customer till then. And the reason customers will refund is that the miners wont be profitable starting from week 2 of february. Thats in 2 weeks. I know ken was smart to refund in USD so it wont hurt VMC too much. But the next question is if these miners... that will come out months after the VMC-Enduserprices dont ROI anymore... will ROI for shareholders. Im really not sure. Each month is making 50% less profit. 2 months mean 75% less profit. Can the enduserprices be that high that we still make profit with miners at cost we will use for ourselves? Are the VMC Miners having 50% profit for VMC when selling? Then one month later, in march we couldnt mine with the miners profitable anymore too. Of course i dont have a clue what profit the vmc-miners contain.

I see that a tapeout for 55nm makes sense when it comes to giving miners to customers to prevent refunds but the tapeout costs over a million usd. And then shortly after a tapeout for 28nm should be done which cost, i believe above 2 million usd. Im not sure that makes much sense.

I would like to hear what the problems were before. Did we only anticipate wrongly that we will have miners in november or what problems appeared?

[kslaughter]

Yes. Ford sell more cars than Porsche. But Porche have the better car - by far.

Ford revenue 2012: 134 Billion USD
Porsche revenue 2012: 13.9 Billion Euros

Very good.

[JoTheKhan]

Hm... i really like that we finally get an update that... unbelievably... contains facts. Thats something i like really much. Though im not sure about the content.

So Q2 2014 we will have chips? That can be april to june. And then some more weeks to produce miners. That means its pretty sure that we have to refund pretty much every customer till then. And the reason customers will refund is that the miners wont be profitable starting from week 2 of february. Thats in 2 weeks. I know ken was smart to refund in USD so it wont hurt VMC too much. But the next question is if these miners... that will come out months after the VMC-Enduserprices dont ROI anymore... will ROI for shareholders. Im really not sure. Each month is making 50% less profit. 2 months mean 75% less profit. Can the enduserprices be that high that we still make profit with miners at cost we will use for ourselves? Are the VMC Miners having 50% profit for VMC when selling? Then one month later, in march we couldnt mine with the miners profitable anymore too. Of course i dont have a clue what profit the vmc-miners contain.

I see that a tapeout for 55nm makes sense when it comes to giving miners to customers to prevent refunds but the tapeout costs over a million usd. And then shortly after a tapeout for 28nm should be done which cost, i believe above 2 million usd. Im not sure that makes much sense.

I would like to hear what the problems were before. Did we only anticipate wrongly that we will have miners in november or what problems appeared?

Summarized.

• Will this profitable for ACTM?
• Won't the 28NM chips we were going to make be unable to meet ROI by Feb 14th (ish); so won't these start off unprofitable for everyone?
• Are the 55nm chips only being produced to appease previous customers?
• Will these chips (from selling and mining) meet ROI for investors (at IPO price I assume?)
• What part of Q2 for chips to come in? (Can we get a month? If you say Q2 and are expecting April, what happens if Ken says, nope now its Q3? Are we end of Q2 or beginning of Q2)

[minerpart]

Yes. Ford sell more cars than Porsche. But Porche have the better car - by far.

Ford revenue 2012: 134 Billion USD
Porsche revenue 2012: 13.9 Billion Euros

Very good.

When money is tight people go for the budget option. We can be the Walmart of bitcoin mining why not. So long as we can produce at volume we can do very well from 55nm.

[drawingthesun]

Ken.

What are the specs for the full custom 28nm? This is the main factor in our business, would you agree?

Are we going to create a 100+GH/s++ chip or is it still small (<100GH/s)?

[SebastianJu]

Summarized.

• Will this profitable for ACTM?
• Won't the 28NM chips we were going to make be unable to meet ROI by Feb 14th (ish); so won't these start off unprofitable for everyone?
• Are the 55nm chips only being produced to appease previous customers?
• Will these chips (from selling and mining) meet ROI for investors (at IPO price I assume?)
• What part of Q2 for chips to come in? (Can we get a month? If you say Q2 and are expecting April, what happens if Ken says, nope now its Q3? Are we end of Q2 or beginning of Q2)

Thats it pretty much. I dont see why shareholders rejoice. Difficulty is the biggest enemy and each month we start to mine later our profits are cut 50%. Each month.

[minerpart]

Thats it pretty much. I dont see why shareholders rejoice. Difficulty is the biggest enemy and each month we start to mine later our profits are cut 50%. Each month.

Not if we sell chips. The higher difficulty goes the more that chips will be in demand. If difficulty stayed the same demand for chips would be very low.

Chips are the new shovels. And we have an excellent budget option on the way AND a top notch 28nm soon after.

[Jasun7211]

Ken.  Ill be at the bitcoin confrence in Miami on Friday through Sunday.  If there's anything you want me to convey for you there let me know via PM  Thoughts, ideas, word of mouth etc...

[Bitdust]

... I dont see why shareholders rejoice. ...

If the shares were trading, I'd say manipulation.  They're not, so I'm left with "hysterical denial" and "can't math."
Your choice.

[JoTheKhan]

Yes. Ford sell more cars than Porsche. But Porche have the better car - by far.

Ford revenue 2012: 134 Billion USD
Porsche revenue 2012: 13.9 Billion Euros

Very good.

When money is tight people go for the budget option. We can be the Walmart of bitcoin mining why not. So long as we can produce at volume we can do very well from 55nm.

I just want you to know that when the money is tight, the budget option isn't even selected some times, (necessities come first). BTC mining is not a necessity like a car is, its a luxury in a way. And when people don't have money, they forgo luxuries.

Now I must agree I believe more people will select the cheaper option than the more expensive option. There is less money involved so if it falls through people don't feel as bad.  

[Bitdust]

Thats it pretty much. I dont see why shareholders rejoice. Difficulty is the biggest enemy and each month we start to mine later our profits are cut 50%. Each month.

Not if we sell chips. The higher difficulty goes the more that chips will be in demand. If difficulty stayed the same demand for chips would be very low.

Chips are the new shovels. And we have an excellent budget option on the way AND a top notch 28nm soon after.

OK.  I guess it's "can't math."
Amazing Company.
Amazing Investors!

[zumzero]

The same number of bitcoins get rewarded to miners every day so when it come to mining ourselves, which is only one way that ActiveMining makes it's money, it is better to think in terms of, 'what percentage of the global hashing network can ActM command?'.

Remember that the difficulty affects all miners equally.

[JoTheKhan]

@SebJu

Yeah I think it is far too early to be happy. Be happy when the shares are on the exchange for more than IPO price and dividends are being paid. People on this forum get too excited and then get the wind knocked out of them because they don't scrutinize the information they get. Remember when shares were .008 each? Wtf was that? That was pure manipulation, denial and overzealousness. Now those people are screwed out of their money (at the moment) and you guys are going to wound up getting them super happy for it to happen again.

[kslaughter]

Ken.

What are the specs for the full custom 28nm? This is the main factor in our business, would you agree?

Are we going to create a 100+GH/s++ chip or is it still small (<100GH/s)?

We will know soon.

[JoTheKhan]

Thats it pretty much. I dont see why shareholders rejoice. Difficulty is the biggest enemy and each month we start to mine later our profits are cut 50%. Each month.

Not if we sell chips. The higher difficulty goes the more that chips will be in demand. If difficulty stayed the same demand for chips would be very low.

Chips are the new shovels. And we have an excellent budget option on the way AND a top notch 28nm soon after.

OK.  I guess it's "can't math."
Amazing Company.
Amazing Investors!

Yeah his argument is incorrect here. I think he is trying to express:

With Difficulty A (where A is < B ) I will buy this Chip because this Chip will generate X amount of money.
But if Difficulty was B (where B is > A) I will need to buy more than one Chip to generate X amount of money; therefore more of these chips will sell. ( I personally don't think Supply and Demand is that simple).

[Bitdust]

Thats it pretty much. I dont see why shareholders rejoice. Difficulty is the biggest enemy and each month we start to mine later our profits are cut 50%. Each month.

Not if we sell chips. The higher difficulty goes the more that chips will be in demand. If difficulty stayed the same demand for chips would be very low.

Chips are the new shovels. And we have an excellent budget option on the way AND a top notch 28nm soon after.

OK.  I guess it's "can't math."
Amazing Company.
Amazing Investors!

Yeah his argument is incorrect here. I think he is trying to express:

With Difficulty A (where A is < B ) I will buy this Chip because this Chip will generate X amount of money.
But if Difficulty was B (where B is > A) I will need to buy more than one Chip to generate X amount of money; therefore more of these chips will sell. ( I personally don't think Supply and Demand is that simple).

I should have included logic fail.
You're right to think that people won't buy more chips that both cost more than the competition per GH/sec, and require more space and peripheral circuitry to run.  We're talking last year's tech *promised* this spring.  Knowing Ken, he will come up with another stall tactic and promise 90nm chips by Jan 2015.

*People here seem to think that last gen. tech is more cost-effective, with 55nm chips somehow turning out better GH/s per dollar ratio.  Either they feel that all of the competitors developing next gen silicon are insane, or

Sure, you can buy out 55nm projects really cheap now, from the companies realizing they'll be too late to the market, but that's financial suicide.  That's why that IP is cheap and available.

[Flashman]

I had to read the update 5 times, and check my calendar, both for year and month and for it not being April 1st already.

55nm? 

The only way this makes the least bit of sense is if UMC is as dirt cheap as they ever were and we can knock out a few quadrillion USB miners for mBTC a piece.

But reading between the lines then, the FPGA brain transplant didn't work out, we're now on full custom for 28nm, which may mean market leading power efficiency and speed, vs hmmmkay range values of initial spec.

[wasubii]

PRESS RELEASE

Springfield, MO and Santa Jose, CA – January 21, 2014 – Active Mining Corporation (Belize) (AMC) a bitcoin Mining and Hardware Manufacture, and  People's ASIC a stealth Silicon Valley startup founded by two veteran engineers is proud to announce today the tape-out of their 55 nm UMC Bitcoin Mining ASIC.  The ASIC features SHA256 optimizations according to a scientific paper by Dadda et al.

Simultaneously, AMC has acquired the Intellectual Property (Verilog code, test bench, GDS-II data, etc. for the 55nm UMC Bitcoin Mining ASIC.  Delivery of chips is expected in Q2/2014.  Also, AMC will use the same design team and code which successfully taped out the 55 nm on AMC's eASIC's 28 nm.  EASIC's 28 nm development has been upgraded to a full custom 28 nm.

Soo.. Q2/2014. Guess AM will beat us to the market? Thank you for the Press Release.

A couple questions/concerns.

• Does this count as the wednesday update? Or an we expect some information about CT operations, So 55nm Asic will be our first batch and then starting at Q2 onwards we will start working on a 28nm Asic? Or are we turning a 55nm Asic into a 28nm Asic? Can someone explain this in more laymanish terms.
• At the point of Tapeout is it expected to know what the Gh/Power Consumption will be? Can we expect Ken to know this right now?
• I'm not sure if this is good news or bad. I call on Kleeck to help me understand this.  

11mm X 11m package, 1.9 GH/s and 2.5 watts.

Wow. 1.9Gh/s chip delivered in 6 months. Please lets get trading ASAP so i can dump this turd.

[zumzero]

Polish it first then make me an offer, I might be buying more.