👑 CoinRoyale.com - Original Bitcoin Casino | Trusted Since 2013 ✔️

[victorhing]

Interesting is that the Player Seed typically does not change unless the player changes it - therefore the Mersenne Twister would get the same input- I have outlined the CoinRoyale Shuffle below

1- Initial Deck and Dealer Seed are hashed to the SHA
2- Then Shuffled with the Player Seed to get the final deck
     A - Hash the Player Seed
     B - Truncate results to 32 bits
     C - 32 bits are fed into the Mersenne Twister PRNG
     D - Result is fed into the Fisher-Yates shuffle

The player seed is actually randomly populated by your browser (not backend/API). We decided to make it the same so that player doesn't have to repeatedly change it in every game they play. It's more of a user experience choice.

Also, CoinRoyale has become increasingly difficult to get in touch with and are not replying to questions either here or in emails.
1- They have not replied to request for the remainder of the hands.
2- They offered to assist with the playing out of the hands, yet have not.
3- They are unable to answer questions put forth elsewhere in this thread about the shuffle.

For 1 and 2, our technical team actually wrote a script to process the outcome from raw data. But when we ran it, it crashes the process due to sheer amount of game played by you. We're working on a better version I've intended to pass you the remainder of the hands ONCE we have the finished script since you indicated that you are not able to process the raw data. If you still wants the raw data for the remainder hand, let me know in the email and I'll send it to you right away.

To give out info on the bug, it is based on the timing of the cards release, it is reproducible on Safari using a Mac but not on Chrome and it has not been attempted on windows machines.  It does not work on iPads or phones.  We also measured the actual time to release using Chrome and the Dev Tools but it is not reproducible using Chrome so we suspect that the times would be affected as well.

That's all you have on the so-called bug? This is incredibly vague. We hope you can elaborate further so other can prove it? Please note the the timing of the cards release is different each time simply because of the server load. We sometimes have a lot of players playing (some at high speed) which causes high load to the server and thus processing time might be slower (by few milliseconds).

We have asked if they would be willing to return lost BTC to us (and I would suspect any other player) that has been affected, we haven't heard back.

I replied to your email

A little background about the system they use and PROMOTE - the promotion or "PROVABLY FAIR" is what makes them very suspicious.  

Wait, what? Using "provably fair" makes us suspicious? I don't know what's your logic in that. We're Provably Fair and we proudly let our players know that and all hands can provable by others (not just based on our words).

This system of "Provably Fair" was actually introduced by BitZino shortly before CoinRoyale began using it.  It wasn't long before BitZino was closed for business for stealing BTC

I think we all know Bitzino invented Provably Fair but I'm not sure about them closing down for business for stealing BTC.

[victorhing]

It seemed like your entire premise of the bug is, like you said (quoted directly): based on the timing of the cards release, and you mentioned you can correctly predict when the dealer gets pat 20 hands. Let me try to get this correct: you're saying that you can correctly predict the when dealers will get pat 20 hands based on the timing of the cards release, right?

I suspect you might have confused card release timing with "loading times". Have you ever thought of the loading times is slower (by few milliseconds) because if the dealer is getting 2 face cards (pat 20 hands), it takes longer to load? (face cards have bigger image thus slightly longer loading times).

[victorhing]

Anyway, StatsMan and your friend (whosthat), I would like to thank you for your business. I hope I've provided you with more than enough evidence and if you're still not satisfy, I recommend you that you play somewhere else.

[FrozenOne]

StatsMan seems to be a SERIOUS conspiracy theorist and is getting on my fucking nerves at this point. It looks like he's grasping at straws and failing to make any real relevant proof of Coinroyale cheating. Victorhing has been professional and courteous throughout this whole ordeal. Kudos to victorhing and the Coinroyale team for dealing with crazy people like this guy! I'll be playing at your casino as long as it stays open.

[StatsMan]

I understand how the "Provably Fair" system works.  It is not full proof by any means.  Please refer to the link I posted earlier, it is easier to understand from Trevor.  I have quoted a portion of the Trevor/Libertaad conversation below'

"This is why we claim that the browser-based Provably Fair implementation is compromised. In fact, I believe you have alluded to that in your closing argument. If Provably Fair allows a "handful" (or more) of savvy users to ensure the house isn't cheating, and I can show that the remaining majority of users are still vulnerable to exploitation, then the system cannot be reasonably claimed as "fair" and, at the very least, cannot be "provable"."

[FrozenOne]

I understand how the "Provably Fair" system works.  It is not full proof by any means.  Please refer to the link I posted earlier, it is easier to understand from Trevor.  I have quoted a portion of the Trevor/Libertaad conversation below'

"This is why we claim that the browser-based Provably Fair implementation is compromised. In fact, I believe you have alluded to that in your closing argument. If Provably Fair allows a "handful" (or more) of savvy users to ensure the house isn't cheating, and I can show that the remaining majority of users are still vulnerable to exploitation, then the system cannot be reasonably claimed as "fair" and, at the very least, cannot be "provable"."

Of course provably fair isn't PERFECT, but does it have to be? All it has to do is show within a reasonable shadow of a doubt that the casino is being fair and I think it does that. Isn't that all that matters?

[StatsMan]

In response to the loading times, that is a possibility.  We actually have not looked into it much, but could it also be that the Java RNG you use is predictable based on the time delay?  I recall some guys exploiting something similar back 10 years ago but I could be mistaken.  Regardless, I will be happy to film it and send it to you.  

[StatsMan]

We want to make a statement about what we have posted recently.  We started this by looking into the stats of the hands dealt and noticed a few flaws.  Some of our post prior to this are accusatory and wrong.  For that we apologize, CoinRoyale has replied to our emails and righted possible wrongs. 

We retract any accusations and want to continue to work with them on the flaws of the website. 

We have voluntarily deleted a few of our posts that could be detrimental to their business.

[casinobitco]

Sir - Provably Fair is 100% fair if you change the client seed, which you can do on Bitzino, CoinRoyale, BitcoinRush, and any other legit Bitcoin Casino out there.

I understand how the "Provably Fair" system works.  It is not full proof by any means.  Please refer to the link I posted earlier, it is easier to understand from Trevor.  I have quoted a portion of the Trevor/Libertaad conversation below'

"This is why we claim that the browser-based Provably Fair implementation is compromised. In fact, I believe you have alluded to that in your closing argument. If Provably Fair allows a "handful" (or more) of savvy users to ensure the house isn't cheating, and I can show that the remaining majority of users are still vulnerable to exploitation, then the system cannot be reasonably claimed as "fair" and, at the very least, cannot be "provable"."

[adaseb]

Sir - Provably Fair is 100% fair if you change the client seed, which you can do on Bitzino, CoinRoyale, BitcoinRush, and any other legit Bitcoin Casino out there.

I understand how the "Provably Fair" system works.  It is not full proof by any means.  Please refer to the link I posted earlier, it is easier to understand from Trevor.  I have quoted a portion of the Trevor/Libertaad conversation below'

"This is why we claim that the browser-based Provably Fair implementation is compromised. In fact, I believe you have alluded to that in your closing argument. If Provably Fair allows a "handful" (or more) of savvy users to ensure the house isn't cheating, and I can show that the remaining majority of users are still vulnerable to exploitation, then the system cannot be reasonably claimed as "fair" and, at the very least, cannot be "provable"."

Most gambling websites you can change it, but its annoying changing it on every bet and most people just leave it as is for the entire session. There should be an "auto new client seed" option.

[joksim299]

I have been playing at CoinRoyale since 2014 and lost many games at low stakes at the beginning and I was thinking they are cheating even with implementation of provably fair, but they reassured me and show me everything I asked for (hand data, guided me trough provably fair system, they even learned me how to play better), since then I had not any problems with them, when I was losing they credited me comps they even sent comp to my personal address. For every bug submitted I received a bug bounty. Received big comp for testing their new games. I got an answer on every email I sent to them.

If game freeze and you refresh page cards will be on first sit and client seed for new hand will be randomized.


CoinRoyale is the best!

[StatsMan]

I have been playing at CoinRoyale since 2014 and lost many games at low stakes at the beginning and I was thinking they are cheating even with implementation of provably fair, but they reassured me and show me everything I asked for (hand data, guided me trough provably fair system, they even learned me how to play better), since then I had not any problems with them, when I was losing they credited me comps they even sent comp to my personal address. For every bug submitted I received a bug bounty. Received big comp for testing their new games. I got an answer on every email I sent to them.

If game freeze and you refresh page cards will be on first sit and client seed for new hand will be randomized.


CoinRoyale is the best!

I don't doubt it, I have never seen any of those things but I am sure they provide them as most casinos do.  Maybe we are just small time - not exactly sure but I would estimate we have deposited 50 bitcoin in the last few weeks.

[victorhing]

We want to make a statement about what we have posted recently.  We started this by looking into the stats of the hands dealt and noticed a few flaws.  Some of our post prior to this are accusatory and wrong.  For that we apologize, CoinRoyale has replied to our emails and righted possible wrongs.  

We retract any accusations and want to continue to work with them on the flaws of the website.  

We have voluntarily deleted a few of our posts that could be detrimental to their business.

Appreciate that. And yes, I've passed the "screen frozen" bug you mentioned to our technical team. Once we figure out how to reproduce it, it will be our first priority to fix it.

[victorhing]

I have been playing at CoinRoyale since 2014 and lost many games at low stakes at the beginning and I was thinking they are cheating even with implementation of provably fair, but they reassured me and show me everything I asked for (hand data, guided me trough provably fair system, they even learned me how to play better), since then I had not any problems with them, when I was losing they credited me comps they even sent comp to my personal address. For every bug submitted I received a bug bounty. Received big comp for testing their new games. I got an answer on every email I sent to them.

If game freeze and you refresh page cards will be on first sit and client seed for new hand will be randomized.


CoinRoyale is the best!

Thank you! Best player ever

[cryptosmoker]

We want to make a statement about what we have posted recently.  We started this by looking into the stats of the hands dealt and noticed a few flaws...

No, you started by losing a bunch of coin and deciding you must of been cheated. 

Then you decided to look at the stats and find a way to prove what you already thought was true.

[justscrewit]

I have been playing at CoinRoyale since 2014 and lost many games at low stakes at the beginning and I was thinking they are cheating even with implementation of provably fair, but they reassured me and show me everything I asked for (hand data, guided me trough provably fair system, they even learned me how to play better), since then I had not any problems with them, when I was losing they credited me comps they even sent comp to my personal address. For every bug submitted I received a bug bounty. Received big comp for testing their new games. I got an answer on every email I sent to them.

If game freeze and you refresh page cards will be on first sit and client seed for new hand will be randomized.


CoinRoyale is the best!

Well apparently they no longer offer comps because now they expect you to earn the comps by giving you playthrough codes, which by definition, is not a comp. I think it's funny that Victor thinks I need to now "earn" my comp after I lose 9 Bitcoin in a span of about 45 min. So I guess now I'll ask for a comp and I'll get a code I can enter that chips me off .01 at a time with a super low rollover (keep in mind that rollover number is not accurate unless you just play slots). I used to really like coinroyale but recently I'm not winning (the amount of 21 to 20 losses, really has me scratching my head) and on top of that they don't even want to comp me after I give them around 2200 USD unless I deposit more and HOPE I earn my "comp" before I lose my main balance. Really hope coinroyale starts to go back to where they were because this new concept isn't going to have me coming back

[Indianacoin]

Will there be games with "live dealers" in Future? Because, in live games there will be no chance of feeling cheated and opposing the game as "probably fair" 

[win win win]

Will there be games with "live dealers" in Future? Because, in live games there will be no chance of feeling cheated and opposing the game as "probably fair"  

It's easy to cheat with live dealers, I assume... That human error element also... or just the human element.

[shanem]

Will there be games with "live dealers" in Future? Because, in live games there will be no chance of feeling cheated and opposing the game as "probably fair" 

It's easy to cheat with live dealers

How do casino cheat with live dealers?
I thought it would be more difficult to cheat as you can watch what the dealers are doing?

[Insanity]

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