[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[NotLambchop]

...
second thing is $/Gh is also on an exponential trend, so technically its ok to make linear projections, exponential projections are usually highly inaccurate.
...

wat

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[rdyoung]

...
second thing is $/Gh is also on an exponential trend, so technically its ok to make linear projections, exponential projections are usually highly inaccurate.
...

wat

I thought it was pretty clear. We are currently at approximately 78PHS network rate, for it to double we need another 78PHS of hardware to be manufactured built and brought online. That would give us 156PHS, then to double again, we need another 156PHS to bring us to 312PHS.
To keep up with the current growth rate, we need a lot more manufacturing capacity producing chips then we have now. We also need more power efficient chips.

[NotLambchop]

I'm addressing this here:

...
second thing is $/Gh is also on an exponential trend, so technically its ok to make linear projections, exponential projections are usually highly inaccurate.
...

BTC mined with each GH/s *drops* at the same rate as difficulty rises.
(Dollars per GH/s) is a function of difficulty, not "second thing."
Not sure how this supports the case of linear projections.

[twentyseventy]

We would like to appeal to all our unit holders and sympathizers to help us by this. We launch a call to send us all your ideas on this to info@cryptx.com

Let’s work together to take this to the next level!

Done. Running through my network now.

To those complaining that they ask for help in promotion, reason your statement out please. I'm more than happy to increase the value of my investment by promoting the project. Helping out means everybody wins.

PETA wins because of bigger IPO sales
Investors win because it is an amazing investment
You win because a bigger PETA means a bigger value for your investment

Keep rocking it CryptX

It's okay guys, MPalokaj is here. The same guy that let COG trade for two full days after paying their last dividend, allowing people to buy literally worthless shares on the market.

[jimmothy]

We would like to appeal to all our unit holders and sympathizers to help us by this. We launch a call to send us all your ideas on this to info@cryptx.com

Let’s work together to take this to the next level!

Done. Running through my network now.

To those complaining that they ask for help in promotion, reason your statement out please. I'm more than happy to increase the value of my investment by promoting the project. Helping out means everybody wins.

PETA wins because of bigger IPO sales
Investors win because it is an amazing investment
You win because a bigger PETA means a bigger value for your investment

Keep rocking it CryptX

It's okay guys, MPalokaj is here. The same guy that let COG trade for two full days after paying their last dividend, allowing people to buy literally worthless shares on the market.

Don't forget about selling all 18 of cogs cointerra machines for 50% off market rate before the surprise last dividend.

[Anonymousg64]

I'm addressing this here:

...
second thing is $/Gh is also on an exponential trend, so technically its ok to make linear projections, exponential projections are usually highly inaccurate.
...

BTC mined with each GH/s *drops* at the same rate as difficulty rises.
(Dollars per GH/s) is a function of difficulty, not "second thing."
Not sure how this supports the case of linear projections.

second point, $/GH in terms of cost for hardware, not profit per Gh

case in point, the added hashrate wont be linear either, it will keep up thanks to inverse trend of cost per Gh vs difficulty

[NotLambchop]

Gotcha.  In that case ...still no.  Hardware costs per GH are whatever the market will bear.  If BTC price goes up, the market will pay more for the chips.  The dollar cost of producing the chips may remain the same, though -- you're right.  Is Peta an ASIC manufacturer?

[xe99]

I was wondering if someone could clarify a couple things i'm still confused about? i have not been following PETA or CryptX and have only been lurking past couple days after Havelock announcement. I'm new to difficulty and mining as well so forgive questions if they are overly elementary.

After reading the recent update on havelock about the upcoming ipo offerings and reading back the last half dozen or so pages of this thread...i am confused still when dividends at 15/GH will start being paid back to investors?

forgive me if this was obvious somewhere and i simply missed it but so far i haven’t come across a concrete answer.

from the information iv'e come across on the chart posted a page or so back, it seems this happens after all ipo shares have been sold. at this point dividends to invest are zero and i assume start to be funnelled back to investors. what happens if they do not all sell and when is the final offering ending? whats the backup plan if not even a fraction of the final shares offered are sold?

and how do you guarantee any of this? you claim 25,000 bitcoin will be mined in a year but even a modest increase in difficulty to 15,000,000,000 which seems very likely in next couple months, you will be lucky to pull 18,000 BTC. what am i missing?

are investors guaranteed 15/GH dividends no matter what happens by a certain date? I'd like to invest a little bitcoin but so far some things not adding up for me.

thanks for any help answering these questions.

[rdyoung]

I'm addressing this here:

...
second thing is $/Gh is also on an exponential trend, so technically its ok to make linear projections, exponential projections are usually highly inaccurate.
...

(Dollars per GH/s) is a function of difficulty, not "second thing."
Not sure how this supports the case of linear projections.

NO, This is only true with bitmaintech who prices solely in BTC. Most everyone else prices their hardware in USD/GHS. USD/GHS will come down as moores law is still in effect for asic. IF/When the day comes that the suppliers of those making the chips will accept BTC then GHS can be priced solely in terms of GHS/BTC.

[Anonymousg64]

15GH/s/share is guaranteed regardless of how many shares are sold during the ipo

[NotLambchop]

@rdyoung:  Sorry about the confusion.  I mistakenly assumed Anonymousg64 was talking about $$ mined per GH/s, while he meant the cost of hardware.
Realizing my mistake, but not wishing to appear reasonable and just admitting I was pwnt, I replied:

Gotcha.  In that case ...still no.  Hardware costs per GH are whatever the market will bear.  If BTC price goes up, the market will pay more for the chips.  The dollar cost of producing the chips may remain the same, though -- you're right.  Is Peta an ASIC manufacturer?

[michaelGedi]

with the sentiment and the share price, do you think it's time we actually voted with these voting shares? I mean, before the IPO. What do you think cryptx, do you think maybe you should put forward options A, B or C to be voted on?

is there a method to put forward motions? how were the decisions made last year to sell existing hardware and buy next gen etc?

[MrSike]

I was wondering if someone could clarify a couple things i'm still confused about? i have not been following PETA or CryptX and have only been lurking past couple days after Havelock announcement. I'm new to difficulty and mining as well so forgive questions if they are overly elementary.

After reading the recent update on havelock about the upcoming ipo offerings and reading back the last half dozen or so pages of this thread...i am confused still when dividends at 15/GH will start being paid back to investors?

forgive me if this was obvious somewhere and i simply missed it but so far i haven’t come across a concrete answer.

from the information iv'e come across on the chart posted a page or so back, it seems this happens after all ipo shares have been sold. at this point dividends to invest are zero and i assume start to be funnelled back to investors. what happens if they do not all sell and when is the final offering ending? whats the backup plan if not even a fraction of the final shares offered are sold?

and how do you guarantee any of this? you claim 25,000 bitcoin will be mined in a year but even a modest increase in difficulty to 15,000,000,000 which seems very likely in next couple months, you will be lucky to pull 18,000 BTC. what am i missing?

are investors guaranteed 15/GH dividends no matter what happens by a certain date? I'd like to invest a little bitcoin but so far some things not adding up for me.

thanks for any help answering these questions.

My post further up covered this a bit. The chart you are looking at has a category named Dividends to be paid after IPO or something along those lines. What that number is is the total amount of dividends CryptX will not payout to shareholders and instead use them to pay back the company he bought the hashing power from. It also doesn't show what happens if 0 shares are sold and that is 1957 BTC worth of dividends to be withheld.  So when will the dividends start being paid back to investors? After CryptX pays off all his debts is the answer. We can do a quick estimation that is extremely optimistic at the time frame of when you will start to see a single Satoshi paid out to investors right now.

200 BTC was mined last week so tripple hash rate means triple the coins to 600 BTC expected to be mined. 25% is still gone to hosting fees so that leaves 450 BTC left to be paid out as dividends and reinvestment. But what CryptX did was force all shareholders to give up dividends to pay back the company so it's now 100% reinvestment.

Best case scenario and what you should all hope happens: All 33k shares are sold in this IPO and dividends start to be paid out next month.

Worst case scenario no IPO shares are sold and shareholders are stuck with the bill and must pay 1957 BTC. 1957 / 450 = 4.34 and that number is the amount of weeks until the hardware is paid off from shareholders. It will take just over 4 weeks, but remember this is an optimistic calculation as it doesn't take into account the difficulty increase that will happen. That is 4-5 weeks AFTER IPO ends for a total of 6-7 weeks.

If 1 batch of 10,000 is sold only 1007 BTC need to be repaid and that will end up taking 1007/450 = 2.23 weeks of no dividend payments to pay back the company. But again overly optimistic because it doesn't take into account difficulty rise so in this case it will take 4-5 weeks total to start seeing dividend payments again.

You can see that if all the shares are not sold how bad this will be for shareholders and how outraged you should be about CryptX forcing the bill onto holders via holding dividend payments. But he still gets his 25% hosting fee for his pocket. Start asking questions as to why shareholders have to foot the bill and not just use the 35% reinvestment like how the prospectus says. Ask why there was no shareholder vote on the change in direction of the mine when the prospectus says shareholders have voting rights and a few paragraphs away says that shareholders should vote if they want the dividend/reinvestment %'s changed. I am no longer a shareholder because if I still held any shares in this mine I wouldn't see a penny in dividends until at least a month - month and a half out from now. Shareholders have voting rights, it explicitly says it in the prospectus so use your voting rights to keep the mine how it was and only allow CryptX to use 35% reinvestment to pay back the company, not your dividends.

[rdyoung]

@rdyoung:  Sorry about the confusion.  I mistakenly assumed Anonymousg64 was talking about $$ mined per GH/s, while he meant the cost of hardware.
Realizing my mistake, but not wishing to appear reasonable and just admitting I was pwnt, I replied:

Gotcha.  In that case ...still no.  Hardware costs per GH are whatever the market will bear.  If BTC price goes up, the market will pay more for the chips.  The dollar cost of producing the chips may remain the same, though -- you're right.  Is Peta an ASIC manufacturer?

No worries, I obviously missed your reply.

[cryptx]

I think there is a lot of confusion going on about the latest developments. Let me try to elaborate on this.

First we want to clear some misunderstandings:

“You bought 14,500 units and now you sell them at a higher price in the IPO to make a profit for yourself”.

The money that is raised at the IPO will go to the purchase of 1000 TH/s of mining equipment, which costs about 3,760 BTC. Financial breakdown to deploy 1PH/s:

• Cost: 3,760 BTC
• Income:

                * 33,794 shares at IPO: 3,313 BTC
                * Current reinvestment funds: 150 BTC
                * Mining revenue (16-31 May): 300 BTC

“do you think you could tell us what that 1000BTC will be spent on cryptx? Shares or what?”

We will pre-finance the 1000 BTC to be able to purchase up to 1000 TH/s after the IPO. This means it is a loan from us to the PetaMine. The more shares are sold in the IPO, the less has to be pre-financed and paid back in dividends.

“Why are dividends withheld for a few weeks?”

This is a joint effort of current investors, new investors and CryptX. Investing in new hardware now will have a much better impact in the long run on both unit value and dividends.

“But they are misleading people so they can maximize their own profits. The first few months will be the most profitable, but instead of pumping out dividends then are going to use it to reinvest so they can have more machines, which makes them more money. “

We can tell all of you that we have already invested over 1,000,000$ of our own private money into this project. This money has been spent on:

•   Datacenter: Electric installation, cooling, infrastructure, alarms, network, etc
•   Shipping costs: We have paid all the express shipping from US (Cointerra), from Switzerland (Bitmine), from China (Dragon miners, custom miners).
•   PSU: we have bought about 200 psu’s so the Coincraft desk could be delivered faster.
•   Custom miners: Apart from the chips, we have paid the full production of 250 miners.
•   Custom designs
•   Labor costs
•   Etc

We have a margin on hosting costs, so it is in our interest that PetaMine grows. We have cut hosting from 0.45$/kwh to 0.25$/kwh because we believe in the project for the long term and want it to have every chance to succeed.

Old situation:

We were hashing at about 500 TH/s with 80,760 units. What would have happened if we did not make some drastic changes? 

First we would pay the last part of the Bitmine contract and we would be in the same situation like before. We would have to wait on the RIG’s to be delivered. In best case, all RIG’s would be deployed in a couple of weeks and we would hash at 700 TH/s with 80,760 units outstanding. This would have meant 8.67 GH/share.

Second every week the dividend payments would have gone down and the hosting fees would have gone up.

The overall result would have been that the PetaMine would produce less and less dividend until costs became higher than revenue. The consequences would have been a dropping unit price and a dropping dividend.

New situation:

We have cut the hosting fee from 0.45$/kwh to 0.25$/kwh. In other words we gave up a large portion of our income to the PetaMine project.  We could have left it at 0.45$ and receive a lot more hosting for the coming months. Instead we want the project to thrive and become one of the larger players in the Bitcoin mining place.
We bought back about 14,500 shares with the money we otherwise had to spend on Bitmine for our second part of the contract. We did this because we are convinced that we could use these shares to take the PetaMine to another level.

What will be the overall result?

Plain and simple, if the IPO is successful PetaMine will be much larger and the unit holders will be owner of 15 GH/s per share instead of 8.68 GH/s per share. On top of this the costs of the mine are almost halved.
We are convinced that we all have to look at this project with our long term glasses on. Big dividends in the short run will result in a dead project in the long run. PetaMine cannot simultaneously grow exponentially and pay large dividends at the same time. We want to become and stay one of the large players in Bitcoin mining.

[Anotheranonlol]

how do you guarantee any of this? you claim 25,000 bitcoin will be mined in a year but even a modest increase in difficulty to 15,000,000,000 which seems very likely in next couple months, you will be lucky to pull 18,000 BTC. what am i missing?

are investors guaranteed 15/GH dividends no matter what happens by a certain date? I'd like to invest a little bitcoin but so far some things not adding up for me.

thanks for any help answering these questions.

25,000+ btc will be mined assuming either entire global hashrate remains static, which obviously it won't OR the 2% figure (representing PETA's portion of entire hashrate) used in that calculation will grow proportionally to the rate of growth the rest of the market. This is the reason for 65% rather than 100% towards dividends, which would be a losing proposition over time.

For example the mine initially started with 1G per share. Hardware was sold to expand the farm and instead of quickly paying off investors a lump sum from that sale, a decision was made to withhold those dividends to increase the capacity, therefore GH/s each share is entitled to a higher amount. at 80k shares with current deployment that increased 600%, combatting the difficulty increases.

You can see from dividend history the upwards trend.

2014-05-16   2014-05-16   0.00150424
2014-05-09   2014-05-09   0.00109209
2014-05-02   2014-05-02   0.00105737
2014-04-25   2014-04-25   0.00075670
2014-04-18   2014-04-18   0.00068164
2014-04-11   2014-04-11   0.00057136
2014-04-04   2014-04-04   0.00060188
2014-03-28   2014-03-28   0.00061162
2014-03-21   2014-03-21   0.00063172
2014-03-14   2014-03-14   0.00050213
2014-03-07   2014-03-07   0.00042365
2014-02-28   2014-02-28   0.00040211

Here we come to the second situation where a temporary sacrifice is made to ensure the long-term success of the mine.

[pedrog]

About reinvestment, how do you plan on making it, every 1000 bitcoins accumulated, 2000?

How much hash power does 1000 bitcoins buy us in the near future?

I've always saw the LK BTC MINER acquisitions with the reinvestment funds as a bad move, buying big and as cheap as possible seems the way to go.

[EdoBcn]

and I thought that the decrease in cost of fees was due to scryptx launch.
14500 shares, out of 80k, your biggest investor wanted to cash out. That's really a good motivator to stay for all of us. Sure. The whale goes and we should stay.
For all your investment and cost part: show us your financials or do you want the shareholders to believe you are so generous spending money for the shareholders profit?

can you come out clean and tell us how much you paid those 14500 shares? was it the price at that moment or the new ipo price?
Was that the biggest shareholder?
Isn't the project already falling behind, and you are halting payouts to invest further? Stuck at 500ths while we should be at way more?
Wasn't the alteration of reinvestment rate something subject to shareholders voting?

Are you going to do the same in few weeks for scryptx project as well?

it could be, in fairness, that your decision was the wise one for the long term success of the project. But it is how you carried out the changes and communication that was the bad thing. At least for me.

And now, with more btc funding requests, this starts smelling as the cousin of a ponzi scheme.
Shareholders need to suggest and promote the new ipo or they will not be able to sell their expensive shares or re-start getting their dividends.

I don't see how this could possibly go wrong.

[cryptx]

About reinvestment, how do you plan on making it, every 1000 bitcoins accumulated, 2000?

How much hash power does 1000 bitcoins buy us in the near future?

I've always saw the LK BTC MINER acquisitions with the reinvestment funds as a bad move, buying big and as cheap as possible seems the way to go.

We agree on your point of view. This means we will accumulate reinvestments to a certain point that enables us to benefit from the purchasing power.

The amount of Bitcoins needed to give us this advantage is hard to predict because circumstances change very fast.

You can find a price prediction of future hardware in the forecast. I do think we have overestimated this price and much lower prices can be possible in the near future.

[pedrog]

About reinvestment, how do you plan on making it, every 1000 bitcoins accumulated, 2000?

How much hash power does 1000 bitcoins buy us in the near future?

I've always saw the LK BTC MINER acquisitions with the reinvestment funds as a bad move, buying big and as cheap as possible seems the way to go.

We agree on your point of view. This means we will accumulate reinvestments to a certain point that enables us to benefit from the purchasing power.

The amount of Bitcoins needed to give us this advantage is hard to predict because circumstances change very fast.

You can find a price prediction of future hardware in the forecast. I do think we have overestimated this price and much lower prices can be possible in the near future.

Oh, of course, my bad, we should look at this in terms of dollars or euros, with bitcoin price fluctuation it's a guess trying to say how much coins will buy certain hardware.