[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[stompysteve]

havelock does not provide voting.

this is probably the only thing this project is missing, and people would stop wining 

[JstnPwll]

I trust the long-term vision, haven't been disappointed yet. I just wish we could get the wheels moving faster on this IPO.

[MrSike]

havelock does not provide voting.

this is probably the only thing this project is missing, and people would stop wining  

Well shareholders voting rights were stripped in this latest prospectus so it wouldn't do anything now. These issues should have been voted on before this latest prospectus was even released.

From the December prospectus:

"The 65/35 percentages are chosen after careful consideration of the current and the future market. The percentages can change if shareholders vote to change it. Such action will only occur if the state of the Bitcoin mining space demands it."

"All shares issued have voting power. CryptX will not change the direction or goal of the PETA-MINE without shareholder votes."

This voting power is no longer mentioned in the new prospectus. The 65/35 split is no longer the dividend/reinvestment plan as originally stated when the mine started. Is it right to just go changing terms on shareholders like this with no input, especially given those 2 quotes above from the last prospectus?

Plus the Havelock description still says 65% in dividends will be paid out to shareholders on a weekly basis when the new dividend plan is 10% +3% each 10 days at the start, dwindling down to a 1% increase a year from now as outlined in the forecast in the new prospectus. This is very misleading for investors and should be fixed.

This will probably be deleted, but this is information that should be seen.

[howardb]

You do realize that they cannot make the hardware appear from thin air, right?

The manufacture didn't delivered the hardware, so we got a refund...

The mining industry is a continuing changing business, you adapt or die and as far as I can see cryptx is doing a good job, or at least trying very hard, adapting to new circumstances.

Was it that hard to explain, share and call for quick vote?
We were all for the long term and most likely voted in favor of the logical option...

That's the problem with virtual companies, there is no corporate governance, we have no 'rights' as shareholders, in fact we are not even represented by shareholder elected directors. So we should not be entirely suprised when so called 'founders' steamroller through their own decisions regardless of whether they might represent a conflict of interest.

Having said that, I knew I was taking a chance on the people behind honest when I got into this. But there IS a very good reason why none of these IPO's would be legal in the developed world.

[EdoBcn]

now that scryptx has stated hashing, will peta see a decrease in hosting costs this week?

if so how will that effect the div% and reinvest%

Hosting costs will be reduced to $0.25 starting from May 9th (tomorrow) as announced earlier. We are evaluating the best strategy for div/reinvestment %.

will there be some voting for shareholders or ar you open to suggestions?

I'm here for the long term, I consider this low btc value as a temporary opportunity to buy more machines and aim higher. in the future, the situation may be different, but this is a good moment to grow more by investing more.
I'm happy to divert the whole benefit of the reduced cost to the reinvestment fund. If that's an option the others would consider fair. Of course.

And

An interesting thought. What happens if the reinvestment part is used (once or twice) to purchase shares of PETA?
Wouldn't that mean that each share actually increases in TH/s, making it more interesting for price and future dividends?

I've been doing this for the last few dividends... repurchasing more shares, meaning MY own total TH/s (GH/s) increased, meaning my future dividends should be higher (as I now hold more shares).

Is it just a brain fart or does it make any sense to someone else as well?
 

So, it is not what has been done. It is the way it has been implemented.
The whole discussion here went south. Posts were deleted, fud is spread on other threads and forums.
Maybe the IPO block is good for timing. Step back. Consider things in contest. Maybe be humble. Agree that we are (were) giving trust to Cryptx to manage the project. Cryptx acknowledging that he is getting our trust, funds... could do a better job at communication.

And take the step back as a spring to jump further forward. Get additional funds (IPO?). Get additional revenue streams (Scryptx?). Show with numbers that this is the only fund on Havelock kicking ass.

Arrogance is not good for any of the two sides, but numbers should be the only thing that talks here. Assumptions on difficulty or btc prices, are just... assumptions.

[webbrowser]

It seems manifestly clear that 2.4 GH/s on 1st Jan >> 8.68 GH/s in two weeks (tm).  Heck, 1 GH/s on 1st Jan > 8.68 GH/s in two weeks.

Now, we could just wait for the last hardware to arrive. We would be hashing at 700 TH/s with 80,760 shares in a couple (?) of weeks. We could pay 65% dividend and all investors with a short term view, would be happy. Until they realize a few weeks/months later we are slowly dying and dividends dry out.

This is the truth.  Unfortunately, it still appears to be the truth after IPO.  The reason dividends were going up was due to initial deployment not because reinvestment could keep up with difficulty rise.  Leaving the reinvestment rate alone means investors lose less, and you still make a healthy profit.  

[cryptx]

 The reason dividends were going up was due to initial deployment not because reinvestment could keep up with difficulty rise.  Leaving the reinvestment rate alone means investors lose less, and you still make a healthy profit.  

Spot on! In the case of 65/35 dividend/reinvestment we cannot keep up with difficulty. This is why we are doing this IPO and changing our strategy, so we do keep up with difficulty and be able to grow large.

[MrSike]

 The reason dividends were going up was due to initial deployment not because reinvestment could keep up with difficulty rise.  Leaving the reinvestment rate alone means investors lose less, and you still make a healthy profit.  

Spot on! In the case of 65/35 dividend/reinvestment we cannot keep up with difficulty. This is why we are doing this IPO and changing our strategy, so we do keep up with difficulty and be able to grow large.

But this new reinvestment plan can only keep up with difficulty until August 4, 2014, as seen in your forecast in the prospectus. After that date we are in the exact same situation with not being able to keep up with the difficulty using just reinvestment funds. The only way it can sustain is if there is a big price spike in BTC before that date to buy much more miners with reinvestment funds when the reinvestment is largest and network hashrate is lowest, but then a different problem arises.

Are there any plans to to tackle this issue when it comes up again?

[twentyseventy]

havelock does not provide voting.

this is probably the only thing this project is missing, and people would stop wining  

Well shareholders voting rights were stripped in this latest prospectus so it wouldn't do anything now. These issues should have been voted on before this latest prospectus was even released.

From the December prospectus:

"The 65/35 percentages are chosen after careful consideration of the current and the future market. The percentages can change if shareholders vote to change it. Such action will only occur if the state of the Bitcoin mining space demands it."

"All shares issued have voting power. CryptX will not change the direction or goal of the PETA-MINE without shareholder votes."

This voting power is no longer mentioned in the new prospectus. The 65/35 split is no longer the dividend/reinvestment plan as originally stated when the mine started. Is it right to just go changing terms on shareholders like this with no input, especially given those 2 quotes above from the last prospectus?

Plus the Havelock description still says 65% in dividends will be paid out to shareholders on a weekly basis when the new dividend plan is 10% +3% each 10 days at the start, dwindling down to a 1% increase a year from now as outlined in the forecast in the new prospectus. This is very misleading for investors and should be fixed.

This will probably be deleted, but this is information that should be seen.

Quoted for reference. Though HL doesn't provide a voting mechanism, Cryptx could have at least made a lot of this information public in advance. It seems that a lot of shareholders feel blindsided by the past week's developments.

[Anonymousg64]

The reason dividends were going up was due to initial deployment not because reinvestment could keep up with difficulty rise.  Leaving the reinvestment rate alone means investors lose less, and you still make a healthy profit.  

Spot on! In the case of 65/35 dividend/reinvestment we cannot keep up with difficulty. This is why we are doing this IPO and changing our strategy, so we do keep up with difficulty and be able to grow large.

But this new reinvestment plan can only keep up with difficulty until August 4, 2014, as seen in your forecast in the prospectus. After that date we are in the exact same situation with not being able to keep up with the difficulty using just reinvestment funds. The only way it can sustain is if there is a big price spike in BTC before that date to buy much more miners with reinvestment funds when the reinvestment is largest and network hashrate is lowest, but then a different problem arises.

Are there any plans to to tackle this issue when it comes up again?

thats only 1 view based on one projection
you can generate thousands of multifactor exponential projections

when considering everything i think they can keep up, because they have the ability to adapt, unlike your projection
individuals long-term miners have the same problems, yet we persist

[Anotheranonlol]

But this new reinvestment plan can only keep up with difficulty until August 4, 2014, as seen in your forecast in the prospectus. After that date we are in the exact same situation with not being able to keep up with the difficulty using just reinvestment funds. The only way it can sustain is if there is a big price spike in BTC before that date to buy much more miners with reinvestment funds when the reinvestment is largest and network hashrate is lowest, but then a different problem arises.

Are there any plans to to tackle this issue when it comes up again?

 why not make calculation factoring in big spike in BTC? we can surely rely on the spreadsheet as you said by switching few numbers.

Here, I've outlined one scenario in the sheet with BTC at $4,000





Astute readers will notice we control around 34,000% of the entire hashrate by 2015,  very exciting. pretty impressive dividends too  

[stompysteve]

The reason dividends were going up was due to initial deployment not because reinvestment could keep up with difficulty rise.  Leaving the reinvestment rate alone means investors lose less, and you still make a healthy profit.  

Spot on! In the case of 65/35 dividend/reinvestment we cannot keep up with difficulty. This is why we are doing this IPO and changing our strategy, so we do keep up with difficulty and be able to grow large.

But this new reinvestment plan can only keep up with difficulty until August 4, 2014, as seen in your forecast in the prospectus. After that date we are in the exact same situation with not being able to keep up with the difficulty using just reinvestment funds. The only way it can sustain is if there is a big price spike in BTC before that date to buy much more miners with reinvestment funds when the reinvestment is largest and network hashrate is lowest, but then a different problem arises.

Are there any plans to to tackle this issue when it comes up again?

we arent going to be able to keep up with difficulty if btc price never goes up, but does everyone here really think its going to stay at 450
we are already upto 500 for today btc price, can someone redo those charts were btc varies price and how much the btc price is going to effect the rest of the numbers

EDIT: looks like the person above me is already on it
edit:edit: lol at the chart above me

[MrSike]

 The reason dividends were going up was due to initial deployment not because reinvestment could keep up with difficulty rise.  Leaving the reinvestment rate alone means investors lose less, and you still make a healthy profit.  

Spot on! In the case of 65/35 dividend/reinvestment we cannot keep up with difficulty. This is why we are doing this IPO and changing our strategy, so we do keep up with difficulty and be able to grow large.

But this new reinvestment plan can only keep up with difficulty until August 4, 2014, as seen in your forecast in the prospectus. After that date we are in the exact same situation with not being able to keep up with the difficulty using just reinvestment funds. The only way it can sustain is if there is a big price spike in BTC before that date to buy much more miners with reinvestment funds when the reinvestment is largest and network hashrate is lowest, but then a different problem arises.

Are there any plans to to tackle this issue when it comes up again?

thats only 1 view based on one projection
you can generate thousands of multifactor exponential projections

when considering everything i think they can keep up, because they have the ability to adapt, unlike your projection
individuals miners have the same problems, yet we persist

That is not an exponential projection, it is a linear network hashrate projection. This is also not my projection it is the projection done by CryptX in the prospectus. Individual miners have the same problem but they have the ability to reinvest 100% and not worry about splitting income with other people so it is more sustainable in the long run as a solo miner. The reason I bring CryptX's projection up is because his business plan is derived from how he thinks the project will do. And it can be seen in the forecast that his own plan will start to fall apart  August 4, 2014 leading us back right to this issue.

Also one issue with what you say is "..i think they can keep up.." You are putting faith into this mining operation because you are invested in it, not looking at what is laid out in front of you in the mine operators own forecast.

If you are going to be posting silly projections that CryptX's business plan isn't based off of then there is no point in talking to you, lose all of  your investment. There is also one fatal flaw in the chart you just posted it assumes a BTC price of $4,000 by the end of this month.

[stompysteve]

even if price was 100,000$ per coin, his chart makes 0 sense

[Anonymousg64]

The reason dividends were going up was due to initial deployment not because reinvestment could keep up with difficulty rise.  Leaving the reinvestment rate alone means investors lose less, and you still make a healthy profit.  

Spot on! In the case of 65/35 dividend/reinvestment we cannot keep up with difficulty. This is why we are doing this IPO and changing our strategy, so we do keep up with difficulty and be able to grow large.

But this new reinvestment plan can only keep up with difficulty until August 4, 2014, as seen in your forecast in the prospectus. After that date we are in the exact same situation with not being able to keep up with the difficulty using just reinvestment funds. The only way it can sustain is if there is a big price spike in BTC before that date to buy much more miners with reinvestment funds when the reinvestment is largest and network hashrate is lowest, but then a different problem arises.

Are there any plans to to tackle this issue when it comes up again?

thats only 1 view based on one projection
you can generate thousands of multifactor exponential projections

when considering everything i think they can keep up, because they have the ability to adapt, unlike your projection
individuals miners have the same problems, yet we persist

That is not an exponential projection, it is a linear network hashrate projection. This is also not my projection it is the projection done by CryptX in the prospectus. Individual miners have the same problem but they have the ability to reinvest 100% and not worry about splitting income with other people so it is more sustainable in the long run as a solo miner. The reason I bring CryptX's projection up is because his business plan is derived from how he thinks the project will do. And it can be seen in the forecast that his own plan will start to fall apart  August 4, 2014 leading us back right to this issue.

Also one issue with what you say is "..i think they can keep up.." You are putting faith into this mining operation because you are invested in it, not looking at what is laid out in front of you in the mine operators own forecast.

If you are going to be posting silly projections that CryptX's business plan isn't based off of then there is no point in talking to you, lose all of  your investment. There is also one fatal flaw in the chart you just posted it assumes a BTC price of $4,000 by the end of this month.

again there is 0% certainty in the projection

these factors are the one im talking about:
$/BTC
Difficulty
cost$/Gh/s
w/Gh/s can also influence the outcome
$/kwh might aswell factor that in since it could change

they can adapt, and their current strategy is the kind of strategy that is needed
solo miners are not necessarily better off, they will have a harder time acquiring optimal reinvestment hashrate
a large operation is more efficient at reinvestments

[Pentax]

cryptx have you considered advertising on reddit or some others major sites to promote your IPO ?
With Scryptx's IPO, must of us here don't have enough funds left.

just grabbing this, not necessarily responding to Stego.

it could be the Scrypt offering, although there's plenty of money sitting.  I know that because I have some of it, which I transferred in just prior to this IPO for the express purpose of buying some of these. 

I didn't buy any simply because the price set was above market price at the time of the announcement.  Sure market price shot up to reflect that, however is that the actual market price/value?

I say no, and other investors likely agree.  Why would I buy at .095 BTC/unit if I'm going to lose 10-20% as the market resets to it's true equilibrium point?  I wouldn't and didn't, because it makes absolutely no sense. 

I'd kill this IPO, let the market adjust for a couple of weeks and re-issue - at market price.  The sooner the better.  Buy back the sold shares if people would like so they're not all pissed off, if that's what it takes.

This is dead in the crib.  Recalibrate and come back at it.  As an investor I'd like to see PETA succeed, so this is more geared to be a strategy than a criticism.  Sometimes it doesn't go as planned, but that doesn't mean it's game over.....

[Anotheranonlol]

The reason dividends were going up was due to initial deployment not because reinvestment could keep up with difficulty rise.  Leaving the reinvestment rate alone means investors lose less, and you still make a healthy profit.  

Spot on! In the case of 65/35 dividend/reinvestment we cannot keep up with difficulty. This is why we are doing this IPO and changing our strategy, so we do keep up with difficulty and be able to grow large.

But this new reinvestment plan can only keep up with difficulty until August 4, 2014, as seen in your forecast in the prospectus. After that date we are in the exact same situation with not being able to keep up with the difficulty using just reinvestment funds. The only way it can sustain is if there is a big price spike in BTC before that date to buy much more miners with reinvestment funds when the reinvestment is largest and network hashrate is lowest, but then a different problem arises.

Are there any plans to to tackle this issue when it comes up again?

thats only 1 view based on one projection
you can generate thousands of multifactor exponential projections

when considering everything i think they can keep up, because they have the ability to adapt, unlike your projection
individuals miners have the same problems, yet we persist

That is not an exponential projection, it is a linear network hashrate projection. This is also not my projection it is the projection done by CryptX in the prospectus. Individual miners have the same problem but they have the ability to reinvest 100% and not worry about splitting income with other people so it is more sustainable in the long run as a solo miner. The reason I bring CryptX's projection up is because his business plan is derived from how he thinks the project will do. And it can be seen in the forecast that his own plan will start to fall apart  August 4, 2014 leading us back right to this issue.

Also one issue with what you say is "..i think they can keep up.." You are putting faith into this mining operation because you are invested in it, not looking at what is laid out in front of you in the mine operators own forecast.

If you are going to be posting silly projections that CryptX's business plan isn't based off of then there is no point in talking to you, lose all of  your investment. There is also one fatal flaw in the chart you just posted it assumes a BTC price of $4,000 by the end of this month.

The fatal flaw is hardly predicting $4,000 at the end of the month, we know that's not going to happen, it's only an example for dramatic effect..who is really looking at this chart and assuming the project will payout 3x more bitcoins than will ever exist in dividends? or that we will control a fair bit more than 100% of global hashrate just because BTC goes up 8x in value. you see any issue there??

As someone above asked; with 500$/btc instead of $450 : the sheet reports  2220 BTC extra. breakdown: 650 BTC from extra value of hardware, 1568 from extra dividends year 1. What happens when bitcoin price increases -- Interest towards mining also increases. The more valuable each coin is the more resources will go into digging them.

According to exponential diff increase till end of 2015 you would earn more, short and long term from 0% reinvestment than 35% or 80%. So will you make a case for paying 100% in dividends? Because the formula on the sheet tells you? No. because it's not profitable in reality nor congruent with the success of the operation long term.

Take a look at the BFSB site, you see a used 2.5TH machine being sold at discount, buying 400 assembled machines individually comes to about 8,700 BTC. You already know the price Cryptx has negotiated. Individual home miners are slowly being relegated out the game, it's an inevitability over time. in exahash ages how many will be running tens or hundreds of TH at home?.  It's only thanks to certain manafacturers delivering in-stock hardware that they are holding on for now and not getting brutalised by pre-order financing.

In future only large scale operations with ability to rapidly expand and either manafacture own chips or negotiate attractive bulk pricing with those that can will be able to keep a foot in the door. Mining has been heading in this direction and can't be stopped. If PETA is established as a key player in mining space and does indeed manage to continue growth for, let's say 1 year people will be no longer expecting 80% yields. It's like this now because trust hasn't been established and investors are nervous and cynical, rightly so.

Yet Cryptx has had numerous situations in the past where they've stopped, re-evaluated the bp and made changes for the long term success of this project, despite there being some whinging at the time, the complaining quieted down once that became clear.  It's not the first time dividends have been withheld in order to boost the project. And it's not the first time cryptx could of just let the project wither but chose to expand it instead, unlike clowns over at icedrill, and all numerous other hosted mining ops which have failed in the past  Look at AM. 0.72% yield. everyones waiting for the BIG boom for 109ph worth of dividends.. good old days where friedcat isn't just paying shareholders lip-service. Imagine if investors had the same confidence in peta trickling divs in order to give an earth shattering update; we'd be at 10btc per share..yet instead the announcement of withholding divs causes panic.

The reality is: We are at 500TH now. up to 1PH of Hardware is due to be deployed beginning in less than 1 week bringing capacity to as much as 3x the size.
 You can come up with your own pessimistic outlook of  maintaining (not expand) approximately 1% of the network. That allows slippage from peta's goal of 2%-- if during a period where cryptx is actively reinvesting, peta's hashrate drops behind that disproportionally, and the source of the spike is not variance or other transient surge then you can consider liquidating. until then (and *especially* if you got in early) you can work out the yield despite that is attractive.. That doesn't factor in: increased BTC price (if you are investing you should be assuming this), potential sales of hardware, previously accumulated dividends nor the value of the shares themselves.

Guys, why argue about this?  I can see if people could sell their shares, but they can't.  Seems kinda cruel.  

shareprice is up 20% from what it was averaging before, when mine is due to increase 300% capacity in short time.
what kind of long term investor would sell shares at below current PO rate they must be nervous.. price peaked above 0.1 prior to any of the recent announcements.

[dhenson]

shareprice is up 20% from what it was averaging before, when mine is due to increase 300% capacity in short time.
what kind of long term investor would sell shares at below current PO rate they must be nervous.. price peaked above 0.1 prior to any of the recent announcements.

If anyone is looking to pick up shares in bulk @ .0925 PM me (minimum 100 shares per trade).

[NotLambchop]

Guys, why argue about this?  I can see if people could sell their shares, but they can't.  Seems kinda cruel.  

shareprice is up 20% from what it was averaging before, when mine is due to increase 300% capacity in short time.
what kind of long term investor would sell shares at below current PO rate they must be nervous.. price peaked above 0.1 prior to any of the recent announcements.

As I understand it, it is impossible to sell your shares at this point, trading is closed & the market price undefined.  Which makes it hard to understand why you decided that your shares are "up 20%".  To answer your question, no kind of long or short term investor would sell shares now, the mechanics for trading simply do not exist.  dhenson is trying to unload his, but success is unlikely.

[Anotheranonlol]

Guys, why argue about this?  I can see if people could sell their shares, but they can't.  Seems kinda cruel.  

shareprice is up 20% from what it was averaging before, when mine is due to increase 300% capacity in short time.
what kind of long term investor would sell shares at below current PO rate they must be nervous.. price peaked above 0.1 prior to any of the recent announcements.

As I understand it, it is impossible to sell your shares at this point, trading is closed & the market price undefined.  Which makes it hard to understand why you decided that your shares are "up 20%".  To answer your question, no kind of long or short term investor would sell shares now, the mechanics for trading simply do not exist.  dhenson is trying to unload his, but success is unlikely.

for anyone looking to buy, the share prices are indeed up 20% from what they were trading at prior to offering of 10,000 fixing the price at what it is now. (and this was announced in advance, trading was not immediately halted) whether that will be still true after 31st may is another story.
 that is unless dhenson wants to do transfer below 0.08 now