[HAVELOCK] PETAMINE - 1,150 TH/S HASH RATE (1GH/S per Unit)

[nwfella]

Two things need to happen for cryptx to become a profitable venture for anybody but cryptx himself:
1.) Lower electric/hosting fee's.  Allegedly running off 100% green energy right now so .50/kw/h between scrypt and sha projects is just absolutely outrageous (have been harping on this point for sometime)
2.) In house chip/board development.  Obviously purchasing pre-fabbed hardware from somebody else isn't going to do one iota insofar as capturing a larger % of total hashrate is concerned.

*I seriously doubt either of these will be happening given that cryptx-sha is essentially a cex.io like GHS platform now with far less volume.  And again, he's pulling a pretty damn decent income of nearly 70BTC/week just maintaining the status quo.

[Pentax]

Two things need to happen for cryptx to become a profitable venture for anybody but cryptx himself:
1.) Lower electric/hosting fee's.  Allegedly running off 100% green energy right now so .50/kw/h between scrypt and sha projects is just absolutely outrageous (have been harping on this point for sometime)
2.) In house chip/board development.  Obviously purchasing pre-fabbed hardware from somebody else isn't going to do one iota insofar as capturing a larger % of total hashrate is concerned.

*I seriously doubt either of these will be happening given that cryptx-sha is essentially a cex.io like GHS platform now with far less volume.  And again, he's pulling a pretty damn decent income of nearly 70BTC/week just maintaining the status quo.

yep and yep.  overhead costs have to come down. hashrate has to come up, and not at retail prices, or even volume discount numbers from manufacturers.  some of that value add, ie, technical expertise has to be brought in house.  there are a range of options for that, from designing things from ground up, to purchasing hashboards/chips/PSU's/cooling and knocking them together.

*I'm hoping he realizes that this project is likely on limited time unless he changes the status quo.  I do believe in self preservation as a pretty effective motivator.  Hell who wants a real job when you can bank it on your own.

I do wonder about his experience level in running a business.  One of the hardest things for people that run their own business, and think they know everything better than anyone else possibly could, is to ask for help or admit that maybe they're in over their heads or overwhelmed.  If the path is not crystal clear put the ego aside and get the people in that can round out the mission.

[nwfella]

Two things need to happen for cryptx to become a profitable venture for anybody but cryptx himself:
1.) Lower electric/hosting fee's.  Allegedly running off 100% green energy right now so .50/kw/h between scrypt and sha projects is just absolutely outrageous (have been harping on this point for sometime)
2.) In house chip/board development.  Obviously purchasing pre-fabbed hardware from somebody else isn't going to do one iota insofar as capturing a larger % of total hashrate is concerned.

*I seriously doubt either of these will be happening given that cryptx-sha is essentially a cex.io like GHS platform now with far less volume.  And again, he's pulling a pretty damn decent income of nearly 70BTC/week just maintaining the status quo.

yep and yep.  overhead costs have to come down. hashrate has to come up, and not at retail prices, or even volume discount numbers from manufacturers.  some of that value add, ie, technical expertise has to be brought in house.  there are a range of options for that, from designing things from ground up, to purchasing hashboards/chips/PSU's/cooling and knocking them together.

*I'm hoping he realizes that this project is likely on limited time unless he changes the status quo.  I do believe in self preservation as a pretty effective motivator.  Hell who wants a real job when you can bank it on your own.

I do wonder about his experience level in running a business.  One of the hardest things for people that run their own business, and think they know everything better than anyone else possibly could, is to ask for help or admit that maybe they're in over their heads or overwhelmed.  If the path is not crystal clear put the ego aside and get the people in that can round out the mission.

Couldn't agree with you more...and obviously Cryptx is no dummy (hell, he's the only one making anything on this venture atm) so I suspect that he more than anyone is aware that this project is literally a slow-bleed at this point given no hardware reinvestment at all.  I guess only time will tell.

Though I'm pretty worried about the ego part you mention too.  Fat bitcoin wallets have a tendency to increase people's ego's I have found sadly :/

[NotLambchop]

@Pentax:  cryptx's business is not mining, but selling boutique electricity and hosting.  If that means mining SHA256, he'll do it.  If it means mining scrypt, he'll do that too, but mining is merely instrumental here--it simply makes it possible to sell electricity and hosting [stuff that he has, his "business"] at couture prices to eager Bitcoiners.

PETA's share price and profitability aren't important.  As long as he mines enough coin to continue paying his hosting fees, he's in the black.*  When BTC mined < hosting costs, he'll sell the gear and IPO something new.  If that means becoming a chip/miner manufacturer, hurrah, great IPO idea!  No reason for him to exhaust himself shoveling shit against the tide or, keeping to the pony theme, flog this dead horse.

*And as long as the rabble don't get pissed off enough revolt, but that's pretty unlikely.

[WillShill4BTC]

We are going to need a bigger float.

[nwfella]

Boy I sure do love my cryptx shares on HaveLost, I mean havelock!  /* sarcasm */

[Pentax]

@Pentax:  cryptx's business is not mining, but selling boutique electricity and hosting.  If that means mining SHA256, he'll do it.  If it means mining scrypt, he'll do that too, but mining is merely instrumental here--it simply makes it possible to sell electricity and hosting [stuff that he has, his "business"] at couture prices to eager Bitcoiners.

PETA's share price and profitability aren't important.  As long as he mines enough coin to continue paying his hosting fees, he's in the black.*  When BTC mined < hosting costs, he'll sell the gear and IPO something new.  If that means becoming a chip/miner manufacturer, hurrah, great IPO idea!  No reason for him to exhaust himself shoveling shit against the tide or, keeping to the pony theme, flog this dead horse.

*And as long as the rabble don't get pissed off enough revolt, but that's pretty unlikely.

that's not the product.  PETA delivers BTC from mining operations in the form of dividends in the same way any company charges for it's service.  yes there is overhead involved and he's taking his money.  that's business.   whether or not the overhead or his personal take is reasonable is another matter and we could debate that until the cows come home, I suppose.

I think if he's really paying .50/kwh that's insane, but that still doesn't make it a utility company.  If he is paying that for power, he should cut that shit out, as it is costing investors money, which would normally be a breach of his fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. 

even if we do look at it as if he's selling electricity/hosting, he's out of business if he has no electricity to sell, miners to host, or some other means of generating revenues, so I guess I don't care if people would like to look at it that way or not.  none of that impacts the analysis of avenues to keep the business moving forward, as these elements are inextricably linked, so it's two sides of the same coin.

we can disagree of course.  for me it's a casual conversation/analysis and I've got no problems with people disagreeing.  I've got some PETA, but not a shit-ton so while I'd like to see it succeed so investors that are in up to their eyeballs don't get raped, it doesn't matter all that much to me.  It's more about discussing ideas as a mental exercise.  the industry interests me, so I'm just talking shop.  I do see some possibilities for PETA and it will be interesting to see what exactly it does, as it's pretty clear they've gotta bust a move or they're headed out.

[stompysteve]

I would have kept riding the train but I think ill start to exit, no more people to boost my shares stats up now that its just a fixed GHS, before you could just stay in and keep getting shares that at least tried to keep up with the rising hashrate
 

[pedrog]

Lowest difficult jump in a long time.

[stompysteve]

Lowest difficult jump in a long time.

thats why im going to exit slowly, hopefully the share price goes up a little with low diff change
dropping down alot earlier

[nwfella]

Agreed on the lowest difficulty jump in a long time comment.  The calm before the storm I suspect. 

Also, cryptx isn't paying 0.50/kw/h for electricity that's just what he's charging between his sha and scrypt mining projects.  Average cost for most "green" electricity operations is somewhere around 0.026/kw/h.  so if this is what he's paying, he's effectively charging 0.224/kw/h between his two projects.  Absolutely ridiculous!  What's even more ridiculous is that I bought into him way back when he was still charging 0.50/kw/h just for his sha project.

Anyway, also looking for exit position on my remaining few shares.

[dyask]

Seems like the price of PETA is pretty volatile.   I've been able to make a little buying and selling slightly higher, but that probably won't last.   

[minerbobbert]

I would have kept riding the train but I think ill start to exit, no more people to boost my shares stats up now that its just a fixed GHS, before you could just stay in and keep getting shares that at least tried to keep up with the rising hashrate
 

With the stock split and reallocation, how are they going to go forward with this? Are they just forgoing any reinvestment in new mining equipment? Part of the reason I invested was because of the concept of being able to keep up with the rising difficulty through proportional shares as the mine expanded. How will they raise money to buy new hardware now?

[Collider]

Average cost for most "green" electricity operations is somewhere around 0.026/kw/h.  so if this is what he's paying, he's effectively charging 0.224/kw/h between his two projects.  Absolutely ridiculous!

Sorry to confront you with reality, but this is purely misinformed.

The only source of such cheap renewable energy (2-4ct/kW/h) is hydroelectric, and only if you are situated very near to the production site (and are lucky your utility company isn´t too greedy.)

Power costs for industrial use easily range from 12-18ct/kW/h in Belgium.

Please also understand that quoting pure power costs doesn´t give you the whole picture, as additional costs for physically hosting the units and providing ventilation have to be added.

As such, I believe the price to be quite fair.

[Puppet]

With the stock split and reallocation, how are they going to go forward with this? Are they just forgoing any reinvestment in new mining equipment? Part of the reason I invested was because of the concept of being able to keep up with the rising difficulty through proportional shares as the mine expanded. How will they raise money to buy new hardware now?

For an investor, this changes almost nothing. Whether crypx witholds your dividends to buy additional hashrate with your coin, or you spend waste your divs to buy more shares (ie, more hashrate) is basically the same thing. The only real difference is that you determine when to buy and at what price, so if anything, this is an improvement.

Of course it will never allow you to keep up with difficulty, but cryptx doing it for you was even less likely to achieve that.

[jaysabi]

With the stock split and reallocation, how are they going to go forward with this? Are they just forgoing any reinvestment in new mining equipment? Part of the reason I invested was because of the concept of being able to keep up with the rising difficulty through proportional shares as the mine expanded. How will they raise money to buy new hardware now?

For an investor, this changes almost nothing. Whether crypx witholds your dividends to buy additional hashrate with your coin, or you spend waste your divs to buy more shares (ie, more hashrate) is basically the same thing. The only real difference is that you determine when to buy and at what price, so if anything, this is an improvement.

Of course it will never allow you to keep up with difficulty, but cryptx doing it for you was even less likely to achieve that.

I think there's a small distinction here. Before, a "unit" was not pegged to a specific hashrate, it was simply a percentage of the overall hashrate, so when funds were reinvested by the fund and hashrate rose, your unit (in theory) appreciated due to the increased value of the hashrate it represents. That is done now. The fund has dropped the delusion of buying more mining hardware to keep up with difficulty increases to maintain its original share of the network hashrate.

Now, "reinvesting" your dividends means buying more shares worth 1gh/s each. It's static now (as opposed to before when each share was not pegged to a specific hashrate), which means "reinvesting" isn't increasing the fund's percentage of the network hashrate which will increase the value of the shares, it means you're buying more of the fund's hashrate, which with difficulty increases means you're buying shares that will continue to represent a smaller portion of the network hashrate going forward.

Bottom line, you're buying shares that are guaranteed to depreciate unless difficulty stops increasing. And the way the math has worked out so far, you're buying shares that depreciate faster than any dividends they produce.

I was interested in PETA because the prospect of reinvesting proceeds to maintain the fund's percentage of the network hashrate seemed like a novel way to run a fund. However, I've now seen that the return from mining is not great enough to allow the purchase of enough hardware to maintain any given portion of the network hashrate. Mining is simply too competitive.

I learned the hard way, but I suppose that was the only way I was going to learn. I sold out of PETA today at about a 35% loss in a month. There may be a price at which these shares will return a profit over time, but I'm not interested in trying to find out what it is. Good luck to those of you making a go of this. I hope you have better luck than I did!

[tragor]

What baffles me is that 98% of shareholders voted in favor of the change. They basically said "give me 100% now, I don't really care about the future".

[Pentax]

What baffles me is that 98% of shareholders voted in favor of the change. They basically said "give me 100% now, I don't really care about the future".

I think it would be good for everyone if Cryptx chimed in with the plan for the future.

Investors deserve this sort of basic information.  What is the vision at this point.

[jaysabi]

What baffles me is that 98% of shareholders voted in favor of the change. They basically said "give me 100% now, I don't really care about the future".

I voted for it too thinking it would unlock a little value (and it did, and I took the opportunity to liquidate). But look at what the reality was: none of the funds being set aside were being set aside to purchase new hardware. The hardware was already purchased, and the BTC being set aside for "reinvestment" was actually just paying back the loan that purchased the hardware.

Again, no funds were being used to bring additional hardware online.

Once the loan was paid off, I suppose funds could have start being compiled to increase hashrate of the fund, but based on the rate the loan was being paid off and how long it would take to then save enough to buy additional hardware, that was many months off, assuming enough would ever be saved to buy new hardware.

So the vote makes perfect sense to me. It's people voting to drop the facade of buying additional miners and peg shares to 1gh/s each in hopes of reaching price parity with cex.io shares of the same speed.

What baffles me is that 98% of shareholders voted in favor of the change. They basically said "give me 100% now, I don't really care about the future".

I think it would be good for everyone if Cryptx chimed in with the plan for the future.

Investors deserve this sort of basic information.  What is the vision at this point.

At this point, I don't think more information is warranted. You have all the information you need. Shares are worth 1gh/s each. It's not going to change. That's kind of the end of the story here for this fund, it's just a slow march towards obsolescence for these miners now.

[Pentax]

What baffles me is that 98% of shareholders voted in favor of the change. They basically said "give me 100% now, I don't really care about the future".

I voted for it too thinking it would unlock a little value (and it did, and I took the opportunity to liquidate). But look at what the reality was: none of the funds being set aside were being set aside to purchase new hardware. The hardware was already purchased, and the BTC being set aside for "reinvestment" was actually just paying back the loan that purchased the hardware.

Again, no funds were being used to bring additional hardware online.

Once the loan was paid off, I suppose funds could have start being compiled to increase hashrate of the fund, but based on the rate the loan was being paid off and how long it would take to then save enough to buy additional hardware, that was many months off, assuming enough would ever be saved to buy new hardware.

So the vote makes perfect sense to me. It's people voting to drop the facade of buying additional miners and peg shares to 1gh/s each in hopes of reaching price parity with cex.io shares of the same speed.

What baffles me is that 98% of shareholders voted in favor of the change. They basically said "give me 100% now, I don't really care about the future".

I think it would be good for everyone if Cryptx chimed in with the plan for the future.

Investors deserve this sort of basic information.  What is the vision at this point.

At this point, I don't think more information is warranted. You have all the information you need. Shares are worth 1gh/s each. It's not going to change. That's kind of the end of the story here for this fund, it's just a slow march towards obsolescence for these miners now.

you're welcome to your opinion, but that is not any information on future plans.  if you are satisfied with the info as it sits, that's fine.  I'm not.

you're out so I don't imagine you care.  for those still in this information is useful, as it would be for those looking to invest.