**CEX.IO Bitcoin Exchange ** Buy Bitcoins with Cards in iOS / Android App***

[acegilz]

UPDATE: ok on other computer its all ok. strange!

[Frost000]

I sometimes have trouble loading certain sections of the site too... Makes trading very frustrating at times.

[dyask]

UPDATE: ok on other computer its all ok. strange!

Happens all the time with CEX.io ... too much poorly written scripts.

[Maidak]

clear your cache and use chrome i've not once had an issue however today there was a maintenance that may of caused some issues.

[dyask]

clear your cache and use chrome i've not once had an issue however today there was a maintenance that may of caused some issues.

Actually I do use chrome for the site, and it works better than IE.  Still there are lots of problems on some computers.   

[finder_keeper]

I'm just beginning to look into this.  If you buy in, do you get "dividends", and if so, how often are they paid out?    What is the downside to buying and holding while the hardware mines?  is it that difficulty will keep going up so you'll get less and less in dividends?  Then your only hope would be if the price of BTC goes up, right?

...

It can be a lot of fun and it isn't hard to make BTC there.   I started keeping track after I broke even.  (My first buys were just before Christmas and the price of GHS is 1/3 lower now.)   In the last 12 days I'm up over 5%.   That is a combination of mining and trading.  Right now if you just mine and the price of GHS stayed constant, you would make about .5% a day.   So my trading is mostly just protecting my value.

This is not very encouraging - Making 0.5% per day while losing 50% in less than a month sounds like a losing strategy.

[Thom]

This is not very encouraging - Making 0.5% per day while losing 50% in less than a month sounds like a losing strategy.

While I've recently maintained that the smart move @ cex is more in the trading than mining, I came to a few theoretical conclusions:

as we see • the value of GHS goes up and down, but mostly down, so mining rewards are outweighed by the slow drop in GHS value
therefore: • a balance constantly split 50/50 between BTC and GHS will stay (approximately) stable regardless of GHS value shifts
therefore: • a bot doing just that in a cex account will retain the initial BTC investment, and any mining on top of that is pure profit

In theory, it's the "safe" way to mine. So here's a peek at the bot I built to test that theory, and wow was I right!
It's not ready for release, being only 2 days old, and I'd like to test it through much more dramatic GHS value fluctuations than we've had for the last few days before considering it reliable enough to be ready for release.

I called it Librium. After the film Equilibrium. It seemed appropriate. Except it won't shoot you in the face to maintain balance.



I'll let Librium do the talking in the screengrab. The pane on the left is an account that's mostly about hardware miners, and the right pane is an account that only holds GHS: no hardware, no referrals.

The thing that scares me about using tradebots is how they can make a loss a human could have avoided. It's hard to know what config to give your bot while you sleep. Librium will hopefully put an end to that - finally, because of cex's unique trading/mining nature, a tradebot can exist that's all about giving one's balance a sense of balance, making sure it doesn't slip away in value while you're not looking, and folding all those mining rewards back into the very balanced balance. It would be utterly, utterly pointless at any other exchange. @ cex, it's awesome!

I might be persuadable to let a small handful of Librium betas out into the wild soon for tech savvy users if those who want it make a new cex account with my referral link in which to use it. That way I can still benefit from long hours of botcraft and not charge anything for it.
Donations would also make me enthusiastic to finish it, and under such circumstances, donators will of course get it first.

[MoreBloodWine]

Does anyone know where I can get that script that runs in the taskbar that buys Gh/s or your based on the settings you choose ?

[develCuy]

Implemented a web based assistant to reinvest earnings.

[CEXchanger]

The site is taking so much of my free time so is available for sale, make your offer to info (at) wy.si, perhaps you have more free time than me to make it evolve further.

[dyask]

This is not very encouraging - Making 0.5% per day while losing 50% in less than a month sounds like a losing strategy.

While I've recently maintained that the smart move @ cex is more in the trading than mining, I came to a few theoretical conclusions:

as we see • the value of GHS goes up and down, but mostly down, so mining rewards are outweighed by the slow drop in GHS value
therefore: • a balance constantly split 50/50 between BTC and GHS will stay (approximately) stable regardless of GHS value shifts
therefore: • a bot doing just that in a cex account will retain the initial BTC investment, and any mining on top of that is pure profit

That is an interesting theory and one that is pretty easy to build a bot for.  By itself it won't work, but when the market is flat to up or just slightly down it would work.   You have to avoid the big drops though.   Still in interesting approach.   A small amount of back-testing shows it fails if you stay in the market while the price is in a fast plunge.   You probably haven't tried it during such a period.   The only thing to do then is to go 100% back into BTC.   That makes the plunge worse, but it keep you from losing money.   

It is unclear how much you can make from the back and forth trades, probably more than mining in a good market. 

[cesmak]

Someone else has now a cloudflare error 521 (web server down) from cex.io web site ? Or just only me ?


Edit : Just restarted !

[dyask]

Someone else has now a cloudflare error 521 (web server down) from cex.io web site ? Or just only me ?

Up again.

[ahmedjadoon]

Is it possible price of GHs rise due to BTC fall

[Thom]

That is an interesting theory and one that is pretty easy to build a bot for.  By itself it won't work, but when the market is flat to up or just slightly down it would work.   You have to avoid the big drops though.   Still in interesting approach.   A small amount of back-testing shows it fails if you stay in the market while the price is in a fast plunge.   You probably haven't tried it during such a period.   The only thing to do then is to go 100% back into BTC.   That makes the plunge worse, but it keep you from losing money.  

I'm not entirely sure what method you backtested the theory with, but Librium works precisely because it doesn't care about ups or down, it just equalises the balances every chance it gets. A backtest that makes a loss (or indeed a gain when mining rewards aren't considered) isn't the bot I'm describing, because I invented this bot specifically to reduce/nullify losses.

So far it's working nicely, and modest as the gains are, it's much more than when one is mining and holding all GHS, and less terrifying than letting a more ambitious tradebot handle my cex (and potentially make a loss) while I sleep. In fact during the last hour of cex's charts sloping downwards, it's made a profit. As expected! Approximately the same profit per hour as during the rise last night. As expected!

Here's the account that just holds GHS:

Code:

Feb 14 2014 09:18:36   -> BTC 0.3163460100 BTC
Feb 14 2014 09:18:36   -> GHS 12.8832026400 GHS
--------------------- UPTIME: 12.8880261050 hrs Loop533
----------------- STARTFOLIO: 0.6276280300 BTC total
------------------ MINE RATE: 0.0003780077 BTC / hr
------------------ PORTFOLIO: 0.6324998028 BTC total
--------------------- PROFIT: 0.0048717728 BTC total

and here's the account with hardware miners:

Code:

Feb 14 2014 09:18:19   -> BTC 0.0139838700 BTC
Feb 14 2014 09:18:19   -> GHS 0.5686118200 GHS
--------------------- UPTIME: 15.5889653464 hrs Loop665
----------------- STARTFOLIO: 0.0261674960 BTC total
------------------ MINE RATE: 0.0001128189 BTC / hr
------------------ PORTFOLIO: 0.0279262258 BTC total
--------------------- PROFIT: 0.0017587298 BTC total

It'll get its own thread soon one I've tested it further. Weird to hope for a downswing in the cexgraphs, but that's what I need to stress-test it.

[dyask]

That is an interesting theory and one that is pretty easy to build a bot for.  By itself it won't work, but when the market is flat to up or just slightly down it would work.   You have to avoid the big drops though.   Still in interesting approach.   A small amount of back-testing shows it fails if you stay in the market while the price is in a fast plunge.   You probably haven't tried it during such a period.   The only thing to do then is to go 100% back into BTC.   That makes the plunge worse, but it keep you from losing money.  

I'm not entirely sure what method you backtested the theory with, but Librium works precisely because it doesn't care about ups or down, it just equalises the balances every chance it gets. A backtest that makes a loss (or indeed a gain when mining rewards aren't considered) isn't the bot I'm describing, because I invented this bot specifically to reduce/nullify losses.

Say you have 50% BTC at a price of .025 (It was just there) and the value is 1 BTC  
BTC - .5   GHS - 20

Now the price is .0244  (actually less than an hour later.)   A drop of 2.4% and your code adjusts to maintain the 50/50 split
20 * 0.0244 = .488    1/2 of different is .006 BTC
so
BTC - .494   GHS -  20.2459  ===>  The value is .988 BTC    

.012 BTC is a huge amount to make up mining and this is a very modest drop.   (Actually the price is now .02411, even lower)

On 1/11 the price of GHS was .049 and now the price is about 50% less.   There simply isn't anyway to not have a loss if you were in GHS the whole time, even if it was only 50% GHS.   The trading profits and mining won't make up 25% loss if you are taking the losses.  

I'm very pro CEX and I love bots, I've written 3 myself.  Your idea has some merit, but you have to step out of plunging markets that happen from time to time for it to be successful.  The current scheme is losing you BTC as I type this.   Maybe not much but it isn't making a gain right now.  If we drop down to the mid-teens, which will happen sometime in the future you may have a loss you can't recover from.   The problem is that the price doesn't always recover, long-term it is steeply down and you have to plan on that.   

That may change in the future but as long as mining is expanding as quickly as it has, GHS has to reduce in price. 

[Thom]

The current scheme is losing you BTC as I type this.

And yet:

Code:

--------------------- UPTIME: 16.8648844859 hrs Loop727
----------------- STARTFOLIO: 0.0261674960 BTC total
------------------ MINE RATE: 0.0000962622 BTC / hr
------------------ PORTFOLIO: 0.0277909467 BTC total
--------------------- PROFIT: 0.0016234507 BTC total

It isn't!

There's more to it than just my three theories as stated, and although the profit rises *and* falls every loop, it rises overall.

Edit: it loops every minute. Sure it might make pretty bad losses if the interval were longer. It's also hella in progress, and last night i left it in what i'm now calling "massively overzealous mode". Hence fluctuation.

[dyask]

The current scheme is losing you BTC as I type this.

And yet:

Code:

--------------------- UPTIME: 16.8648844859 hrs Loop727
----------------- STARTFOLIO: 0.0261674960 BTC total
------------------ MINE RATE: 0.0000962622 BTC / hr
------------------ PORTFOLIO: 0.0277909467 BTC total
--------------------- PROFIT: 0.0016234507 BTC total

It isn't!

There's more to it than just my three theories as stated, and although the profit rises *and* falls every loop, it rises overall.

Edit: it loops every minute. Sure it might make pretty bad losses if the interval were longer. It's also hella in progress, and last night i left it in what i'm now calling "massively overzealous mode". Hence fluctuation.

What you are showing is the portfolio declining.   (From .02792 to .02779)  Your idea won't work well when the market drops fast.   Now it is down to .02401 from .025 which is about a 4% move.   So you lost about 1% and the price was higher at the time of your post.   Not horrible but you are losing ground.   From 1/11 to 2/9 the price mostly dropped by about 50%.  Your bot would probably be 10% or more under for the period.  Not horrible for the market, but still losing.   You are correct that the mining helps.   Still if the bot is mining during the steep price declines it will lose ground.    Much of the time the approach is fine, but it is horrible for when the price is dropping.   I would suggest you build in an indicator to know when the price is likely to decline and then take action on that.  Using an MACD would probably really help limit the loses.   

Another simple thing is to put in a liquidate and terminate feature, so the bot moves one to BTC and turns off on demand.  It is simply silly to try and ride a fast price decline if it can be helped.   

It is possible your bot is doing more than what was described.   I was commenting on your describe approach of maintaining a 50/50 balance between GHS/BTC, it simply isn't enough.    Also you are pushing for people to use your bot, in fact you are trying to sell it with the payment being an account setup with a referral.   You make it sound like a sure thing.  Buyer beware.     

Oh and as for your once a minute comment ... I wrote a trader bot that worked as fast as 15 times a minute.   Another problem you will face is slippage in a fast moving market.   

[Thom]

It is possible your bot is doing more than what was described.   I was commenting on your describe approach of maintaining a 50/50 balance between GHS/BTC, it simply isn't enough.    Also you are pushing for people to use your bot, in fact you are trying to sell it with the payment being an account setup with a referral.   You make it sound like a sure thing.  Buyer beware.      

Oh and as for your once a minute comment ... I wrote a trader bot that worked as fast as 15 times a minute.   Another problem you will face is slippage in a fast moving market.  

Yeah it's got easing and leaning, and I left it rolling last night on less-than-favourable settings on purpose, and it still made a (small) profit, which was my point.

Plus I'm not selling it at all, I'm not into that. I am into giving betas to savvy users who can read bitcoinwisdom and edit the config file and give constructive feedback though, and since i'm a whole lot less moneyed than a lot of folks round here who'd like to protect their investments, a referral or a donation for a prerelease version seemed a good middle ground. And I concur: Caveat emptor at all times.
Plus: There's only any point in asking for referrals if they're gonna hold GHS, which they won't unless they're seeing profit. Good bot makes good referrals. Such is my quest.

Secondly yeah last night's run on overzealous settings is slowly proving to me that i need to give it toggles and sensors so it can lean harder on GHS or BTC as the situation demands. Right now it just follows its orders giving nary a hoot for the GHSBTC rate.

In theory, fast upslides *and* downslides are unfavourable to a balanced balance, because in terms of cex and 2 assets only, if your GHS is down, your BTC is up. Technically. After a rise in GHS value, it would hold less GHS and mine less. The aim of this bot is to *enjoy* the constant GHS price drop, which means more GHS therefore more BTC earnings, and as long as you sell out one day before BTC is all mined out of any profitability whatsoever, you're good.

At the moment using DEMA/MACD bot/s for dramatic candles and librium when I can't be near my machine is turning out good, even with librium playing wild while I hone the config values.

[itod]

The aim of this bot is to *enjoy* the constant GHS price drop, which means more GHS therefore more BTC earnings, and as long as you sell out one day before BTC is all mined out of any profitability whatsoever, you're good.

Will you please open a new thread and advertise your tool there, here it is completely off-topic. It wouldn't be so annoying if your solution was not closed source, but considering there are many sophisticated open source bots out there, nobody will fall for your closed source experiment when there are so many fantastic solutions to choose from.

[Thom]

Will you please open a new thread and advertise your tool there, here it is completely off-topic. It wouldn't be so annoying if your solution was not closed source, but considering there are many sophisticated open source bots out there, nobody will fall for your closed source experiment when there are so many fantastic solutions to choose from.

You're annoying yourself over nothing with the closedsource-ness though, all I've said about that is that it's python. All assumptions of it being closedsource if/when it's released are indeed assumptions, and I have what is currently the only instance of it, so what's to advertise?

As stated, a thread of its own to announce it is precisely the plan once it's release-ready, but I'm not inclined to release until it's solid enough to not make major losses when noob users of it ain't looking. Since many a post about cex contains many asks of 'is it profitable', I built this bot to address this exact issue, so to this thread i went to post a screengrab for opinions and to see if anyone's enthusiastic/brave enough to want a prerelease. Didn't aim to dominate the thread.

Now there's more discussion about it than a post or two, I'll spawn a fresh thread.