[TEK] TEKcoin Hi-PoS hybrid pos/pow no premine/ipo/ico

[Trimegistus]

Guys,

I've been reading all your posts concerning the wait for the difficulty to be at the right level to stake and I've decided to invite all of you to join me in a very easy math exercise.

Let's assume someone has a 100k block, shall we?

1st scenario - high difficulty (stake rate 10%)

30 days - 100,000+10% = 110,000
60 days - 110,000+10% = 121,000
90 days - 121,000+10% = 133,100

2nd scenario - wait 90 days for low difficulty (stake rate 40%)

90 days - 100,000+40% = 140,000

Now, these are extreme conditions and in reality one has to very unlucky to stake at 10% three months in a row, or to be very lucky to stake at exactly 40% after three months.

real life scenario 1 - high difficulty (stake rate 12%-15%)

30 days - 100,000+12% = 112,000
60 days - 112,000+15% = 128,800
90 days - 128,800+12% = 144,256

real life scenario 2 - wait 90 days for low difficulty (stake rate 35%)

90 days - 100,000+35% = 135,000

I know, this has nothing to do with the micro stakers conspiracy. What I'm trying to show is that IMHO if we want to gamble on luck we might as well stake every 30 days because there are good odds at getting a better income.

In reality, with a bit of luck one can stake at 25% or maybe even at 35% only after 30 days! So why the wait?

Not for me... I stake every month, consolidate my blocks, and hope for the best.

Cheers!  

[m33]

Guys,

I've been reading all your posts concerning the wait for the difficulty to be at the right level to stake and I've decided to invite all of you to join me in a very easy math exercise.

Let's assume someone has a 100k block, shall we?

1st scenario - high difficulty (stake rate 10%)

30 days - 100,000+10% = 110,000
60 days - 110,000+10% = 121,000
90 days - 121,000+10% = 133,100

2nd scenario - wait 90 days for low difficulty (stake rate 40%)

90 days - 100,000+40% = 140,000

Now, these are extreme conditions and in reality one has to very unlucky to stake at 10% three months in a row, or to be very lucky to stake at exactly 40% after three months.

real life scenario 1 - high difficulty (stake rate 12%-15%)

30 days - 100,000+12% = 112,000
60 days - 112,000+15% = 128,800
90 days - 128,800+12% = 144,256

real life scenario 2 - wait 90 days for low difficulty (stake rate 35%)

90 days - 100,000+35% = 135,000

I know, this has nothing to do with the micro stakers conspiracy. What I'm trying to show is that IMHO if we want to gamble on luck we might as well stake every 30 days because there are good odds at getting a better income.

In reality, with a bit of luck one can stake at 25% or maybe even at 35% only after 30 days! So why the wait?

Not for me... I stake every month, consolidate my blocks, and hope for the best.

Cheers!  

That's what I have been doing , but last stake yield was only 6.5-8.5% , 140k staked 9700++. So it would seem if yield is below 10% , than the next thing would be to wait the 90 days

[Trimegistus]

That's what I have been doing , but last stake yield was only 6.5-8.5% , 140k staked 9700++. So it would seem if yield is below 10% , than the next thing would be to wait the 90 days

I'll never wait for more than 30 days. That's my bet and I understand the risks.

But there are absolutely no guarantees to get a better return after 60 or 90 days.

[Joebwan]

Guys,

I've been reading all your posts concerning the wait for the difficulty to be at the right level to stake and I've decided to invite all of you to join me in a very easy math exercise.

Let's assume someone has a 100k block, shall we?

1st scenario - high difficulty (stake rate 10%)

30 days - 100,000+10% = 110,000
60 days - 110,000+10% = 121,000
90 days - 121,000+10% = 133,100

2nd scenario - wait 90 days for low difficulty (stake rate 40%)

90 days - 100,000+40% = 140,000

Now, these are extreme conditions and in reality one has to very unlucky to stake at 10% three months in a row, or to be very lucky to stake at exactly 40% after three months.

real life scenario 1 - high difficulty (stake rate 12%-15%)

30 days - 100,000+12% = 112,000
60 days - 112,000+15% = 128,800
90 days - 128,800+12% = 144,256

real life scenario 2 - wait 90 days for low difficulty (stake rate 35%)

90 days - 100,000+35% = 135,000

I know, this has nothing to do with the micro stakers conspiracy. What I'm trying to show is that IMHO if we want to gamble on luck we might as well stake every 30 days because there are good odds at getting a better income.

In reality, with a bit of luck one can stake at 25% or maybe even at 35% only after 30 days! So why the wait?

Not for me... I stake every month, consolidate my blocks, and hope for the best.

Cheers!  

That's what I have been doing , but last stake yield was only 6.5-8.5% , 140k staked 9700++. So it would seem if yield is below 10% , than the next thing would be to wait the 90 days

I don't believe that is quite how it works.  The 90 days would be prorated at whatever the current stake rate is for the extra days beyond 30, so the yield would be much higher.

[Trimegistus]

I don't believe that is quite how it works.  The 90 days would be prorated at whatever the current stake rate is for the extra days beyond 30, so the yield would be much higher.

That might be true. But still, in the present conditions you'll be lucky to get 40% after 90 days. That's my point... 

[a_cat_named_joe]

... I know, this has nothing to do with the micro stakers conspiracy ...

In my humble opinion (no laughs please, I can be humble on occasion ...  ), you acknowledge a main flaw in your calculation.

The micro-stakers do exist. They have defended their strategy in this and other threads. Their work can be seen by using PressTab's block explorer - the amount they stake, the difficulty they inflict upon the rest of us, and the carpeting of low percentages ... that is until they stake at the most opportune time with their big hitters.

The odds are in the favour of the micro-staking House. Over time, that will tend to make ordinary investors increasingly irrelevant with regards to staking.

There is another aspect to large scale micro-staking that should be considered i.e. in the wrong hands, it is a massive security threat.

[Trimegistus]

In my humble opinion (no laughs please, I can be humble on occasion ...  ), you acknowledge a main flaw in your calculation.

The micro-stakers do exist. They have defended their strategy in this and other threads. Their work can be seen by using PressTab's block explorer - the amount they stake, the difficulty they inflict on the rest of us, and the carpet of low percentages ... that is until they stake at the most opportune time with their big hitters.

The odds are in the favour of the micro-staking House. Over time, that will tend to make ordinary investors increasingly irrelevant with regards to staking.

There is another aspect to large scale micro-staking that should be considered i.e. in the wrong hands, it is a massive security threat.

Indeed, that's a fact.

What I meant was that my calculations were disregarding the existence of those micro-stakers. Why? Because we never know exactly when they are going to hit!

Therefore, I keep staking at 30 days interval. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. That's the nature of the game!

[a_cat_named_joe]

@ Trimegistus

Micro-staking strategy was a game-changer. Are you saying that you are quite happy with that?

To all investors:

Another game-changer could be decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty - and coding in a framework that includes the linking of the percentage payout to the coin supply. How do you all feel about bringing in this much needed Spring clean?

[Trimegistus]

@ Trimegistus

Micro-staking strategy was a game-changer. Are you saying that you are quite happy with that?

To all investors:

Another game-changer could be decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty - and coding in a framework, which includes the linking of the percentage payout to the coin supply. How do you all feel about bringing in this much needed Spring clean?

Absolutely not! I'm not happy at all! But, taking into account that the solution is still far from being consensual (with or without hardfork) and apparently is not going to happen anytime soon, I prefer to ignore them!

Get it? I do not approve those tactics, but I try to ignore them! I cannot fight them, therefore I pretend they don't even exist!

I know they are real, but I don't let them rule my staking rhythm. That's all my saying... 

[a_cat_named_joe]

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

[Enema]

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

This solution was already posted last October, but as usual nobody of the TEK team or any dev cared to reply....
I guess they have a reason to keep this retarded POS scheme.
Just as BigToe had a reason to keep all TEK on the exchange rather then staking in his wallet.

[thundertoe]

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

This solution was already posted last October, but as usual nobody of the TEK team or any dev cared to reply....
I guess they have a reason to keep this retarded POS scheme.
Just as BigToe had a reason to keep all TEK on the exchange rather then staking in his wallet.

wrong i lost no TEKcoin, just everything else but thanks. i actually have still been buying lately and have the most TEKcoin i ever have had right now... almost no btc or usd though so yay.

[Biomech]

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

I actually prefer the schema that Thundertoe had proposed, where anything <1K is not eligible for stake. Doesn't completely stop microstaking, but it certainly changes the game.

[Enema]

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

This solution was already posted last October, but as usual nobody of the TEK team or any dev cared to reply....
I guess they have a reason to keep this retarded POS scheme.
Just as BigToe had a reason to keep all TEK on the exchange rather then staking in his wallet.

wrong i lost no TEKcoin, just everything else but thanks. i actually have still been buying lately and have the most TEKcoin i ever have had right now... almost no btc or usd though so yay.

Well that wasn't clear in your postings, thanks for the correction.
Still leaves one question :
Why not changing interest rate with coin supply instead of diff ?

EDIT :

Dev have some bounty for my image ? send some Tek thanks my TEK BjwXR2Bfv7MrpEomj8vyYUrEZ996DRJD3r

Sorry I have nothing i lost everything at crapsy.

Here you clearly wrote you lost everything...
OSMIUM will be glad with your bonus for his nice work, in case you have not sent him any.  

[Joebwan]

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

I actually prefer the schema that Thundertoe had proposed, where anything <1K is not eligible for stake. Doesn't completely stop microstaking, but it certainly changes the game.

Since difficulty is a function of coin supply indirectly already, I am more in favor of the <1K thing. Maybe a flat rate of 5% up to 1K TEK, this way folks with small holding still have incentive, but anyone with quantity has motivation to coin control.

[Biomech]

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

This solution was already posted last October, but as usual nobody of the TEK team or any dev cared to reply....
I guess they have a reason to keep this retarded POS scheme.
Just as BigToe had a reason to keep all TEK on the exchange rather then staking in his wallet.

wrong i lost no TEKcoin, just everything else but thanks. i actually have still been buying lately and have the most TEKcoin i ever have had right now... almost no btc or usd though so yay.

Well that wasn't clear in your postings, thanks for the correction.
Still leaves one question :
Why not changing interest rate with coin supply instead of diff ?

EDIT :

Dev have some bounty for my image ? send some Tek thanks my TEK BjwXR2Bfv7MrpEomj8vyYUrEZ996DRJD3r

Sorry I have nothing i lost everything at crapsy.

Here you clearly wrote you lost everything...
OSMIUM will be glad with your bonus for his nice work, in case you have not sent him any.  

I'm somewhat familiar with Thundertoe's problems. It's personal and I'll not go into it without his permission. Let's just say he has been having a rough time with finances. Cut the guy some slack.

[a_cat_named_joe]

Let's all agree to that. Biomech your post came in just as I was writing this ...

[a_cat_named_joe]

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

I actually prefer the schema that Thundertoe had proposed, where anything <1K is not eligible for stake. Doesn't completely stop microstaking, but it certainly changes the game.

Since difficulty is a function of coin supply indirectly already, I am more in favor of the <1K thing. Maybe a flat rate of 5% up to 1K TEK, this way folks with small holding still have incentive, but anyone with quantity has motivation to coin control.

The <1K solutions single out the poor for low grade, or 0% staking. I am against this, even though I have a large holding. We shouldn't be penalising the poor. My view is that we should be encouraging newcomers to Tek and shouldn't be putting up barriers to those from around the world, and to those in our own nations who are economically challenged. The more, the merrier in my book. The <1k solution doesn't stop microstaking and could make it worse since 1k+ could become the new microstake.

The linking of the staking % to the coin supply works well with HoboNickels, although HBN does also have a staking cap which is not being suggested here. I'll be away for the next 10 days, but hope to pop in occasionally when time allows.

I notice some strong feelings being aired, but let's keep this business-like. Getting into arguments could obscure what we are trying to do here.

Who is against the staking % being cut loose from the difficulty and linked to the coin supply?
Who prefers the the <1k solution?

[walkdev]

Let's press for a consensus and then put it to Thundertoe. After all Tek isn't a democracy. He decides what he thinks is the best way forward.

So who doesn't agree with a fix that includes decoupling the link between the percentage payout and the difficulty, and links the percentage payout to the coin supply?

I actually prefer the schema that Thundertoe had proposed, where anything <1K is not eligible for stake. Doesn't completely stop microstaking, but it certainly changes the game.

Since difficulty is a function of coin supply indirectly already, I am more in favor of the <1K thing. Maybe a flat rate of 5% up to 1K TEK, this way folks with small holding still have incentive, but anyone with quantity has motivation to coin control.

The <1K solutions single out the poor for low grade, or 0% staking. I am against this, even though I have a large holding. We shouldn't be penalising the poor. My view is that we should be encouraging newcomers to Tek and shouldn't be putting up barriers to those from around the world, and to those in our own nations who are economically challenged. The more, the merrier in my book.

The linking of the staking % to the coin supply works well with HoboNickels, although HBN does also have a staking cap which is not being suggested here. I'll be away for the next 10 days, but hope to pop in occasionally when time allows.

I notice some strong feelings being aired, but let's keep this business-like. Getting into arguments could obscure what we are trying to do here.

Who is against the staking % being cut loose from the difficulty and linked to the coin supply?
Who prefers the the <1k solutiion?

I'm with Biomech... Or something similar, where people are 'rewarded' for blocks of 1k or over with a higher rate.

The number of blocks that stake at about 30 TEK, producing two blocks of, for example, 18 TEK which go on to produce 4 blocks of 11 TEK, etc... It's nuts. That's precisely why the difficulty has been growing every month and hitting levels that I've not seen since I started investing in TEK well over a year ago... Anything that falls under the 1k threshold could carry a reduced interest rate without pushing the difficulty up so much...

At least that way, the beginner gets something per month. And with TEK at the current price (let's assume that 500k = 1BTC, which for the sake of argument might be $500...), 1k would equate to about $1 - doesn't seem to be too unreasonable an investment for someone new to TEK, does it?

[a_cat_named_joe]

If you have millions of Tek, you can afford to split a sizeable portion into masses of 1k+ blocks and still punch heavy with big stakers. That makes staking skewed in the favour of the larger account holders. It shouldn't be too difficult for anyone who is proficient in putting a command line together to recombine and split back into 1k+ stakes.

Regarding the proposal of a reduced rate of interest of 5% for others, we should be prepared to take that medicine ourselves ... 5% for all, and a timetabled sliding scale leading towards it. How would that go down with all you high rollers? That wouldn't solve the microstaking issue, but it would go a long way to putting a break on the coin supply.

So, that's three so far who have come out in favour of the <1k barrier. Not many.

Nobody, out of the millions of people worldwide, has yet come out totally against linking % payouts to the coin supply, so it looks like that solution is way ahead (see how things can be skewed the other way ).

So let's hear it from those who are against the %/coin supply link. Knowing that, I suggest we then look at what else could be viable, including <1k+.