Let There Be Dark! Bitcoin Dark Wallet

[neutrinox]

This some new   

So point me the problem then?

[1715572899]

1715572899

[1715572899]

1715572899

[Trader Steve]

This sounds exciting. I've been following the CoinJoin thread for a while and would love to see this implemented. Making a donation now.

[genjix]

50% raised in 24 hours (including BTC donations)

looks like electrum, hive and libbitcoin are going to find a way we can all work together. everybody wins because developers can focus on one thing and we can build a diverse modular opensource software ecosystem. with the libbitcoin, obelisk, sx, mixer, proxy broadcaster, python desktop libs, python desktop core (electrum) and interfaces created by hive team, we will have an awesome setup for everyone.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322483.0

I was already before developing electrum, and hive wallet is doing a really good job at what I was trying to achieve before (and not getting far). all our projects can help each other, and I aim with the crowdfunding to offer common infrastructure towards this effort.

[Unluckyduck]

Lol backers will be left in the dark for sure.

[b!z]

Can someone explain how their donation address starts with a 3, and not 1? https://blockchain.info/address/32wRDBezxnazSBxMrMqLWqD1ajwEqnDnMc

I think I read somewhere that Bitcoin addresses can only start with 1, and the feature for addresses starting with 3 has not been developed yet.

[waxwing]

Can someone explain how their donation address starts with a 3, and not 1? https://blockchain.info/address/32wRDBezxnazSBxMrMqLWqD1ajwEqnDnMc

I think I read somewhere that Bitcoin addresses can only start with 1, and the feature for addresses starting with 3 has not been developed yet.

It has been developed and in place for quite a while.

Multisignature addresses on the main network always start with a 3. They can be used to give more than one person control over the spending out from that address. Example: any 3 people, from a total of 5, would have to agree in order to spend the coins stored at that address. I believe that's the case in this instance, although in general it can be "any N people out of M".

[The 4ner]

Dark Wallet needs $50k to finish its development and testing

Why do they need $50k for that? are they hiring a software firm? Are they using the money to compensate themselves for the work they put in?

Their "dark wallet" is a browser plugin, so it's probably connecting to a third party server. Unless the plugin directly connects to the bitcoin network, it's far less secure and anonymous than the satoshi client.

A quick skim of their indiegogo page shows more idealism and buzzwords than any actual planning. This is mirrored by the massive gap between what they want for bitcoin (anonymity, resistance to censorship, anti corporation/goverment), and what they've done (browser plugin wallet).

tl;dr: a group with more ideals than work wants money

My thoughts exactly!

[hivewallet]

Dark Wallet needs $50k to finish its development and testing

Why do they need $50k for that? are they hiring a software firm? Are they using the money to compensate themselves for the work they put in?

Their "dark wallet" is a browser plugin, so it's probably connecting to a third party server. Unless the plugin directly connects to the bitcoin network, it's far less secure and anonymous than the satoshi client.

A quick skim of their indiegogo page shows more idealism and buzzwords than any actual planning. This is mirrored by the massive gap between what they want for bitcoin (anonymity, resistance to censorship, anti corporation/goverment), and what they've done (browser plugin wallet).

tl;dr: a group with more ideals than work wants money

More ideals than work? That's unfair. Amir and his team have borne quite a bit of impressive fruit over the years. Here is a small sampling of it:

libbitcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30646.0;all
sx wallet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291576.0
coinjoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg3016952#msg3016952

If you use your imagination I'm sure you can see that these components not only lead credibility to the project, but paint a clear picture of where it actually begins. Still, the unfortunately reality is that software development takes time -- a lot of time. If the developer(s) in question are not independently wealthy and wish to focus on the work without distraction, that time costs money. $50K seems conservative to us for such an ambitious project.

[grue]

Dark Wallet needs $50k to finish its development and testing

Why do they need $50k for that? are they hiring a software firm? Are they using the money to compensate themselves for the work they put in?

Their "dark wallet" is a browser plugin, so it's probably connecting to a third party server. Unless the plugin directly connects to the bitcoin network, it's far less secure and anonymous than the satoshi client.

A quick skim of their indiegogo page shows more idealism and buzzwords than any actual planning. This is mirrored by the massive gap between what they want for bitcoin (anonymity, resistance to censorship, anti corporation/goverment), and what they've done (browser plugin wallet).

tl;dr: a group with more ideals than work wants money

More ideals than work? That's unfair. Amir and his team have borne quite a bit of impressive fruit over the years. Here is a small sampling of it:

libbitcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30646.0;all
sx wallet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291576.0
coinjoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg3016952#msg3016952

what you have planned: browser plugin wallet with coin mixing.

What you have on your indegogo page:

We are interested in scaling up the Bitcoin infrastructure in an intentionally subversive and empowering direction- taking Bitcoin just where it has been threatening to go. Towards an integrity of values, and a neutrality promoted by anonymity and a resistance to censorship. Software can stand for something.
[...]
Bitcoin is the next battle ground in the fight against supranational political domination. Nation states harrass their governed populations with parades of open lies, and dedicate their time to the modern statist paradigm: developing emergency powers and containing the growth of new technologies. Digital anonymity and freedom of financial speech are some of the last tools left in the dwindling garrisons of Liberty.

We are by turns threatened and mocked by neoliberal social engineers and their Boomer bagmen. We face an "architecture of oppression."

Tell me how your "dark wallet" is going to solve those problems, or is that just rhetoric?

If you use your imagination I'm sure you can see that these components not only lead credibility to the project, but paint a clear picture of where it actually begins. Still, the unfortunately reality is that software development takes time -- a lot of time. If the developer(s) in question are not independently wealthy and wish to focus on the work without distraction, that time costs money. $50K seems conservative to us for such an ambitious project.

In other words, you're using the indegogo/bitcoin funds to pay yourselves.

[genjix]

https://darkwallet.unsystem.net/whydw.html

50k won't go far if we pay salaries. we have to be smart with the money and invest in common permanent infrastructure. we should find better ways to pay for ongoing costs by creating sustainable businesses.

[hivewallet]

libbitcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30646.0;all
sx wallet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291576.0
coinjoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg3016952#msg3016952

what you have planned: browser plugin wallet with coin mixing.

Developers building a "browser plugin with coin mixing" could easily blow through $50K after many rounds of integration, design and testing. Perhaps the free software world is not accustomed such concepts, but anyone who does this for a living can surely attest that this is correct.

It may or may not be obvious that part of any experimental development process is exploration through prototyping. The end result may be significantly different than what is being suggested in the indiegogo project, but there is little doubt on this side that it will achieve the same result and more. If you don't concur or find the project's scope somehow disagreeable, don't donate.

Finally, let us clearly state that Hive is not on the receiving end of money from this project, nor are we officially affiliated with it. There have been some discussions about involvement, but that's as far as it has gone.

[El Extranjero]

I'm shocked at how many donations were given overnight. Just yesterday they were only at about 1,000$
Now I see they received 20+ thousand dollars in donations! WTF!

[600watt]

https://darkwallet.unsystem.net/whydw.html

50k won't go far if we pay salaries. we have to be smart with the money and invest in common permanent infrastructure. we should find better ways to pay for ongoing costs by creating sustainable businesses.

genjix, your work rocks. thank you and the team for your vision. you bring street cred to bitcoin. congrats to fundraising success.

awesome style.

and the video... wow.

[TheButterZone]

I wonder if this was a competition of Dark Wallet vs reference client's (insert controversial feature here), who would raise more funds.

[Gavin Andresen]

50k won't go far if we pay salaries. we have to be smart with the money and invest in common permanent infrastructure. we should find better ways to pay for ongoing costs by creating sustainable businesses.

Exactly right, in my humble opinion.

I suspect you're going to have a hard time figuring out how to arrange yourselves without becoming a Corporation of some State and still have a business model that sustains sufficient quality assurance and customer support to make Dark Wallet a success.

PS: I'm really happy to see other implementations happening!  Diversity is great!

PPS: y'all should give the Foundation at least a LITTLE bit of credit for funding CoinPunk...

[genjix]

Gavin can you explain this email from a journalist friend that he sent me:

"Just got a call from the bitcoin foundation. They wouldn't go on the record to comment on the article but just kept telling me "off the record" that you lot have no credibility and that a much better story is some venture capitalist yesterday investing $9m in bitcoin..."

and are you going to put me back on the security mailing list after you took me off. And you should stop telling people I'm not a Bitcoin developer. And also list libbitcoin on your blog post. Also you can stop ignoring my emails, and invite me into the protocol discussions. Thanks. The door is open, the choice is yours.

It's been 3+ years and I think the treatment from you, Mike, .et al has been downright cuntish at times.

[genjix]

We are providing an alternative. With 1% of the BF resources, we will do 10x more development and continue serving the community. Free market ftw.

[Gavin Andresen]

RE: bitcoin-security mailing list:  bottom line is I don't trust you. I think you have made irresponsible decisions in the past, and I don't trust that you would handle sensitive security issues responsibly.  Happily there have been approximately zero cross-implementation security issues in the last six months, so it is more of a theoretical issue that you're not on the list....

RE: foundation phone call:  I personally agree that fundraising for a vaporware wallet is less newsworthy than a 9 million dollar reputable VC investment.

RE: libbitcoin: when there is significant software using it and it has been "battle tested" a bit I'd be happy to mention it. But last I heard even Intersango was not using it because it was too slow/immature.

[genjix]

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=204 - the projects there were incomplete implementations and mostly recent.

Truth is that there are development decisions happening behind closed doors that me, other developers and the community are not privy to. And this places the class of developers (not your friends) at a disadvantage due to institutionalised structures imposed on bitcoin development. This is why I believe in a diversified software ecosystem with no single party having power over development decisions - it is a process that can be corrupted by personal preference and favoritism.

Also about libbitcoin's quality: http://libbitcoin.dyne.org/doc/ - any objective developer is open to review the fundamentals.

[moneyboss]

the idea is pretty stupid if you ask me.