GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer

[BitAddict]

Pray for these guys not dumping any time soon before a big rally.

According to the latest newsletter, nobody can sell from the BIT due to issues with the SEC.

Yep, I have been reading that for a while. Do you have a source or link to that newsletter that confirm it?

[JorgeStolfi]

Pray for these guys not dumping any time soon before a big rally.

According to the latest newsletter, nobody can sell from the BIT due to issues with the SEC.

Yep, I have been reading that for a while. Do you have a source or link to that newsletter that confirm it?

Interesting. From what others have written, I understand that "sell from the BIT" means "liquidating their shares", correct?

That reads like Stage 1 in the Karpelès Scale.

[jamesg]

Yep, I have been reading that for a while. Do you have a source or link to that newsletter that confirm it?

All of the official updates sent out have the receivers name, email and date printed on the background of the document.

Participants have signed certain agreements so that is why you are not seeing "official" memos scanned and shown on imgur or scribd.

[JorgeStolfi]

All of the official updates sent out have the receivers name, email and date printed on the background of the document.
Participants have signed certain agreements so that is why you are not seeing "official" memos scanned and shown on imgur or scribd.

Ah, thanks!

[BitAddict]

Yep, I have been reading that for a while. Do you have a source or link to that newsletter that confirm it?

All of the official updates sent out have the receivers name, email and date printed on the background of the document.

Participants have signed certain agreements so that is why you are not seeing "official" memos scanned and shown on imgur or scribd.

Cool to know about it!

Thanks for the info

[gog1]

not much buying lately from these guys - probably a holiday thing, but will be interesting to see if it picks up again after the new year

[BitAddict]

not much buying lately from these guys - probably a holiday thing, but will be interesting to see if it picks up again after the new year

Holidays, plus they got loaded in the 50k FBI auction (it doesn't count for the Fund, though), plus they like to buy everytime price starts to go up, not when price goes down.

[gog1]

not much buying lately from these guys - probably a holiday thing, but will be interesting to see if it picks up again after the new year

Holidays, plus they got loaded in the 50k FBI auction (it doesn't count for the Fund, though), plus they like to buy everytime price starts to go up, not when price goes down.

I thought the FBI coin is bought by another group related to second market but not bitcoin investment trust.

Base on the NAV and holdings, it doesn`t look like they are the one who won the auction

[BitAddict]

not much buying lately from these guys - probably a holiday thing, but will be interesting to see if it picks up again after the new year

Holidays, plus they got loaded in the 50k FBI auction (it doesn't count for the Fund, though), plus they like to buy everytime price starts to go up, not when price goes down.

I thought the FBI coin is bought by another group related to second market but not bitcoin investment trust.

Base on the NAV and holdings, it doesn`t look like they are the one who won the auction

Indeed, you are right. That's exactly what I was pointing.
That coins are not hold in NAV, but buyers are probably the same. In the FBI auction buying group owners hold their own bitcoins, they pay less fees and they probably paid below market price. That's why no one bought in this Fund after that auction, they got fully loaded for a while.

[screwUdriver]

not much buying lately from these guys - probably a holiday thing, but will be interesting to see if it picks up again after the new year

Holidays, plus they got loaded in the 50k FBI auction (it doesn't count for the Fund, though), plus they like to buy everytime price starts to go up, not when price goes down.

This is interesting. The 2nd market BIT is generally a very large whale. When the price is increasing their investors will buy more, causing additional upwards price pressure

[JorgeStolfi]

The 2nd market BIT is generally a very large whale. When the price is increasing their investors will buy more, causing additional upwards price pressure

Given the rumors that investors cannot liquidate even after the 6-month lock-in period (see previous posts), the disastrous performance of the fund this year, and the continuing lack of the long-overdue open market for their shares,  I really do not see why someone would invest in this fund.

Indeed, those rumors must be true, because otherwise investors should be liquidating in droves.

[jl2012]

The 2nd market BIT is generally a very large whale. When the price is increasing their investors will buy more, causing additional upwards price pressure

Given the rumors that investors cannot liquidate even after the 6-month lock-in period (see previous posts), the disastrous performance of the fund this year, and the continuing lack of the long-overdue open market for their shares,  I really do not see why someone would invest in this fund.

Are you sure? Just a month ago, someone spent $10M in this fund

[JorgeStolfi]

The 2nd market BIT is generally a very large whale. When the price is increasing their investors will buy more, causing additional upwards price pressure

Given the rumors that investors cannot liquidate even after the 6-month lock-in period (see previous posts), the disastrous performance of the fund this year, and the continuing lack of the long-overdue open market for their shares,  I really do not see why someone would invest in this fund.

Are you sure? Just a month ago, someone spent $10M in this fund

I saw that, and I still can't see why someone would do it.

[jl2012]

The 2nd market BIT is generally a very large whale. When the price is increasing their investors will buy more, causing additional upwards price pressure

Given the rumors that investors cannot liquidate even after the 6-month lock-in period (see previous posts), the disastrous performance of the fund this year, and the continuing lack of the long-overdue open market for their shares,  I really do not see why someone would invest in this fund.

Are you sure? Just a month ago, someone spent $10M in this fund

I saw that, and I still can't see why someone would do it.

Many people, like you, could't see why someone would buy bitcoin when it dropped from $32 to $2. They said bitcoin was a complete failure. Today, even with the "disastrous performance" in 2014, bitcoin is still 150x better than the $2 bottom.

[JorgeStolfi]

The 2nd market BIT is generally a very large whale. When the price is increasing their investors will buy more, causing additional upwards price pressure

Given the rumors that investors cannot liquidate even after the 6-month lock-in period (see previous posts), the disastrous performance of the fund this year, and the continuing lack of the long-overdue open market for their shares,  I really do not see why someone would invest in this fund.

Are you sure? Just a month ago, someone spent $10M in this fund

I saw that, and I still can't see why someone would do it.

Many people, like you, could't see why someone would buy bitcoin when it dropped from $32 to $2. They said bitcoin was a complete failure. Today, even with the "disastrous performance" in 2014, bitcoin is still 150x better than the $2 bottom.

OK, ignore the "disastrous performance" if you will.  There is still the fees, failed promises, and (apparently) having to watch the share value drop without being able to take the money out.  Now, remind me, what were the advantages of buying fund shares instead of buying bitcoins directly?

[jamesg]

OK, ignore the "disastrous performance" if you will.  There is still the fees, failed promises, and (apparently) having to watch the share value drop without being able to take the money out.  Now, remind me, what were the advantages of buying fund shares instead of buying bitcoins directly?

Your mother or grandmother can own Bitcoin without needing to read the forums for three weeks to figure out security.

Not everyone who invests in Bitcoin has a horizon of 60 days to get rich.

[JayJuanGee]

OK, ignore the "disastrous performance" if you will.  There is still the fees, failed promises, and (apparently) having to watch the share value drop without being able to take the money out.  Now, remind me, what were the advantages of buying fund shares instead of buying bitcoins directly?

Your mother or grandmother can own Bitcoin without needing to read the forums for three weeks to figure out security.

Not everyone who invests in Bitcoin has a horizon of 60 days to get rich.

Isn't it true that the investment fund is aimed more at larger players and potentially institutional investors that may want legitimacy.. that is why second market has minimums that are beyond what individual investors would seek.

In other words, second market is NOT really aimed at mom or grandma.

[Silverspoon]

OK, ignore the "disastrous performance" if you will.  There is still the fees, failed promises, and (apparently) having to watch the share value drop without being able to take the money out.  Now, remind me, what were the advantages of buying fund shares instead of buying bitcoins directly?

Your mother or grandmother can own Bitcoin without needing to read the forums for three weeks to figure out security.

Not everyone who invests in Bitcoin has a horizon of 60 days to get rich.

Why would my mother want to invest in a tanking currency through a proxy (which also stops her from selling it)?
Mom may have her issues, but she ain't stupid

[JorgeStolfi]

OK, ignore the "disastrous performance" if you will.  There is still the fees, failed promises, and (apparently) having to watch the share value drop without being able to take the money out.  Now, remind me, what were the advantages of buying fund shares instead of buying bitcoins directly?

Your mother or grandmother can own Bitcoin without needing to read the forums for three weeks to figure out security.
Not everyone who invests in Bitcoin has a horizon of 60 days to get rich.

Well, seen from the outside, SMBIT is starting to look more risky than buying bitcoins at Bitstamp and keeping them there.  At least, Bitstamp has no lock-in period and has a handy open market in-house.

Investors who bought SMBIT shares in September 2013, at 13 $/share, and are firm believers in the long-range success of BTC, may not be bothered by those problems.  But I am trying to imagine someone who invested in January at 90$, could have liquidated in July at 60$, but has been forced to hold and now sees the shares worth only 30$.  I can't believe that all of those January investors are hold-at-any-cost types. 

I wonder if these "problems with the SEC" are blocking withdrawals also from the other funds (PBP, Exante, etc.)

[screwUdriver]

OK, ignore the "disastrous performance" if you will.  There is still the fees, failed promises, and (apparently) having to watch the share value drop without being able to take the money out.  Now, remind me, what were the advantages of buying fund shares instead of buying bitcoins directly?

Your mother or grandmother can own Bitcoin without needing to read the forums for three weeks to figure out security.
Not everyone who invests in Bitcoin has a horizon of 60 days to get rich.

Well, seen from the outside, SMBIT is starting to look more risky than buying bitcoins at Bitstamp and keeping them there.  At least, Bitstamp has no lock-in period and has a handy open market in-house.

Investors who bought SMBIT shares in September 2013, at 13 $/share, and are firm believers in the long-range success of BTC, may not be bothered by those problems.  But I am trying to imagine someone who invested in January at 90$, could have liquidated in July at 60$, but has been forced to hold and now sees the shares worth only 30$.  I can't believe that all of those January investors are hold-at-any-cost types. 

I wonder if these "problems with the SEC" are blocking withdrawals also from the other funds (PBP, Exante, etc.)

I would say that second market is somewhat more secure then most exchanges (bitstamp included). I imagine that second market is able to keep the vast majority of their bitcoin in cold storage which reduces the chances of theft, the rate that bitcoin can be purchased or sold is much less then an exchange which reduces the risk of it getting hacked or messing up customer accounts. It is also much less likely to run away with customer money