Alley
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
|
 |
March 26, 2015, 08:39:39 PM |
|
Looks like a new bid is up for 100 shares for $50 per share. So whoever it is is valueing bitcoins at $500 each? If nobody is selling this is pretty bullish.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
|
marcus_of_augustus
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2348
Eadem mutata resurgo
|
|
March 26, 2015, 08:39:48 PM |
|
snip ... have your shares electronically transferred via Direct Registration System (DRS) ... should have used the blockchain for clearing and settlement ...?? |
|
|
|
|
gotmilk_
|
|
March 26, 2015, 08:45:01 PM |
|
Those investors who bought in sub 400$ and are already able to sell can now make some money... They can sell 50$ per share (100 shares bid) and buy new shares (as btc buyer at BIT) at current price  |
|
|
|
|
|
Roy Badami
|
|
March 26, 2015, 08:49:10 PM |
|
Or to put it another way - sure, the Authorized Participants (or 'hierarchy of brokers', as you put it) are responsible for buying BTC to create shares. But SecondMarket is a registered broker-dealer - and who's to say it isn't still the only broker participating in this way?
|
|
|
|
|
|
JorgeStolfi
|
|
March 26, 2015, 09:57:20 PM |
|
Oh boy. I imagine that the BIT investors too must be thoroughly confused by the changes. They bought shares from SecondMarket with dollars, but now they have to understand this complicated structure of 6-7 companies with 3-4 different roles if they want to trade them. They may more easily understand Satoshi's paper than the material put out by SecondMarket and Greyscale to "explain" how the fund now works...  |
Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
|
|
|
Biodom
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3752
Merit: 3850
|
|
March 26, 2015, 10:16:49 PM
Last edit: March 26, 2015, 10:31:37 PM by Biodom |
|
Those investors who bought in sub 400$ and are already able to sell can now make some money... They can sell 50$ per share (100 shares bid) and buy new shares (as btc buyer at BIT) at current price it is entirely possible that BIT investors were those who shorted bitcoin at least from the recent $300 to $240 yesterday when someone covered a bunch. They (BIT investors) can now buy BTC cheap on coinbase exchange, then "release" their bitcoins in BIT, creating a "loss" (if they bought higher), but having the same amounts of bitcoins as before. |
|
|
|
|
|
Roy Badami
|
|
March 26, 2015, 10:20:24 PM |
|
Oh boy. I imagine that the BIT investors too must be thoroughly confused by the changes. They bought shares from SecondMarket with dollars, but now they have to understand this complicated structure of 6-7 companies with 3-4 different roles if they want to trade them. They may more easily understand Satoshi's paper than the material put out by SecondMarket and Greyscale to "explain" how the fund now works... They don't have to understand the structure, they can simply sell their shares on the OTC via any broker (provided they've held them for at least 12 months). |
|
|
|
|
|
gotmilk_
|
|
March 26, 2015, 10:32:40 PM |
|
Those investors who bought in sub 400$ and are already able to sell can now make some money... They can sell 50$ per share (100 shares bid) and buy new shares (as btc buyer at BIT) at current price it is entirely possible that BIT investors were the one who shorted bitcoin at least from the recent $300 to $240 yesterday when someone covered a bunch. They (BIT investors) can now buy BTC cheap on coinbase exchange, then "release" their bitcoins in BIT, creating a "loss" (if they bought higher), but having the same amounts of bitcoins as before. If you look on the first page you can see that BIT btc holdings didn't change much lately. Oh boy. I imagine that the BIT investors too must be thoroughly confused by the changes. They bought shares from SecondMarket with dollars, but now they have to understand this complicated structure of 6-7 companies with 3-4 different roles if they want to trade them. They may more easily understand Satoshi's paper than the material put out by SecondMarket and Greyscale to "explain" how the fund now works... You really need to check how OTC market is working. |
|
|
|
|
|
Roy Badami
|
|
March 26, 2015, 10:44:51 PM |
|
The accredited investors that BIT has hitherto been limited to will either (a) have little difficulty understanding the structure or (b) engage the services of an investment professional to explain it to them them.
Also, bear in mind that these are regulatory legal documents you're reading - I'm sure the customer facing communications that investors receive from SecondMarket and/or Grayscale are rather more user-friendly!
roy
|
|
|
|
|
Biodom
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3752
Merit: 3850
|
|
March 26, 2015, 11:15:53 PM |
|
Those investors who bought in sub 400$ and are already able to sell can now make some money... They can sell 50$ per share (100 shares bid) and buy new shares (as btc buyer at BIT) at current price it is entirely possible that BIT investors were the one who shorted bitcoin at least from the recent $300 to $240 yesterday when someone covered a bunch. They (BIT investors) can now buy BTC cheap on coinbase exchange, then "release" their bitcoins in BIT, creating a "loss" (if they bought higher), but having the same amounts of bitcoins as before. If you look on the first page you can see that BIT btc holdings didn't change much lately. Not yet, of course. They had a losing position in BIT, hence why not short "real bitcoin" en masse (I assume at least from $300 a few days ago once they got a whiff of incoming approval). Now they can cover short profitably and even buy the equivalent of their bitcoin holdings in BIT/Second market/greyscale, THEN sell their bitcoins in BIT (even at the loss). The result: same number of bitcoins as before (now with $240-251 cost basis, assuming that they started buying yesterday) PLUS, once they liquidate bitcoin that they bought at higher prices, they would have losses that they could apply to gains in other assets. |
|
|
|
|
|
JorgeStolfi
|
|
March 27, 2015, 12:10:59 AM |
|
The accredited investors that BIT has hitherto been limited to will either (a) have little difficulty understanding the structure or (b) engage the services of an investment professional to explain it to them them.
Also, bear in mind that these are regulatory legal documents you're reading - I'm sure the customer facing communications that investors receive from SecondMarket and/or Grayscale are rather more user-friendly!
AFAIK, "accredited investors" are simply people who can demonstrate to have enough money; not necessarily experienced investors. They now have to deal with a broker, and understand how the OTC work to understand why the price that they pay to the broker is neither the market price of 0.1 BTC nor the price listed on the OTCQX page... As for BIT's "customer facing communication", the samples I have seen do not seem much better. At least the financial report is supposed to spell out all the details... Anyway, good luck to the investors... |
Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
|
|
|
|
JorgeStolfi
|
|
March 27, 2015, 12:20:15 AM |
|
Someone asked about short selling; perhaps this entry from the OTCQX Learn/FAQ page is relevant: Is short selling allowed for OTCQX, OTCQB and OTC Pink securities?
Yes – short selling is allowed for OTCQX, OTCQB and OTC Pink securities. You may find the short interest (amount of shares sold short) for specific securities by selecting the “Short Sale” tab within the Quote page or by going to the Short Sales Data page.
|
Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
|
|
|
|
Cconvert2G36
|
|
March 27, 2015, 12:40:32 AM |
|
Someone asked about short selling; perhaps this entry from the OTCQX Learn/FAQ page is relevant: Is short selling allowed for OTCQX, OTCQB and OTC Pink securities?
Yes – short selling is allowed for OTCQX, OTCQB and OTC Pink securities. You may find the short interest (amount of shares sold short) for specific securities by selecting the “Short Sale” tab within the Quote page or by going to the Short Sales Data page.
Short selling = normal market function Naked short selling = not so much |
|
|
|
|
|
chriswen
|
|
March 27, 2015, 02:11:25 AM |
|
Our transfer agent, Continental Stock Transfer & Trust, will be providing each eligible shareholder a share ownership statement. You will receive an e-mail from us in the coming days with a copy of this statement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
jehst
|
|
March 27, 2015, 02:38:34 AM |
|
So BIT started taking money in October 2013 right? And BIT investments made up until March 2014 are eligible for sale now, right? The problem for GBTC buyers is that the BTC price quickly skyrocketed after October 2013. There may not be much supply anywhere below a $600/BTC rate unless people were patient enough to lockup $25,000+ USD for over a year only to sell now at a loss.
Wrong.
Even if the BIT investors bought BTC at a $1000/BTC rate, they can sell through GBTC at a small premium (e.g. 5%) and immediately buy BTC. Then they will increase their bitcoin holdings without risk. Every single eligible holder will have an incentive to sell as long as demand is higher than supply (creating a premium). The market is waiting to see if demand is, in fact, higher than supply.
|
Year 2021
Bitcoin Supply: ~90% mined
Supply Inflation: <1.8%
|
|
|
|
twiifm
|
|
March 27, 2015, 02:57:28 AM |
|
So BIT started taking money in October 2013 right? And BIT investments made up until March 2014 are eligible for sale now, right? The problem for GBTC buyers is that the BTC price quickly skyrocketed after October 2013. There may not be much supply anywhere below a $600/BTC rate unless people were patient enough to lockup $25,000+ USD for over a year only to sell now at a loss.
Wrong.
Even if the BIT investors bought BTC at a $1000/BTC rate, they can sell through GBTC at a small premium (e.g. 5%) and immediately buy BTC. Then they will increase their bitcoin holdings without risk. Every single eligible holder will have an incentive to sell as long as demand is higher than supply (creating a premium). The market is waiting to see if demand is, in fact, higher than supply.
You telling me they can sell @ $1000 even though spot price is $250? Yeah right. No risk my ass |
|
|
|
|
|
jehst
|
|
March 27, 2015, 06:09:50 AM |
|
So BIT started taking money in October 2013 right? And BIT investments made up until March 2014 are eligible for sale now, right? The problem for GBTC buyers is that the BTC price quickly skyrocketed after October 2013. There may not be much supply anywhere below a $600/BTC rate unless people were patient enough to lockup $25,000+ USD for over a year only to sell now at a loss.
Wrong.
Even if the BIT investors bought BTC at a $1000/BTC rate, they can sell through GBTC at a small premium (e.g. 5%) and immediately buy BTC. Then they will increase their bitcoin holdings without risk. Every single eligible holder will have an incentive to sell as long as demand is higher than supply (creating a premium). The market is waiting to see if demand is, in fact, higher than supply.
You telling me they can sell @ $1000 even though spot price is $250? Yeah right. No risk my ass Whoops. I meant $50. The number is irrelevant actually. |
Year 2021
Bitcoin Supply: ~90% mined
Supply Inflation: <1.8%
|
|
|
|
chriswen
|
|
March 29, 2015, 07:08:42 PM |
|
I'm looking for confirmation.
Someone said that the bids you see are actually units. 1 unit representing 100 shares or 10 btc. So a bid of 100 units would be 1000 btc.
|
|
|
|
|
Chef Ramsay
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1001
|
|
March 29, 2015, 07:16:20 PM |
|
I'm looking for confirmation.
Someone said that the bids you see are actually units. 1 unit representing 100 shares or 10 btc. So a bid of 100 units would be 1000 btc.
Pretty sure the unit increments are .1 btc per share. So, the latest bid of 35.5 w/ 100 is effectively buying (or hoping to) 10 coins at $355 a piece |
|
|
|
|
|
chriswen
|
|
March 29, 2015, 07:23:46 PM |
|
I'm looking for confirmation.
Someone said that the bids you see are actually units. 1 unit representing 100 shares or 10 btc. So a bid of 100 units would be 1000 btc.
Pretty sure the unit increments are .1 btc per share. So, the latest bid of 35.5 w/ 100 is effectively buying (or hoping to) 10 coins at $355 a piece I know its 0.1 btc per share. I'm wondering whether 1 share is equal to 1 unit on the orderbook. |
|
|
|
|
|
