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Author Topic: Trust No One  (Read 160515 times)
rottenchris
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April 08, 2013, 02:00:00 PM
 #1881

Great advise!
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dmphotog
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April 08, 2013, 03:18:35 PM
 #1882

Thanks for the heads up!
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April 08, 2013, 03:57:33 PM
 #1883

so much help.
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April 08, 2013, 06:09:01 PM
 #1884

Being a paranoid doesn't mean that they are not really after your coins  Cool
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April 08, 2013, 09:39:29 PM
 #1885

Thanks.
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April 09, 2013, 12:20:06 AM
 #1886

1st thing they learn you if you study economics: trust noone with you're money
2nd thing they learn you if you study economics: the market has no ethics



Seriously. Don't trust the exchanges, don't trust online wallet services, don't trust your anti-virus software, and don't trust anybody online.

If you absolutely must trust someone with your bitcoins, for the love, choose carefully!

  • Do you know their full name?
  • Do you know where they are located?
  • Have they demonstrated trustworthiness in the past?
  • Are they asking you to trust them? (red flag)
  • Do they have insurance?

Insurance? Impossible, you say. Not so!

When I needed people to trust me to hold bitcoins for a contest, I deposited 50 bitcoins as a bond with a well-respected forum member, so that even if I did something stupid and lost people's money, they would still be reimbursed. You can read about it here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10008.0

Consider carefully who you will trust. With bitcoins, elaborate scams may be profitable. For instance, someone may develop trust for their user name over many months with small transactions on this forum, then take advantage of that trust to make off with a lot of money. Such a scam would only be worth doing on this forum. No other forum in the world would be worth the effort.

If you want someone to hold your bitcoins for you, there are NO online services that have the transparency and security to make me comfortable using them for storing bitcoins for more than a short time in small amounts. The only way to do it is like I did - choose someone whom you believe to be trustworthy, and approach them. If they approach you, or in any way say or insinuate that they are a trustworthy person to hold your coins, STAY AWAY.

If you are thinking that I might not be trustworthy, since I am writing this post about the issue, you are approaching the appropriate level of paranoia.

If you want to store your bitcoins with maximum security, there are lots of resources about how to do it, such as this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet

Here's my summary:

1. Put all your coins in a new wallet that has never connected to the network
2. Encrypt that wallet with the maximum security you can find, using the most secure password you can keep track of
3. Delete the plaintext wallet, and distribute the encrypted wallet to every piece of physical media you own, store it online, and send it to several people you trust

Don't think you can generate and remember a secure enough password? Create a super-long password, and store clues to help you remember it. For instance, your password clue file might say:

My standard password + My throwaway password (backwards, all caps) + &#$%@ + First two sentences of first paragraph of page 19 of my favorite book (include all capitalization and punctuation) + My wife's mother's middle name + My son's favorite superhero + My favorite number times 8734 + food my wife hates (backwards, all caps) + 9-digit number stored with my paper will + 10-character password stored in my safety deposit box + . . . .

You can go on in this way to create as long a password as you want. Store this password clue file with your encrypted wallet, and optionally encrypt both with a simple standard password to keep out snoopers.

In this way, not only can you recover your coins from your "savings account" at a later date, if you get hit by a chicken truck tomorrow and die, your loved ones can probably piece together your password and recover the coins too (better make sure you trust them, and that between them they have or can get the answers to those clues).

I recommend that you practice your wallet encryption and recovery a few times with a small number of coins, until you are very comfortable with the process before you try it with the bulk of your savings.

And remember, this is how most bitcoins services get started:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lgm4poF3JWE/TgsHwby-BlI/AAAAAAAADwQ/twan94HT6p4/020.jpg

Comic from: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=13903.0
GoldBitco.in
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April 09, 2013, 12:28:51 AM
 #1887

Solid advice.  Thanks!
nfurno
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April 09, 2013, 01:10:14 AM
 #1888

Seriously. Don't trust the exchanges, don't trust online wallet services, don't trust your anti-virus software, and don't trust anybody online.

If you absolutely must trust someone with your bitcoins, for the love, choose carefully!

  • Do you know their full name?
  • Do you know where they are located?
  • Have they demonstrated trustworthiness in the past?
  • Are they asking you to trust them? (red flag)
  • Do they have insurance?

Insurance? Impossible, you say. Not so!

When I needed people to trust me to hold bitcoins for a contest, I deposited 50 bitcoins as a bond with a well-respected forum member, so that even if I did something stupid and lost people's money, they would still be reimbursed. You can read about it here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10008.0

Consider carefully who you will trust. With bitcoins, elaborate scams may be profitable. For instance, someone may develop trust for their user name over many months with small transactions on this forum, then take advantage of that trust to make off with a lot of money. Such a scam would only be worth doing on this forum. No other forum in the world would be worth the effort.

If you want someone to hold your bitcoins for you, there are NO online services that have the transparency and security to make me comfortable using them for storing bitcoins for more than a short time in small amounts. The only way to do it is like I did - choose someone whom you believe to be trustworthy, and approach them. If they approach you, or in any way say or insinuate that they are a trustworthy person to hold your coins, STAY AWAY.

If you are thinking that I might not be trustworthy, since I am writing this post about the issue, you are approaching the appropriate level of paranoia.

If you want to store your bitcoins with maximum security, there are lots of resources about how to do it, such as this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet

Here's my summary:

1. Put all your coins in a new wallet that has never connected to the network
2. Encrypt that wallet with the maximum security you can find, using the most secure password you can keep track of
3. Delete the plaintext wallet, and distribute the encrypted wallet to every piece of physical media you own, store it online, and send it to several people you trust

Don't think you can generate and remember a secure enough password? Create a super-long password, and store clues to help you remember it. For instance, your password clue file might say:

My standard password + My throwaway password (backwards, all caps) + &#$%@ + First two sentences of first paragraph of page 19 of my favorite book (include all capitalization and punctuation) + My wife's mother's middle name + My son's favorite superhero + My favorite number times 8734 + food my wife hates (backwards, all caps) + 9-digit number stored with my paper will + 10-character password stored in my safety deposit box + . . . .

You can go on in this way to create as long a password as you want. Store this password clue file with your encrypted wallet, and optionally encrypt both with a simple standard password to keep out snoopers.

In this way, not only can you recover your coins from your "savings account" at a later date, if you get hit by a chicken truck tomorrow and die, your loved ones can probably piece together your password and recover the coins too (better make sure you trust them, and that between them they have or can get the answers to those clues).

I recommend that you practice your wallet encryption and recovery a few times with a small number of coins, until you are very comfortable with the process before you try it with the bulk of your savings.

And remember, this is how most bitcoins services get started:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lgm4poF3JWE/TgsHwby-BlI/AAAAAAAADwQ/twan94HT6p4/020.jpg

Comic from: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=13903.0

Totally agree, never send btc you can't stand to lose.
ruecanonrails
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April 09, 2013, 01:33:36 AM
 #1889

The truth is out there.

Trust no one.


Thought this would have been somewhat common knowledge, read into everything you do. Don't keep your money in banks, keep it under you mattress protected it with your shotgun.
ventrabit
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April 09, 2013, 03:02:40 AM
 #1890

I get it but you need to have some trust when a noob otherwise one would just sit and wonder.

The best way to learn is to play and to play you must trust. If you don't want to call it trust call it a gamble.

Example: I don't trust you at blah.com but I will take a gamble and hopefully develop trust and get to know you/system.

BUT the rule with gambling is the same as investing is do not gamble/invest more than you can afford to lose.

I've trusted/gambled for 18 months and wow am I happy I did.
cs54
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April 09, 2013, 03:33:36 AM
 #1891

Thank you for this summary!
Prelude
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April 09, 2013, 05:24:44 AM
 #1892

Great read, OP. Will now sift through this huge thread!
colonelmustard
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April 09, 2013, 08:09:59 AM
 #1893

This is a really great thread with loads of solid advise. Thanks for the read. Wish there was a way to upvote. Smiley
kaboom
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April 09, 2013, 11:38:39 AM
 #1894

Very informative. Thanks.
culexevilman
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Bitcoin is too valuable to be used as a currency


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April 09, 2013, 12:16:45 PM
 #1895

Same principles I had stuck with me my entire life, good advice for new BTCers.
deadweasel
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April 09, 2013, 12:18:03 PM
 #1896

Same principles I had stuck with me my entire life, good advice for new BTCers.

Something about BTC makes people forget previous experience.  Try to keep it with you. 

Happy Trails!

mutikainen
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April 09, 2013, 12:46:04 PM
 #1897

Great advise, thanks!
patricktim
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April 09, 2013, 01:01:17 PM
 #1898

Good info about Bitcoin knowledge.

splnkr
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April 09, 2013, 01:25:17 PM
 #1899

If there's one thing blocking widespread adoption, it's this.
cubism4nerds
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April 09, 2013, 02:35:53 PM
 #1900

Security is hard to achieve...Keep it on your computer, offline.

Or on paper!
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